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For those who hate Headbanger's Ball...

Old 06-03-04, 01:31 AM
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For those who hate Headbanger's Ball...

perhaps you might enjoy Metal Mania on VH1 classic. If I remember correctly, when I posted one of the newer Headbanger's Ball playlists, a lot of folks just didn't like the newer style of metal. Well, then hopefully you were receiving VH1 Classic this last Sunday. They played this show for hours in a row. Here's the playlist (and a few other things) as best as I could document them: NOTE: it's only part 1, as this was MUCH longer than expected

-Metallica: "Sanitarium"
-Motley Crue: "Wild Side"
Discussion: importance of bass players to the band...Dio's bassist split...are bassists expendable? What if they are the vocalist, or major contributors to the band? Gene Simmons (KISS)? Geddy Lee (Rush)? Steve Harris (Iron Maiden)? Lemmy (Motorhead)? Les Claypool (Primus)? Ian Hill (Judas Priest founder)? Geezer Butler? Rudy Sarzo?
-Dio: "Rainbow In The Dark"
-Skid Row: "I Remember You" (but I don't remember this song...)
-Heavy Bones: "4:am T.M." (who?!?!?)
-Alice Cooper: "Poison"
-Guns 'N Roses: "Don't Cry"
Topic: Hybrid of metal and rap...unfairly attributed to Aerosmith and Run DMC, but actually belongs to Anthrax...originally with "I'm The Man" and later teaming with Public Enemy for "Bring The Noise"
-Anthrax: "Bring The Noise"
-Biohazard: "Punishment"
-Megadeth: "Sweating Bullets"
-Metallica: "Nothing Else Matters"
-Nuclear Assault: "Brain Washed"
-Celtic Frost: "Cherry Orchards" (is this "typical" Celtic Frost?)
-Hear 'N' Aid: "We're Stars" (holy crap...the we are the world of 80's metal?!?)
-Great White: "Once Bitten, Twice Shy"
Topic: "Image" of metal...one person says "big difference between heavy metal and hard rock (Warrant, Poison)...one being that hard rock was more image oriented" some bands had their image, and they become trapped by it. As many bands became more glam, their songs became more glam oriented, unlike Twisted Sister who despite the glam image, still had "metal songs". No surprise I guess, being that one of the three "panelists" is Dee Snider.
-Twisted Sister: "I Wanna Rock"
-Slaughter: "Up All Night"
-Ratt: "Slip Of The Lip"
-Warrant: "Cherry Pie"
Topic: Heavy metal lyrics...back in early 80's...PMRC targeting WASP, Dee Snider defending lyrics...some bands started intentionally putting explicit lyrics/topics just to get attention...like "F*** Like A Beast"...and how PMRC drew attention to relatively unknown bands for their lyrics, like The Mentors.
-WASP: "I Wanna Be Somebody"
-Overkill: "Elimination"
-Danzig: "Dirty Black Summer"
-Lita Ford: "Kiss Me Deadly" (why not the song with Ozzy?...ehh who cares...she's wearing a cool aerobics outfit with a cool thong-effect going on in back!)
-Winger: "Hungry"
Topic: Is it better to have a long sustained career (like Overkill...who are still around, still doing respectable without ever hitting it huge), or be around for a while, have a big album (or two), and then sort of never repeat that success? Do bands who have the consistent following it, do they make a conscious choice to do that (Dee Snider says any band that says they DID make a conscious choice to do that is lying). Slow burn, or shooting star?
-Overkill: "In Union We Stand"
-Anthrax: "Got the Time"
-Prong: "Prove You Wrong"
-Megadeth: "Foreclosure Of A Dream"
-------------------------------------
-Kix: "Get It While It's Hot"
-Iron Maiden: "Run To The Hills"
Topic: bands from 70's adapting to the "Hair Metal" look...KISS etc....big example: Whitesnake...lots of rocking albums in the 70's (popular everywhere but America apparently), and come the 80's the hair comes out and Tawny Kitaen is put in their videos. At one point they were putting different musicians in the video from those who were performing the actual music..."pretty" musicians. Other bands who were established in the 70's (and in their image)...like KISS who took off their make up. Even Ozzy had the poofy hair and eyeliner for an album or so (Shot In The Dark).
-Whitesnake: "Fool For Your Loving" (I ALMOST forgot that Steve Vai performed with this band for an album)
-Heaven: "Rock School" (who?!? singer looks like a cross between Steve Perry and Gerard Depardu)
-Dokken: "In My Dreams"
-Britny Fox: "Girlschool"
-Yngwie Malmsteen: "Heaven Tonight"
Topic: bands who reinvented themselves...Pantera (originally a product of the 80's hair metal/spandex band to one of the best 90's metal bands...an intentional change, or just influences of the time?), Accept and others...
-Pantera: "Walk"
-D.R.I.: "Suit And Tie Guy"
-Circus of Power: "Motor"
----------------------
-Metallica: "Enter Sandman"
-Judas Priest: "Breaking The Law"
Topic: Metal being a male dominated genre...how women are perceived in it...whether as dressing in metal videos or as performers, like Lita Ford...do they continue to perpetuate the myth...again like Lita Ford who end up "humping their guitars" etc. What about taking the "hot women in video" thing, and putting guitars in their hands to sell albums to the male audiences, like Vixen? Other female involved bands: Plasmatics, Femme Fatal, Hellion or Warlock/Doro Pesch?
-Wendy O. Williams: "Reform School Girls"
-Raging Slab: "Don't Dog Me"
-The Almighty: "Destroyed"
-Icon: "On Your Feet"
-Shotgun Messiah: "Shout It Out"
-Bang Tango: "Someone Like You"
Topic: the darker side of metal....the "satanic" how much of it was legit, and how much was just to get attention? Dee Snider says mostly it was just imagery, just putting pentagrams on there to scare the moms and dads. Black Sabbath? Iron Maiden ("Number Of The Beast")? Slayer (Satan Laughs As You Eternally Rot)? Kerry King says that it's just what metal's image is, the way it should be. One of the panelists even said that the lead singer from Deicide said that he didn't want to perform on Christmas eve, wanted to be with his family that eve. NOTE: he also has an upside down cross branded into his forehead.
-Slayer: "Seasons In The Abyss"
-Queensryche: "Silent Lucidity"
------------------------
-Dangerous Toys: "Teasing And Pleasing"
-Rock Goddess: "I Didn't Know I Loved You (Till I Saw You Rock N Roll)"
-Babylon A.D.: "Hammer Comes Down"
-Black Sabbath: "Paranoid"
Topic: Icons of Heavy Metal? Ozzy, is he a "founding father", and does he deserve the accolades? Bands since Sabbath have either been influenced by Sabbath (or Led Zeppelin), and bands of today are influenced by bands who are influenced by Sabbath/Zeppelin. Dee Snider says Ozzy gets too much credit, that there were 4 members to Sabbath, he doesn't write his own lyrics/music, but that what he DOES have is character/charisma. Singers ARE the face of the band...the front man...Alice Cooper, Marilyn Manson....ESPECIALLY when the band's name is the same as the singer's...
-Ozzy Osbourne: "Crazy Train"
-Loudness: "Let It Go"
-Europe: "Cherokee"
-Armored Saint: "Can U Deliver"
-Fifth Angel: "Time Will Tell"
-Badlands: "Winter's Call"
Topic: New Wave Of British Heavy Metal (NWOBHM): Iron Maiden, Def Leppard, Saxon, Motorhead...what was going on at that time period? It's a period that lasted only a short while, and very few of those bands are "viable" today, but they inspired a lot of future bands (like Metallica)
-Motorhead: "Ramones"
-House Of Lords: "Love Don't Lie"
-------------------
-David Lee Roth: "Crazy From The Heat"
-Firehouse: "Don't Treat Me Bad"
-Femme Fatale: "Falling In And Out Of Love"
-Scorpions: "Rock You Like A Hurricane"
Topic: "Prog Rock" one of the top: Dream Theater...are there too many sub-categories of rock/metal? Dee Snider says yes...that bands end up hating bands of this subgenre etc., it was hard enough of being metal v. the world without all the "in fighting"....one positive thing of the subgenres....is that fans will latch on to someone who is established in that subgenre, and stay with the band...so no radio single is required and they'll buy every album (and side projects).
-Dream Theater: "Pull Me Under"
-Rose Tattoo: "Scarred For Life"
-Joe Satriani: "Always With Me, Always With You"
-Grim Reaper: "See You In Hell"
-Warlock: "All We Are"
-Iron Maiden: "The Trooper"
Topic: Heavy metal's international appeal...Krokus from Switzerland, Loudness from Japan & Scorpions from Germany. That, and of course there are fans all over the world. Why does metal appeal worldwide? Teenage angst...identifying with the music...stuff that doesn't seem to happen with other genres like country-western (which, if being performed in Japan, is a novelty).
-Krokus: "Burning Up The Night"
-Tesla: "Hang Tough"
------------

Last edited by harpo787; 06-03-04 at 01:34 AM.
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Old 06-03-04, 06:37 AM
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When is is on again??

I want to see that Almighty video. I didn't know they were even known well enough over here to even show an Almighty video.
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Old 06-03-04, 07:03 AM
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I would love to see this show. There is some great stuff listed there, including some less obvious 80's classics.

Loudness: Let It Go
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Old 06-03-04, 09:28 AM
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Metal Mania is great. I put it on every chance I get. I missed the marathon unfortunately.

Discussion: importance of bass players to the band...Dio's bassist split...are bassists expendable? What if they are the vocalist, or major contributors to the band? Gene Simmons (KISS)? Geddy Lee (Rush)? Steve Harris (Iron Maiden)? Lemmy (Motorhead)? Les Claypool (Primus)? Ian Hill (Judas Priest founder)? Geezer Butler? Rudy Sarzo?
Most times bass players, rhythym guitarists, and drummers are expendable. Lead guitar & vocals usually define how any band will sound. Take one of them away and you're almost always gonna have a totally different sound.
Topic: Hybrid of metal and rap...unfairly attributed to Aerosmith and Run DMC, but actually belongs to Anthrax...originally with "I'm The Man" and later teaming with Public Enemy for "Bring The Noise"
Run DMC always rapped over rock/metal beats. The Run DMC thing came out, what, about 84? I don't think Anthrax's "I'm The Man" came out until about 86. Either way, both RunDMC & Anthrax had love for both styles of music and always expressed that.
Topic: "Image" of metal...one person says "big difference between heavy metal and hard rock (Warrant, Poison)...one being that hard rock was more image oriented" some bands had their image, and they become trapped by it. As many bands became more glam, their songs became more glam oriented, unlike Twisted Sister who despite the glam image, still had "metal songs". No surprise I guess, being that one of the three "panelists" is Dee Snider.
Both the same damn thing. Even back then GLAM was considered Metal, although it was turned into the acronym Gay LA Metal. Want proof? Just watch Metallica's "Cliff "em All". The biggest difference was that some bands relied & cared more about their image than the music. And it went both ways. Some of the "hardest" metal bands were just as silly with their image as some of the "poppier" bands were with theirs.
Topic: Heavy metal lyrics...back in early 80's...PMRC targeting WASP, Dee Snider defending lyrics...some bands started intentionally putting explicit lyrics/topics just to get attention...like "F*** Like A Beast"...and how PMRC drew attention to relatively unknown bands for their lyrics, like The Mentors.
If the record didn't get stickered it was considered too soft! Kinda crappy, but that's what happened after the PMRC screwup. The result of the PMRC was exactly the opposite of what they intended.
Topic: Is it better to have a long sustained career (like Overkill...who are still around, still doing respectable without ever hitting it huge), or be around for a while, have a big album (or two), and then sort of never repeat that success? Do bands who have the consistent following it, do they make a conscious choice to do that (Dee Snider says any band that says they DID make a conscious choice to do that is lying). Slow burn, or shooting star?
Agree with Dee on this one. Any band that signs with a major label wants to have huge success.
Topic: bands from 70's adapting to the "Hair Metal" look...KISS etc....big example: Whitesnake...lots of rocking albums in the 70's (popular everywhere but America apparently), and come the 80's the hair comes out and Tawny Kitaen is put in their videos. At one point they were putting different musicians in the video from those who were performing the actual music..."pretty" musicians. Other bands who were established in the 70's (and in their image)...like KISS who took off their make up. Even Ozzy had the poofy hair and eyeliner for an album or so (Shot In The Dark).
Blame MTV. Blame John Bon Jovi. Although looks was always important. The Beatles, Elvis. You had to have good looking guys in the band to attract the chicks. But you still had to be metal enough to get the guy crowd.
Topic: bands who reinvented themselves...Pantera (originally a product of the 80's hair metal/spandex band to one of the best 90's metal bands...an intentional change, or just influences of the time?), Accept and others...
ha ha. I thought Pantera did that. I used to tell people that when they ragged on 80's metal and would talk so hard about Pantera. They always said I was full of crap.
Topic: Metal being a male dominated genre...how women are perceived in it...whether as dressing in metal videos or as performers, like Lita Ford...do they continue to perpetuate the myth...again like Lita Ford who end up "humping their guitars" etc. What about taking the "hot women in video" thing, and putting guitars in their hands to sell albums to the male audiences, like Vixen? Other female involved bands: Plasmatics, Femme Fatal, Hellion or Warlock/Doro Pesch?
Male or female, sex appeal sells. Male performers have always used sex appeal. But it's always only an "issue" when a girl does it. Hypocrisy.
Topic: the darker side of metal....the "satanic" how much of it was legit, and how much was just to get attention? Dee Snider says mostly it was just imagery, just putting pentagrams on there to scare the moms and dads. Black Sabbath? Iron Maiden ("Number Of The Beast")? Slayer (Satan Laughs As You Eternally Rot)? Kerry King says that it's just what metal's image is, the way it should be. One of the panelists even said that the lead singer from Deicide said that he didn't want to perform on Christmas eve, wanted to be with his family that eve. NOTE: he also has an upside down cross branded into his forehead.
Slayer & Glenn Danzig (Misfits, Samhain, Danzig) were always two of my favorites. I never thought either one worshipped the devil. They both wrote about the darker side of humanity. I don't think either one used it to get attention. I'm sure other bands have....King Diamond anyone? Most of the time listening to bands like these was no different than watching a good horror movie. Same ideas, just different mediums.
Topic: Icons of Heavy Metal? Ozzy, is he a "founding father", and does he deserve the accolades? Bands since Sabbath have either been influenced by Sabbath (or Led Zeppelin), and bands of today are influenced by bands who are influenced by Sabbath/Zeppelin. Dee Snider says Ozzy gets too much credit, that there were 4 members to Sabbath, he doesn't write his own lyrics/music, but that what he DOES have is character/charisma. Singers ARE the face of the band...the front man...Alice Cooper, Marilyn Manson....ESPECIALLY when the band's name is the same as the singer's...
I don't know what Dee's talking about here. Whenever people talk about "who invented Heavy Metal?" they say "Black Sabbath", not Ozzy Osbourne. The only reason Ozzy's name comes up is because he was able to have a larger and more successful career after Sabbath. And, by the way, Sabbath was NEVER the same after they kicked Ozzy out.
Topic: New Wave Of British Heavy Metal (NWOBHM): Iron Maiden, Def Leppard, Saxon, Motorhead...what was going on at that time period? It's a period that lasted only a short while, and very few of those bands are "viable" today, but they inspired a lot of future bands (like Metallica)
Never really listened to a lot of these bands. Knew them, and had some records by some of them, but was never a big fan of any.
Topic: "Prog Rock" one of the top: Dream Theater...are there too many sub-categories of rock/metal? Dee Snider says yes...that bands end up hating bands of this subgenre etc., it was hard enough of being metal v. the world without all the "in fighting"....one positive thing of the subgenres....is that fans will latch on to someone who is established in that subgenre, and stay with the band...so no radio single is required and they'll buy every album (and side projects).
Way, way too many sub-categories of rock/metal. Too damn confusing and too damn subjective.
Topic: Heavy metal's international appeal...Krokus from Switzerland, Loudness from Japan & Scorpions from Germany. That, and of course there are fans all over the world. Why does metal appeal worldwide? Teenage angst...identifying with the music...stuff that doesn't seem to happen with other genres like country-western (which, if being performed in Japan, is a novelty).
I loved this. Knowing that no matter what part of the world you were in, there were kids with the same feelings. Made me realize we were more than the "same" than "different".
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Old 06-03-04, 09:41 AM
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Originally posted by Amel
ha ha. I thought Pantera did that. I used to tell people that when they ragged on 80's metal and would talk so hard about Pantera. They always said I was full of crap.
So true, "Dimebag" Darrell use to be called "Diamond" Darrell....
http://www.andheavymetalforall.com.b...era.fotos.html

I like Pantera for the most part, but it was always nice to point this out to certain people.

Originally posted by Amel
Slayer & Glenn Danzig (Misfits, Samhain, Danzig) were always two of my favorites. I never thought either one worshipped the devil. They both wrote about the darker side of humanity. I don't think either one used it to get attention. I'm sure other bands have....King Diamond anyone? Most of the time listening to bands like these was no different than watching a good horror movie. Same ideas, just different mediums
AFAIK Danzig is/was a Satanist. I don't believe it was just his stage persona. Of course I see nothing wrong with satanism so it doesn't bother me whatsoever.


Metal Mania is great I love VH1 Classic.
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Old 06-03-04, 12:02 PM
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I hope they release this on DVD.
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Old 06-03-04, 08:20 PM
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looks like an awesome show. going to have to check it out sometime.
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Old 06-04-04, 12:09 AM
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Great to see some responses...some great ones by fnordboy and Anel. That's why I included the discussions as well as the videos. Figured we could get some more chatting here in the music forum. Feel free to take one of those topics and start a new thread if you think it might generate more response. As far as the next part 2 (and possibly part 3), should I just continue to post them in this thread, or should I do a part 2 thread?

I can't believe that on THURSDAY, I've just remembered that the marathon was a build up to a week of 100 Metal Moments (or something like that), on every night at 10 pm on VH1 Classic. Damn it! I'm sure they'll repeat it, and perhaps even do a marathon day of it as well.

Kind of ironic, that when I was a bit younger, VH1 was considered to be the channel your parents would watch...for the "old folks" type music videos. And now....I guess I'm old (no I'm not, it's still not "too loud"). LAFF. But I enjoy both VH1 and the old school metal as well as a lot of the new stuff that's played on H.B.'s Ball.
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Old 06-04-04, 10:40 AM
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Originally posted by harpo787
As far as the next part 2 (and possibly part 3), should I just continue to post them in this thread, or should I do a part 2 thread?
I say continue them in this thread.

Originally posted by harpo787
I can't believe that on THURSDAY, I've just remembered that the marathon was a build up to a week of 100 Metal Moments (or something like that), on every night at 10 pm on VH1 Classic. Damn it! I'm sure they'll repeat it, and perhaps even do a marathon day of it as well.
Damnit, I had totally forgotten about this. I am sure they will marathon it this weekend or maybe next weekend. Thanks for reminding me. Yet another reason why I need to get a TiVo

Originally posted by harpo787
Kind of ironic, that when I was a bit younger, VH1 was considered to be the channel your parents would watch...for the "old folks" type music videos. And now....I guess I'm old (no I'm not, it's still not "too loud"). LAFF. But I enjoy both VH1 and the old school metal as well as a lot of the new stuff that's played on H.B.'s Ball.
VH1 has definitely changed since then. They were definitely a "Lite" station before. It isn't so much that you have changed IMO. I think what happened was that since MTV went towards a more show based format and pretty much did away with videos (and diversity of the videos that they do show) VH1 kind of picked up the ball. MTV2 might have been an option earlier, but now it seems to be the same crap as MTV (with the exception of a few shows like Subterranean and the Ball). They too are now showing the MTV TV shows when they should be showing videos IMO. VH1 seems to take the vids that MTV won't play (either too old or not in their 12 year old demographic).

So short answer? You didn't get old MTV and (in a lesser regard) VH1 got younger.
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Old 06-06-04, 11:05 PM
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Yeah, I've never thought of myself as "getting older" mentally. Surely, the body ages, but my taste in music remains the same, or rather, expands...but it seems I never "grew out" of metal (or really any other music that I've enjoyed. But enough about that, on to the rest of the show (not as much left as I thought):


-Ozzy Osbourne: "Mama I'm Coming Home"
-Motorhead: "Ace Of Spades"
-Corrosion Of Conformity: "Dance Of The Dead"
Topic: Ronnie James Dio's contribution to Black Sabbath, and how it's ignored/overlooked. Unlike MOST bands, Black Sabbath lost their lead singer (Ozzy) and managed to continue to do well. AC/DC also managed this, in fact, did even better according to some, as they were not well known in the US until after Bon Scott's death.
-Black Sabbath: "T.V. Crimes"
-Queensryche: "I Don't Believe In Love"
-Death Angel: "Bored"
-Judas Priest: "Locked In"
-Accept: "Balls To The Wall"
-Saxon: "Power & The Glory"
Topic: can one replace a lead guitarist? KISS? Ozzy? They're almost as up front and visible as the singers...and often contribute more musically (and sometimes lyrically) to the band then the rest of the band. It seems that when a guitarist leaves, starts their own band...they manage a few sales for an album or two, but seem to disappear.
-Vinnie Vincent Invasion- "Love Kills"
-Faster Pussycat: "Bathroom Wall"
----------------------------
-Poison: "Nothing But A Good Time"
-Europe: "The Final Countdown"
-Saxon: "Strong Arm Of The Law"
-Skid Row: "Youth Gone Wild"
VH1 Flashback: 1988 interview w/ Cinderella about making the video Gypsy Road
-Cinderella: "Gypsy Road"
-Kix: "Don't Close Your Eyes"
-Def Leppard: "Make Love Like A Man"
-Scorpions: "No One Like You"
-Precious Metal: "Bad Guys" (this just might be the worst of it all...an all female band, playing bad "rock", for a bad "movie" by the same name: Bad Guys, perhaps the worst movie of all time involving pro wrestling, it would seem. The final line in the song? "So bad.")
-Masi: "God Promised A Paradise"
-Bon Jovi: "Wanted Dead Or Alive"
-Dio: "I Could Have Been A Dreamer"
-Alcatraz: "Island In The Sun"
-Motley Crue: "Live Wire"
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Old 06-07-04, 01:37 PM
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Originally posted by fnordboy
So true, "Dimebag" Darrell use to be called "Diamond" Darrell....
http://www.andheavymetalforall.com.b...era.fotos.html

I like Pantera for the most part, but it was always nice to point this out to certain people.

I brought this up on the board a long time ago...here is another one about Pantera with a lot more pictures

Link
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Old 06-07-04, 04:51 PM
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Originally posted by Flashback
I brought this up on the board a long time ago...here is another one about Pantera with a lot more pictures

Link
I don't think I have seen all those shots before. Classic stuff!!

I have no problem with evolving, but the fact that those are only 2 years before Cowboys From Hell is funny.
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Old 06-07-04, 05:02 PM
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wow, I've never heard of this show. but the fact that they played DRI, and Biohazard's "Punishment" makes it leaps and bounds better than Headbangers Ball.

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Old 06-07-04, 05:25 PM
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Originally posted by Flashback
I brought this up on the board a long time ago...here is another one about Pantera with a lot more pictures

Link
That page is great! Damn, I wish I would of had those pics years ago. Has the band ever talked about this?

I too remember when VH1 was your "parents channel". I also went through the phase of questioning myself - "am I getting old, cause VH1 is kicking MTV's ass!?"

I keep catching the same damn episodes of 100 Most Metal Moments. I'm just gonna have tape it so I can see the thing. Maybe this will finally make me get Tivo.
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Old 06-08-04, 02:33 AM
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Show em' your metal face, Oleg.
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Old 06-08-04, 08:08 AM
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Originally posted by fnordboy
I don't think I have seen all those shots before. Classic stuff!!

I have no problem with evolving, but the fact that those are only 2 years before Cowboys From Hell is funny.
I don't have a problem with evolving as well...but as Amel and you brought up I always thought it was funny how many fans of Pantera did not know the bands history.


The link to the site was Metal Sludge which was, I think, #8 in the Vh1 countdown for top metal moments. It is a site that is pretty funny and has tons of interviews (20 questions) that are great...it's like Mad Magazine meets RIP.
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