hdtv00

Giving 3 album's of Jackson's a listen today. See what I think , I haven't listened to them in over a decade.

" And while THRILLER may be the most popular album ever"

It isn't Eagles Hotel California is but either way Thriller is the 2nd best selling album of all time. It is great, or was listening now see how I feel about it now.

You know maybe he is the King of Pop. Meaning King if Britney Spears and other pop artist. And Prince is the King of real musicians.

I remember Jackson more for performing and his videos. But Prince music is just better.


EDIT: Wow sounds so much different now that I'm older with a real sound system. Trippy. Listening to Thriller 25th edition , Bad and Dangerous

Rocketdog2000

Here's some interesting info, that might put things into perspective. If one were to compare just both artists most popular albums - Thriller and Purple Rain - look at what a difference went into creating them.

For Michael Jackson - Thriller

Tom Bahler Keyboards, Synclavier
Brian Banks Synthesizer, Programming, Producer, Synthesizer Programming
Steve Bates Assistant Engineer
Michael Boddicker Synthesizer, Keyboards, Emulator, Vocoder
Bruce Cannon Sound Effects, Effects
Leon "Ndugu" Chancler Drums
Paulinho Da Costa Percussion
Mark Ettel Assistant Engineer
Matt Forger Engineer, Technical Engineer
David Foster Synthesizer, Synthesizer Arrangements
Humberto Gatica Engineer
Gary Grant Trumpet, Flugelhorn
Bernie Grundman Mastering
Nelson Hayes Sound Effects, Stomp Board
Howard Hewett Vocals (bckgr)
Jerry Hey Trumpet, Arranger, Conductor, Flugelhorn, Horn Arrangements, String Arrangements
Bunny Hull Vocals, Vocals (bckgr)
James Ingram Arranger, Keyboards, Vocals (bckgr), Handclapping, Portasound
Janet Jackson Vocals, Vocals (bckgr)
LaToya Jackson Vocals, Vocals (bckgr)
Michael Jackson Guitar, Arranger, Drums, Sound Effects, Vocals, Vocals (bckgr), Handclapping, Producer, Vocal Arrangement, Horn Arrangements, Rhythm Arrangements, Synthesizer Arrangements, Stomp Board
Paul Jackson, Jr. Guitar
Mac James Lettering
Gregg Jampol Assistant Engineer
Louis Johnson Bass, Bass (Electric), Guitar (Bass), Handclapping
Quincy Jones Arranger, Producer, Vocal Arrangement, Rhythm Arrangements
Donn Landee Engineer
Becky Lopez Vocals, Vocals (bckgr)
Jeremy Lubbock Conductor
Steve Lukather Guitar, Arranger, Bass (Electric)
Anthony Marinelli Programming, Synthesizer Programming
Paul McCartney Vocals, Performer, Guest Appearance
David Paich Synthesizer, Piano, Arranger, Keyboards, Rhythm Arrangements, Synthesizer Arrangements
Dean Parks Guitar
Greg Phillinganes Synthesizer, Keyboards, Programming, Handclapping, Fender Rhodes
Jeff Porcaro Drums
Steve Porcaro Synthesizer, Arranger, Programming, Synthesizer Programming
Vincent Price Vocals, Rap, Guest Appearance
Steven Ray Sound Effects, Handclapping
Bill Reichenbach Jr. Trombone
Stephen Saper Engineer
Greg "Frosty" Smith
Greg Smith Synthesizer, Keyboards
Bruce Swedien Sound Effects, Engineer, Mixing, Effects
Rod Temperton Synthesizer, Arranger, Vocal Arrangement, Rhythm Arrangements, Synthesizer Arrangements
Julia Tillman Waters Vocals
Valadé Stylist
Eddie Van Halen Guitar, Soloist
Gerald Vinci Concert Master
Waters, Julia Vocals (bckgr)
Oren Waters Vocals, Vocals (bckgr)
Howard Wewett Vocals
Maxine Willard Waters Vocals, Vocals (bckgr)
Larry William Flute, Saxophone
David E. Williams Guitar
David Williams Guitar
David Williams Guitar
Larry Williams Flute, Saxophone
Larry Williams Flute, Saxophone, Wind
Bill Wolfer Synthesizer, Keyboards, Programming

...and songwriting...

Wanna Be Startin' Somethin' (Jackson)
Baby Be Mine (Temperton)
The Girl Is Mine (Jackson)
Thriller (Temperton)
Beat It (Jackson)
Billie Jean (Jackson)
Human Nature (Bettis, Porcaro)
P.Y.T. (Pretty Young Thing) (Ingram, Jones)
The Lady in My Life (Temperton)


And for Prince - Purple Rain

Apollonia Vocals
Brownmark Bass, Vocals
David Coleman Strings
Lisa Coleman Keyboards, Sitar, Vocals
Dr. Fink Keyboards, Vocals
Suzie Katayama Violin, Viola
Wendy Melvoin Guitar, Percussion, Vocals
Novi Novog Cello
Prince & the Revolution Performer
Prince Bass, Guitar, Arranger, Composer, Keyboards, Vocals, Vocals (bckgr), Producer
Revolution Producer
Bobby Z Percussion, Drums

...and songwriting...

Let's Go Crazy (Prince & The Revolution)
Take Me with U (Prince & The Revolution)
The Beautiful Ones (Prince & The Revolution)
Computer Blue (Prince & The Revolution)
Darling Nikki (Prince & The Revolution)
When Doves Cry (Prince & The Revolution)
I Would Die 4 U (Prince & The Revolution)
Baby I'm a Star (Prince & The Revolution)
Purple Rain (Prince & The Revolution)

In comparison, you can see that's quite the laundry list of people it took to make Thriller, and Jackson only wrote four of the albums songs. So just how talented was he?

Supermallet

Hotel California is not the top selling album of all time. You're thinking of The Eagles greatest hits, which I remember there being an article about when it sold 40 million copies, which is how many copies Thriller sold during its original release.

According to wikipedia, Thriller has sold, to date, 109 million copies (and I'm guessing that's not including the spike in sales that has occurred since his death), while The Eagles' Greatest Hits has sold 42 million copies, which actually makes it the fifth best selling album of all time (behind Meat Loaf's Bat Out of Hell, Pink Floyd's Dark Side of the Moon, and AC/DC's Back In Black).

Out of all those albums, only Thriller has sold more than 50 million copies (Back In Black is at 45 million), and is thus more than double the sales of the second best selling album. It really is the most popular album of all time.

hdtv00

Interesting Rocket.....very telling.

I stand corrected Supermallet, wherever I looked it said other stats.

After listening to each Jackson cd. I figured it out, it's very obviously really when you listen to them. they really do sound the same, musically. It's a non band , instrument sound. It's seems mostly synth and fake drum beats. They are all very similar in that way. Which I guess would account for a massive credit listing on Thriller and very likely his other albums.

Either way everyone will always remember his dancing. That's what I remember the most and his videos. No debate there really.

Supermallet

Well, given that Jackson is the sole credited songwriter on Wanna Be Startin' Something, Beat It, and Billie Jean, arguably the three best songs on the album, and two of which are all time pop classics recognizable the world over, it's hard to say he's not talented. And, if I'm not mistaken, he wrote or co-wrote every song on Bad.

That being said, I do think he was less talented than Prince, but still much more talented than most people.

nodeerforamonth

I just find it funny that one week ago, Jackson was looked at as a joke and a potential child molester.

Now, even heavy metal bands are proclaiming him to be the "greatest songwriter/entertainer ever"!

DieselsDen

I enjoyed BATMAN, too. THE ARMS OF ORION has a beautiful melody and instrumentals, although the lyrics are sweet enough to induce a diabetic coma.

As far as audience appeal goes, Prince's music has always been "rated" PG to X, while Michael's generally is at PG-13. Michael's popularity is in part due to his massive appealing, but artistically unchallenging songs. Compare BEAT IT to EROTIC CITY, and BLACK OR WHITE to CONTROVERSY, and it's easy to tell which song is more palatable to general audiences.

Rocketdog2000

No, no debate there. And I'm not saying that MJ was untalented, just that on a musical level, I always had to wonder just how much of it was him, and how much was outside (i.e. - Quincy Jones, etc..) sources. At least as far as Prince is concerned, you know it's pretty much all him.

Supermallet

Jackson certainly never downplayed his collaborations. Hell, the sound of Off The Wall is pure Quincy Jones at his best. According to Quincy Jones, he urged Jackson to write as many songs as he could to bring to the Bad sessions, because Jones thought it important that Jackson have a songwriting hand in every song on the album. He said that Jackson brought over 30 songs to the sessions, one of which, Streetwalker, is a bonus track on the special edition of the album and is about as good as the rest of the songs that made it in.

Edit: Here's what wikipedia says - "Jackson began recording demos for the anticipated follow-up to Thriller a few months after the 1984 Victory Tour with The Jacksons. Recording took place between November 1986 and July 9, 1987[7] (except for "Another Part of Me" which was recorded for Captain EO in 1986). Jackson wrote a reported sixty songs for the new album and recorded thirty, wanting to use them all on a three-disc set. Longtime producer Quincy Jones cut these down to a ten-track single LP. The CD release also contained a bonus 11th track, "Leave Me Alone".

Jackson wrote nine of the eleven tracks himself. Terry Britten (writer of Tina Turner's "What's Love Got to Do With It") and Graham Lyle wrote "Just Good Friends". Siedah Garrett and Glen Ballard wrote "Man in the Mirror". Stevie Wonder sings co-lead vocal on "Just Good Friends", and Steve Stevens contributes the guitar solo for "Dirty Diana".

However, while recording the tracks for Bad, there was some debate between Jackson and Jones on which songs would be put on the album. For example, they both had a hard time deciding on either "Streetwalker" or "Another Part of Me" (which was recorded for Captain EO in 1986) to be put on the album. Jackson wanted "Streetwalker", wheras Jones wanted "Another Part of Me". Ultimately, it was decided by Jackson's manager Frank Dileo. According to Quincy Jones from "Bad: Special Edition", there was a meeting among the three. In the meeting, Jackson played "Streetwalker" first, and Dileo was not impressed. But Dileo started to dance when "Another Part of Me" came on. This is what eventually put "Another Part of Me" onto the album."

The Infidel

slop101

^ that didn't seem terribly ROTFL-worthy to me. I think a good case can be made for both sides. They're both fantastic performers - some will gravitate towards MJ's style and some Prince's - doesn't mean one is so much better than the other. Price certainly is more "musical" than MJ and far more prolific. But MJ had an undefinable air about him that made his performances special. I'm comparing the best Prince performance I've seen to the best MJ I've seen and I think MJ's performances are more "magical", whatever that may be.

But overall, I'd much rather pop in a Prince cd than one from MJ.

buckee1

Much love to MJ but...Prince has always been in greater rotation with me. MJ's stuff is fun but at times kitschy. Prince's stuff is just great music & musicianship period.

RockyMtnBri

Same here, o Slopmeister! I have an entire playlist of Prince stuff (finally broke down and bought Dirty Mind from Amazon - have the LP but never had a digital version) from 1978 to 2004. I will always love Michael's Off The Wall album, but there are many more Prince songs that I could say are my faves:

I Wanna Be Your Lover
Erotic City
Ballad of Dororthy Parker
Scarlett Pussy
Batdance
Pop Life
Controversy

And the list goes on!

al_bundy

pretty much all of the top 12 on American Idol and So You Think you can Dance can sing and dance better than Michael Jackson

nothingfails

I grew up on both guys and have plenty of each in my collection. But I think the difference between the two of them is that Prince's career has always been about the journey, MJ's career has been about the destination. When I say that, i mean that Prince is not someone who'll ever be satisfied resting on his laurels, he always has more to give and I am sure we're going to be getting new material on a regular basis until he dies, which hopefully is several decades away. MJ OTOH basked in the fame and laurels and everytime he came back with a new album, he tried to make it bigger and more elaborate than Thriller, the fame had made him forget that Thriller was a once-in-a-lifetime success and he always wanted to be bigger and more spectacular than that. Prince never cared about the fame he had in the mid-80's and IMO actually ran from it while MJ continued to chase it for the rest of his life. In their absolute peaks, MJ and Prince were equals, but after that, I've been more excited about what Prince has done because he has remained on his musical journey, while MJ hadn't released a new album in eight years, and it'd been six years before that one.

MJ is like your director who makes blockbusters that are guaranteed to make $200 minimum just on name alone, while Prince is your art-house director who might cross over to the mainstream every now and then but never let fame hinder his journey or make him alter his work in hopes to outdo himself.

Supermallet

While I haven't seen so you think you can dance, if you really think that even the top Idol contestants in a given season sing better than Michael Jackson, you're insane.

Jason

Prince is a talented performer, but Michael Jackson was a cultural phenomenon. There's really no comparison. For better or worse, MJ will be remembered as a better (read: bigger) artist than Prince.

freshticles

Vanilla Ice, Mc Hammer, and Tickle me Elmos were also cultural phenomenons. Prince is a better musician. It's not even debatable. He's a much more versatile and talented songwriter as well as being an amazing musician on a sizeable variety of instruments.

nothingfails

You can't truly compare the two. MJ wanted to be the biggest star, Prince never wanted that type of burden. MJ made music for mass appeal (not to say Prince never wrote hit records) while Prince was always more of a niche artist... granted, a niche artist who was huge in the 80's. But you can't compare the two, MJ wanted to make music that reached the widest audience possible, whereas I don't think when you listen to an album like Lovesexy or Parade that Prince was striving to sell tens and tens of millions of albums. MJ and Prince were both amazing in their own ways but in terms of commercial success, you can't really hold MJ's success against Prince because I don't think, Batman and Diamonds And Pearls notwithstanding, Prince has ever been anywhere nearly as commercial as MJ. Purple Rain was a fluke for Prince and an album that could've put him on MJ's level as a superstar, but instead he followed it up with Around The World In A Day and Parade, proving that Prince always wanted to be a musician and artist first while being a pop icon was last on his list.

Supermallet

It seems pretty clear that Purple Rain was Prince's bid for superstardom. He's certainly been interested in being a success, he was never as obsessed with it the way MJ was.

al_bundy

MJ's voice sounds like all midrange with poorly attempted high notes. Maybe not every top 12 contestant (Sanjaya), but every top 6 contestant on AI has a better vocal range than MJ. Michael Jackson's voice is about as good as most of the hard rock/metal acts. good enough to sing but nothing special. with dancing, the choreography is also a lot better today than it was 20 years ago so i'll give him a break there

my first album ever was Thriller and i listened to it more times than i can remember, but when i look back and compare him with what i see today he's only average and mostly just a performer.

Supermallet

It's not just about technical ability. Jackson's voice (especially on Off The Wall and Thriller) is chock full of personality. Plus, his voice is instantly recognizable, which is majorly important when trying to make yourself distinct in the pop world. I couldn't tell 9 out of 10 American Idol contestants apart.

The Infidel

slop101

Prince needs a check in the "drinks Jesus Juice" too.

nothingfails

That is true, I think Prince wanted Purple Rain more because once PR happened, he was given so much more freedom to do whatever he wanted because when you have an album that sells PR numbers, you can get away with it more. 1999 was a step in the direction commercially but then Purple Rain burst the floodgates open for Prince and I think with him, it was more that megastardom would give him more artistic freedom as opposed to Prince wanting to be this superstar. Granted, Prince was already chameleonesque by that point and he had to fight Warner to release Dirty Mind and to make 1999 a double record set, but once he sold 13 million of something, Warner let him do whatever the hell he wanted (well, they wouldn't let SOTT be a three record set and made him compromise it into a 2 record set, but still....).