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Music Talk Discuss music in all its forms: CD, MP3, DVD-A, SACD and of course live

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Old 10-20-01, 11:55 AM   #1
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Best online store for DVD-A discs ?

Does any one store have the best selection and good prices ?
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Old 10-20-01, 02:55 PM   #2
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Both and have good selections, although planet has somewhat better prices.
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Old 11-25-01, 01:26 PM   #3
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Yes, I know this was probably covered a million times, but bear with me.

I want to buy a Progressive DVD player. I'm tired of using my PC for Home Theater, and I figured as long as I'm going that route, I might as well spring for the DVD-A and/or SACD.

As I understand it, there is only one forthcoming DVD player to offer both DVD-A/SACD capability, the Apex AD-7701. While this player is an unknown quantity, I imagine that once they start offering it, other manufacturers will follow suit.

My question is; Do I really need SACD? There are a few good progressive DVD/DVD-A players already available for under $300. Is SACD really worth the wait?
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Old 11-25-01, 02:02 PM   #4
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I suggest getting a DVD-A player. The SACD is produced by Sony only right? I have a feeling the SACD is going the way of the Beta due to the fact they are the only company that will produce them and therefore die a slow death.
Correct me if im wrong.

Stay away from APEX. They are suck. All I hear is that the players die after 6months. Yeah they are cheap but you get what you pay for.
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Old 11-25-01, 02:14 PM   #5
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Wouldn't it be obvious to get a DVD-A for more storage? Isn't a SACD like a regular CD with 700MB but enhanced sound? Anyone have more info on this?
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Old 11-25-01, 02:30 PM   #6
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As I understand it, the SACD format can hold up to 6x as much information as standard CDs and can either be single or double layered.

Also, like DVDs they can hold other information, like video and stills.
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Old 11-25-01, 06:11 PM   #7
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Sony isn't the only maker of SACD products. Both SACD and DVD-A were created by separate groups of electronics companies. Philips is another SACD company.

Personally, I wouldn't buy either right now. Just like with the recordable DVD formats, something will pull ahead eventually and make the other format obsolete.
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Old 11-25-01, 09:06 PM   #8
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That's why I'm thinking both. Yes, I know Apex isn't exactly known for quality, but SACD players are generally expensive, and Apex is known as having some of the best DAC output. So I'm hoping it will be good for at least that.

Either that one or the Toshiba 5700 looks interesting. Just DVD-A tho.
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Old 01-07-02, 02:01 PM   #9
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Do all DVD-A contain DD 5.1?

I don't have a DVD-A capable player, but I have really enjoyed the Police dts I picked up recently. I'm interested in Fleetwood Mac - Rumors DVD-A; does it also contain a Dolby 5.1 mix?

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Old 06-15-02, 03:04 PM   #10
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DVD Audio vs. SACD

Can anyone tell me if either of these formats are worth buying? I know very little about either format, but I think it would be very cool to hear some of my favorite bands or composers on 5.1 audio...

Are there pros and cons to each format? Is the selection limited?

Thanks in advance.
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Old 06-17-02, 10:44 AM   #11
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it really depends on what you are looking for.

SACD vs Dvd Audio.

There was a great write up about it at

I have a sacd player. I love the sacd personally myself.


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Old 06-17-02, 01:46 PM   #12
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I am personally waiting for the dust to settle on this one.

Not enough media yet and a limited selection of players.

I have no great desire to replace either one of my cd or dvd players.
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Old 06-18-02, 01:40 PM   #13
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I personally can't comment on SACD, however I have several DVD-audio discs that I play on a "standard" non dvd-audio player and it is really amazing. I run them through a DD 5.1 mix on my Boston Acoustics system, and it is like hearing these albums for the first time.

Amazing! I don't know how they could get much better.
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Old 10-02-02, 11:06 PM   #14
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DTS CD--What's the difference between it and SACD/DVD-Audio??

I just got a Super Audio CD player, and I thought I was well versed in the differences between SACD and DVD-A...and then I discover DTS CDs.

I remember when demoing some speakers a couple years ago the salesperson played Sheryl Crowe's "The Globe Sessions" which he referred to as a "DTS-Audio disc." I'm assuming he was referring to the DTS version of the disc that I've been able to find in stores, but I still can't seem to dig up any info on the specifics(encoding, playback, sound quality) of these "DTS CDs."

Anybody with any info or experiences with them, please fill me in, and also let me know if they're worth picking up. Any help would be appreciated.
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Old 10-10-02, 08:22 PM   #15
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DTS CDs can be played on any regular CD player (or DVD player or laserdisc player that plays CDs), but they must be hooked up via digital connector to a DTS-equipped receiver or you will just hear pink noise. That's the main advantage for me- I don't need to buy a new player to listen to these. They are overpriced though.
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Old 10-11-02, 12:16 AM   #16
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DTS CDs are no where NEAR the quality of SACDs/DVD-A, either. While it does sound very good, the quality doesn't match that of DVD-Audio.
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Old 11-08-02, 10:49 AM   #17
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CNN Article on SACD and DVD Audio copy-protection.

New discs: Unfriendly, but better sound
Some urge consumers to wait it out
Friday, November 8, 2002 Posted: 9:38 AM EST (1438 GMT)

DVD-audio discs offer a higher sound quality than CDs, but also prevent the owner from making perfect copies.

SAN FRANCISCO, California (AP) -- Two new digital audio disc formats touted by the music industry for their stellar sound are nowhere near as consumer-friendly as regular old CDs.

They're engineered to be copy-proof.

The proposition thrills digital piracy-fearing record executives. But many audiophiles are cool to the virtual padlocks, which could prove the undoing of one or both formats.

About 1,000 recordings are now available in Super Audio CD or DVD-Audio. Both require special new audio components and produce five-channel sound with superb clarity and definition.

Yet each format contains digital watermarks -- extra encoding designed to lock the recordings on the disc. The intent is to foil digital duplication and ripping to MP3 files.

Moreover, there are no digital outputs on any SACD or DVD-Audio players now available, making them a tough sell despite the discs' higher tonal quality and fuller audio range.

The Audible Difference in Palo Alto, California, is refusing to sell SACD or DVD-Audio players until manufacturers can ship a hybrid unit that plays both formats as well as legacy CDs in the highest quality sound available.

"Until we see a product like that, we're sitting on the sidelines and we're counseling our clients to sit on the sidelines," said Tim Fay, who sells high-end stereo equipment at the store.

How the units fared
The Audible Difference has tested several units, Fay said. It found that the SACD disc playback quality is superb, but the legacy CD playback was not.

None of the 55 members of the Arizona Audiophile Society want players with these hardware limitations, said Don Hoglund, the group's president.

"Some of the members had them and sold them. They got frustrated with the lack of availability of titles and the analog outputs only," he said.

Sony, which developed the SACD format with Philips, says it will continue to make SACD players without digital outputs until there's an industry standard for securing the digital audio stream.

"With high-resolution audio, the need for secure interfaces becomes even greater, since the quality of audio on such formats as SACD is virtually indistinguishable from the master (tape)," said Sony spokesman David Migdal.

Panasonic hasn't incorporated digital outputs into its DVD-Audio players for the same reasons.

Despite the intentions of the manufacturers to limit digital copies, consumers favor such uses for music.

In a recent Gartner G2 survey, 88 percent of respondents said they believed it legal to make copies of CDs for personal backup use while 77 percent felt they should be able to copy a CD for personal use in another device.

Here's how watermarks and copy protection schemes for both DVD-Audio and SACD currently work:

•Sony and Philips have developed Super Audio CD discs that contain two watermarks. One is for visual verification. The second is invisible, authenticates the disc for playback and is introduced during the mastering process. Without the watermark, the disc won't play in a proprietary SACD player.

•Dual layer SACDs exist that contain a second session of legacy CD content that can be played on some existing CD players, but the higher quality SACD tracks can only be played on SACD players.

•DVD-Audio discs use similar encryption technology from a company called Verance. The company's chief technology officer, Joseph Winograd, said the acoustic watermarks cannot be heard by the human ear. The watermarks must be present for the player to recognize the disc and play the content. A bootleg DVD-Audio without the watermark would fail to play, Winograd said.

Verance was contracted to provide the watermark solution by 4C Entity, a consortium of technology companies -- IBM, Intel, Matsushita and Toshiba -- charged with creating an industry encryption standard for protecting audio content for DVD-Audio discs.

The protections come just as prices for computer DVD burners have dropped to as little as $299.

Techie tinkerers will likely also be looking to attack the copy-protection schemes of DVD-Audio and SACD just as the scheme for DVD movies was cracked several years ago.

GartnerG2 analyst P.J. McNealy says the public should be fully informed about the copy protection aspects of these new discs.

"I don't think anybody per se is against copy protected CDs. I think they're against no-labeled copy protected CDs," McNealy said. The labels are optional at this point.

None of the dozens of DVD-Audio and SACD discs examined at Virgin Megastore in San Francisco mentioned the underlying copy-protection scheme in their outer packaging.

Fred von Lohmann, an intellectual property attorney for the Electronic Frontier Foundation, says the onus will be on consumers to make sure they're aware of what they're buying.

"Copyright owners are entitled to use whatever formats they want to use," von Lohmann said. "If they really want to protect their content they can go back to vinyl."
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Old 01-24-03, 01:26 PM   #18
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What is the difference between a DVD-Audio and a Super CD?

Just curious, since they are both multi-channel formats.
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Old 01-24-03, 02:21 PM   #19
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I'd like to know this too. Can you play them on any DVD player? Do you need something special?
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Old 01-24-03, 02:43 PM   #20
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From what I know the two different formats are supported by different companies. I know Sony supports Super Audio. You can play a dvd-audio disk's multi channel track in any dvd player, BUT you have to have a dvd-player with the dvd-audio logo if you want to play the high rez track.
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Old 01-24-03, 06:16 PM   #21
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Heres are a couple of links with some information for you.,00.html

Both formats require a special DVD-Audio or SACD player in order to decode the multi channel source. Some SACDs contain "regular" CD tracks also. Those can be played in a regular CD player. Most SACD's don't, so they do require new hardware. One of the big things going for DVD audio is that there is enough space on the discs to also provide video, SACD can not do that. Karaoke anyone?

Last edited by JNielsen; 01-24-03 at 06:20 PM.
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Old 01-26-03, 11:11 PM   #22
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Does anyone know where I can find a list of DVD-Audio and SACD discs?
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Old 01-28-03, 01:30 AM   #23
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Originally posted by henryfish
Does anyone know where I can find a list of DVD-Audio and SACD discs?
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Old 01-29-03, 03:48 PM   #24
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Here's another good site for high-resolution music news/reviews:

Let me just say that the purchase of an SACD player has reawakened my love for recorded music. I honestly never thought I could achieve this level of sound quality short of investing massive wads of cash into a turntable-driven, tubes-based system (or massive wads of cash on a Nu-Vista 3D CD player going through a Weiss Medea DAC). If you really care about music, I strongly urge you to begin investigating these formats.

A good forum to learn about this are those run by the great Steve Hoffman. Lots of good SACD-related info (including some of Steve's masterings on SACD), and also a bit of DVD-A info can be found there:
And also check out the music forums at HTF (DVD Talk simply doesn't have much in the way of SACD/DVD-A talk):

And, of course,

There are a few sites with listings of titles, but I'd check out the good online retailers for their SACD listings:

And also

Some of my favorite titles on SACD: all the Miles Davis stuff, particularly "Round About Midnight", "Kind of Blue", and "In a Silent Way", Dylan's "Blonde on Blonde", Beck's "Sea Change", Bowie's "Heathen", Hancock's "Headhunters", Diana Krall's "Look of Love" and "When I Look In Your Eyes", Alison Krauss' "New Favorite", the Rolling Stones' "Beggar's Banquet" and "Let It Bleed", Sonny Rollins' "Saxophone Collosus", John Coltrane's "A Love Supreme", "Ella and Louis", "Getz/Gilberto"... and about 50 more!

And just to whet your appetite, here are a few SACDs coming out this year: Pink Floyd's "Dark Side of the Moon", Steely Dan's "Gaucho", Norah Jones "Come Away With Me", The Police's entire catalog, Peter Gabriel's entire catalog, and 15 Bob Dylan albums. And that's for starters.
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Last edited by Richard Malloy; 01-29-03 at 04:05 PM.
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Old 01-29-03, 05:28 PM   #25
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im pissed, I went dvd-audio but now i think its dead. only crappy titles come out. guess ill have to pony up to sacd. i hate sony.
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