The one-and-only RIAA discussion thread [2003 - part one]
#1
DVD Talk Limited Edition
Thread Starter
Join Date: Jan 2001
Location: Florida
Posts: 5,456
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Are the RIAA and labels actually losing $$$?
[From a wired Letter to the Editor]
The RIAA loves to use sales figures: Numbers are down, after all, and that simply must be due to piracy, right? Well, there are other explanations. some which actually incorporate facts. CD shipments went from 1.1 billion units in 2000 to 968.6 million in 2001; income went from 14.3 billion to 13.7 billion. Thats a 10.3 decrease is units, but a 4.1 decrease in sales. But if you look at the actual number of releases, there were 12,000 fewer albums put out by the major labels in 2001 than in 1999. So in fact, the industry has dramatically increased its per album profit. It's pretty clear - labels cut back on new artist investments and raised album prices. You can go through all the RIAA-posted statistics, and not only don't you find its lost $4 Billion, you can't even begin to find any loss not attributable to its own sales and marketing. Piracy isn't a factor
The major labels dish up a small percentage of recorded music. They act in very expensive collusion with commercial radio stations, through "independent promoters" to pay for airplay. The Internet is a threat to this nice little deal - not because of piracy, primarily, but because of choice. If you're buying downloads from EMusic or MP3.com by artists not heard on the radio, your're probably not buying major-label fare like Britney Spears.
The RIAA loves to use sales figures: Numbers are down, after all, and that simply must be due to piracy, right? Well, there are other explanations. some which actually incorporate facts. CD shipments went from 1.1 billion units in 2000 to 968.6 million in 2001; income went from 14.3 billion to 13.7 billion. Thats a 10.3 decrease is units, but a 4.1 decrease in sales. But if you look at the actual number of releases, there were 12,000 fewer albums put out by the major labels in 2001 than in 1999. So in fact, the industry has dramatically increased its per album profit. It's pretty clear - labels cut back on new artist investments and raised album prices. You can go through all the RIAA-posted statistics, and not only don't you find its lost $4 Billion, you can't even begin to find any loss not attributable to its own sales and marketing. Piracy isn't a factor
The major labels dish up a small percentage of recorded music. They act in very expensive collusion with commercial radio stations, through "independent promoters" to pay for airplay. The Internet is a threat to this nice little deal - not because of piracy, primarily, but because of choice. If you're buying downloads from EMusic or MP3.com by artists not heard on the radio, your're probably not buying major-label fare like Britney Spears.
Last edited by RoQuEr; 04-03-03 at 06:51 PM.
#2
DVD Talk Reviewer
Join Date: Aug 2001
Location: WAS looking for My Own Private Stuckeyville, but stuck in Liberty City (while missing Vice City)
Posts: 15,094
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Noooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooo...not another thread about the RIAA lying about the cause of lost revenue..
It's absolutely true they lie. Michael Green was one of the main perpetrators of this myth.
Plain and simple..if they had worthwhile [read: not disposable] artists releasing affordably priced product none of this would be an issue. It's easy to place the blame on a technology that they're unsure of how to harness to "get theirs"...
[Which is why i'll be supporting Metallica during their ICON tribute on MTV...]
It's absolutely true they lie. Michael Green was one of the main perpetrators of this myth.
Plain and simple..if they had worthwhile [read: not disposable] artists releasing affordably priced product none of this would be an issue. It's easy to place the blame on a technology that they're unsure of how to harness to "get theirs"...
[Which is why i'll be supporting Metallica during their ICON tribute on MTV...]
#4
DVD Talk Special Edition
Join Date: Feb 2002
Posts: 1,371
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
This is a little beside the point but it still applys here....
Did the RIAA ever think that people like myself would still buy CD's if they HAD SOMETHING ACTUALLY WORTH BUYING!!
I think most of you would agree with me that you often pay $17.99 for maybe one or two good songs. That's far too little value for your money these days.
Did the RIAA ever think that people like myself would still buy CD's if they HAD SOMETHING ACTUALLY WORTH BUYING!!
I think most of you would agree with me that you often pay $17.99 for maybe one or two good songs. That's far too little value for your money these days.
#5
DVD Talk Hall of Fame
I think that it's not so much that the RIAA is losing money, but just that they are not making as much money as they think they should. The record industry is not in danger of going belly up, they are in danger of losing the extravagant lifestyle.
#6
New Member
Join Date: Aug 2001
Posts: 13
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
yes they are losing money. sony just laid off 1000 people last week.
gosh, if only the bad labels would release something worthwhile then i would stop stealing their product. great argument which gives no comfort whatsoever to those people, like myself, who are out of a job because of the decline of sales due to downloading.
gosh, if only the bad labels would release something worthwhile then i would stop stealing their product. great argument which gives no comfort whatsoever to those people, like myself, who are out of a job because of the decline of sales due to downloading.
#7
DVD Talk Reviewer
Join Date: Aug 2001
Location: WAS looking for My Own Private Stuckeyville, but stuck in Liberty City (while missing Vice City)
Posts: 15,094
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Originally posted by Brain Stew
I think that it's not so much that the RIAA is losing money, but just that they are not making as much money as they think they should. The record industry is not in danger of going belly up, they are in danger of losing the extravagant lifestyle.
I think that it's not so much that the RIAA is losing money, but just that they are not making as much money as they think they should. The record industry is not in danger of going belly up, they are in danger of losing the extravagant lifestyle.
#8
Suspended
Join Date: Jun 1999
Posts: 15,108
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Originally posted by Captain Harlock
I think most of you would agree with me that you often pay $17.99 for maybe one or two good songs. That's far too little value for your money these days.
I think most of you would agree with me that you often pay $17.99 for maybe one or two good songs. That's far too little value for your money these days.
#9
Senior Member
Join Date: Jan 2001
Location: Skull 1
Posts: 945
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Looks Like the RIAA Means Business
WASHINGTON -- The embattled music industry disclosed aggressive plans Wednesday for an unprecedented escalation in its fight against Internet piracy, threatening to sue hundreds of individual computer users who illegally share music files online.
The Recording Industry Association of America, citing substantial sales declines, said it will begin Thursday to search Internet file-sharing networks to identify users who offer "substantial" collections of MP3 music files for downloading. It expects to file at least several hundred lawsuits seeking financial damages within eight to 10 weeks.
Executives for the RIAA, the Washington-based lobbying group that represents major labels, would not say how many songs on a user's computer will qualify for a lawsuit. The new campaign comes just weeks after U.S. appeals court rulings requiring Internet providers to identify subscribers suspected of illegally sharing music and movie files.
The RIAA's president, Carey Sherman, said tens of millions of Internet users of popular file-sharing software after Thursday will expose themselves to "the real risk of having to face the music."
Critics accused the RIAA of resorting to heavy-handed tactics likely to alienate millions of Internet file-sharers.
"This latest effort really indicates the recording industry has lost touch with reality completely," said Fred von Lohmann, a lawyer for the Electronic Frontier Foundation. "Does anyone think more lawsuits are going to be the answer? Today they have declared war on the American consumer."
Mike Godwin of Public Knowledge, a consumer group that has challenged broad crackdowns on file-sharing networks, said Wednesday's announcement was appropriate because it targeted users illegally sharing copyrighted files.
"I'm sure it's going to freak them out," Mr. Godwin said. "The free ride is over." He added: "I wouldn't be surprised if at least some people engaged in file-trading decide to resist and try to find ways to thwart the litigation strategy."
The RIAA said its lawyers will file lawsuits initially against people with the largest collections of music files they can find online. U.S. copyright laws allow for damages of $750 to $150,000 for each song offered illegally on a person's computer, but Mr. Sherman said the RIAA will be open to settlement proposals from defendants.
The RIAA said it expected to file "at least several hundred lawsuits" within eight to 10 weeks but will continue to file lawsuits afterward on a regular basis.
The Recording Industry Association of America, citing substantial sales declines, said it will begin Thursday to search Internet file-sharing networks to identify users who offer "substantial" collections of MP3 music files for downloading. It expects to file at least several hundred lawsuits seeking financial damages within eight to 10 weeks.
Executives for the RIAA, the Washington-based lobbying group that represents major labels, would not say how many songs on a user's computer will qualify for a lawsuit. The new campaign comes just weeks after U.S. appeals court rulings requiring Internet providers to identify subscribers suspected of illegally sharing music and movie files.
The RIAA's president, Carey Sherman, said tens of millions of Internet users of popular file-sharing software after Thursday will expose themselves to "the real risk of having to face the music."
Critics accused the RIAA of resorting to heavy-handed tactics likely to alienate millions of Internet file-sharers.
"This latest effort really indicates the recording industry has lost touch with reality completely," said Fred von Lohmann, a lawyer for the Electronic Frontier Foundation. "Does anyone think more lawsuits are going to be the answer? Today they have declared war on the American consumer."
Mike Godwin of Public Knowledge, a consumer group that has challenged broad crackdowns on file-sharing networks, said Wednesday's announcement was appropriate because it targeted users illegally sharing copyrighted files.
"I'm sure it's going to freak them out," Mr. Godwin said. "The free ride is over." He added: "I wouldn't be surprised if at least some people engaged in file-trading decide to resist and try to find ways to thwart the litigation strategy."
The RIAA said its lawyers will file lawsuits initially against people with the largest collections of music files they can find online. U.S. copyright laws allow for damages of $750 to $150,000 for each song offered illegally on a person's computer, but Mr. Sherman said the RIAA will be open to settlement proposals from defendants.
The RIAA said it expected to file "at least several hundred lawsuits" within eight to 10 weeks but will continue to file lawsuits afterward on a regular basis.
#13
DVD Talk Hero - 2023 TOTY Award Winner
Good for them.
#14
DVD Talk God
I have a serious question....
Let's say I own CD "A" in my collection. I download a song from it using some peer to peer software. Have I broken the law? If so, how and what law?
Let's say I own CD "A" in my collection. I download a song from it using some peer to peer software. Have I broken the law? If so, how and what law?
#15
DVD Talk Hero
how is this raising the stakes? isn't this what they have been doing? isn't this why they had the case against verizon? i guess the only difference is that now they can force the ISP to give them info on the people.
#16
DVD Talk Legend
Originally posted by AGuyNamedMike
Methinks a cyberterrorist group will counterattack, ....
Methinks a cyberterrorist group will counterattack, ....
well methinks a cyberterrorist group hacked my personal pc and took advanage of my bandwidth and my own private music collection by installing a P2P software without my knowledge.
I had no idea my files were open to the P2P community, I never installed any such thing.
#17
DVD Talk Hero - 2023 TOTY Award Winner
Originally posted by *******
I have a serious question....
Let's say I own CD "A" in my collection. I download a song from it using some peer to peer software. Have I broken the law? If so, how and what law?
I have a serious question....
Let's say I own CD "A" in my collection. I download a song from it using some peer to peer software. Have I broken the law? If so, how and what law?
Thye RIAA is targetting individuals that offer large amounts of files for download to others. Take individuals like this out of the equation, and P2P networks suddenly become far less attractive for the average user (you know, the one who downloads songs while never actually offering many, if any, himself).
#18
DVD Talk Hero - 2023 TOTY Award Winner
Originally posted by Venusian
how is this raising the stakes? isn't this what they have been doing? isn't this why they had the case against verizon? i guess the only difference is that now they can force the ISP to give them info on the people.
how is this raising the stakes? isn't this what they have been doing? isn't this why they had the case against verizon? i guess the only difference is that now they can force the ISP to give them info on the people.
To use a music analogy, the song is the same as last week but they will be turning up the volume to "11."
#19
DVD Talk Legend
Join Date: Oct 1999
Location: in Bush territory!
Posts: 11,613
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Fear not, like I said before....the RIAA will be the cause of their own demise. Their strongarm tactics with musicians and consumers alike will eventually lead to their downfall.
#20
Admin Emeritus
Join Date: Jan 2001
Location: Texas, our Texas! All hail the mighty state!
Posts: 12,842
Likes: 0
Received 2 Likes
on
2 Posts
The RIAA said its lawyers will file lawsuits initially against people with the largest collections of music files they can find online. U.S. copyright laws allow for damages of $750 to $150,000 for each song offered illegally on a person's computer, but Mr. Sherman said the RIAA will be open to settlement proposals from defendants.
#21
DVD Talk Legend
It will be interesting to see if the consumer will finally fight back with their pocketbook. While I'm not a big proponent of p2p, I do think this is an extremely poor tactic for the RIAA. They ignored the problem (as well as the potential) until it got totally out of control, and they simply cannot return to the way things used to be.
I think a boycott is in order. I have enough CDs that I haven't listened to in years. I can go a few weeks (or a few months even) without buying anything if it helps put these people in their place.
I think a boycott is in order. I have enough CDs that I haven't listened to in years. I can go a few weeks (or a few months even) without buying anything if it helps put these people in their place.
#25
Banned
Originally posted by Pistol Pete
Freenet here we come!
This is a really dumb move by the RIAA. Talk about shooting yourself in the foot.
Freenet here we come!
This is a really dumb move by the RIAA. Talk about shooting yourself in the foot.