The one-and-only RIAA discussion thread [2003 - part one]
06-25-03, 01:43 PM
#28
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Originally posted by YellowLedbetter
What about the people that are sharing them from overseas?
What about the people that are sharing them from overseas?
06-25-03, 01:44 PM
#29
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They're finished.
They think they've seen piracy up till now, they ain't seen NOTHING yet.
Are they so idiotic not to realize that every time they pull this kind of crap (which costs them millions upon millions in legal costs) they make file-trading more efficient, more impossible to track and more attractive to people?
The RIAA will cause the total collapse of the music industry. And perhaps that's how it should be--in order to rebuild from the junk it is now maybe the only option is annihilation.
They think they've seen piracy up till now, they ain't seen NOTHING yet.
Are they so idiotic not to realize that every time they pull this kind of crap (which costs them millions upon millions in legal costs) they make file-trading more efficient, more impossible to track and more attractive to people?
The RIAA will cause the total collapse of the music industry. And perhaps that's how it should be--in order to rebuild from the junk it is now maybe the only option is annihilation.
06-25-03, 01:55 PM
#30
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Originally posted by Scot1458
How? What do they have to lose? Their sales have been going down for three years in a row...with no end in sight.
How? What do they have to lose? Their sales have been going down for three years in a row...with no end in sight.
It also doesn't help their cause that the quality of music out right now is probably at an all time low. In the mid to late '90s they had musicians like Pearl Jam, Tupac, Sublime, Radiohead, Sheryl Crow, B.I.G., yada yada who gave consumers something worth buying. The top artists I've seen recently in each category (Rap, Rock, Pop, etc) give me very little reason to go out and spend $15 even if downloading never existed.
At least the new Fleetwood Mac album is a turn in the right direction. whew.
06-25-03, 01:57 PM
#31
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Originally posted by Scot1458
How? What do they have to lose? Their sales have been going down for three years in a row...with no end in sight.
How? What do they have to lose? Their sales have been going down for three years in a row...with no end in sight.
06-25-03, 01:57 PM
#32
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Originally posted by wabio
You have to realize that these numbers a somewhat fuzzy. The RIAA wants you to believe that they are suffering a serious setback in sales and it's is ALL due to online piracy. What they don't tell you is they are comparing total sales in the past few years with sales numbers from the late nineties when record profits were being made. It doesn't take a genius to figure out that almost every type of business has suffered recently. It's called a recession, and during which, the first thing people usually cut back on is discretionary spending...like CD's.
It also doesn't help their cause that the quality of music out right now is probably at an all time low. In the mid to late '90s they had musicians like Pearl Jam, Tupac, Sublime, Radiohead, Sheryl Crow, B.I.G., yada yada who gave consumers something worth buying. The top artists I've seen recently in each category (Rap, Rock, Pop, etc) give me very little reason to go out and spend $15 even if downloading never existed.
At least the new Fleetwood Mac album is a turn in the right direction. whew.
You have to realize that these numbers a somewhat fuzzy. The RIAA wants you to believe that they are suffering a serious setback in sales and it's is ALL due to online piracy. What they don't tell you is they are comparing total sales in the past few years with sales numbers from the late nineties when record profits were being made. It doesn't take a genius to figure out that almost every type of business has suffered recently. It's called a recession, and during which, the first thing people usually cut back on is discretionary spending...like CD's.
It also doesn't help their cause that the quality of music out right now is probably at an all time low. In the mid to late '90s they had musicians like Pearl Jam, Tupac, Sublime, Radiohead, Sheryl Crow, B.I.G., yada yada who gave consumers something worth buying. The top artists I've seen recently in each category (Rap, Rock, Pop, etc) give me very little reason to go out and spend $15 even if downloading never existed.
At least the new Fleetwood Mac album is a turn in the right direction. whew.
06-25-03, 01:59 PM
#34
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Originally posted by Scot1458
How? What do they have to lose? Their sales have been going down for three years in a row...with no end in sight.
How? What do they have to lose? Their sales have been going down for three years in a row...with no end in sight.
06-25-03, 02:28 PM
#35
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Big deal. Let 'em go after the Kazaa users. Nobody uses that crap anymore anyway. BitTorrent is the wave of the future, and if you really want to stick stuff up there and not be traced, it's time to start running a Freenet node.
06-25-03, 02:48 PM
#36
DVD Talk Hero
The one time a year I get a copied game, I get it from a friend at work and don't share it or play it online.
For those who may get sued over this I suggest visiting www.creditnet.com for some good info about how to fix your credit since it may go into the toilet because of a judgement against you.
RIAA doesn't expect to make any money off this. The key will be to get a little money from each person to cover the costs of this thing, but the judgement on the credit report will screw a person for years to come.
For those who may get sued over this I suggest visiting www.creditnet.com for some good info about how to fix your credit since it may go into the toilet because of a judgement against you.
RIAA doesn't expect to make any money off this. The key will be to get a little money from each person to cover the costs of this thing, but the judgement on the credit report will screw a person for years to come.
Last edited by al_bundy; 06-25-03 at 02:54 PM.
06-25-03, 02:53 PM
#37
DVD Talk Legend
Originally posted by Otto
Big deal. Let 'em go after the Kazaa users. Nobody uses that crap anymore anyway. BitTorrent is the wave of the future, and if you really want to stick stuff up there and not be traced, it's time to start running a Freenet node.
Big deal. Let 'em go after the Kazaa users. Nobody uses that crap anymore anyway. BitTorrent is the wave of the future, and if you really want to stick stuff up there and not be traced, it's time to start running a Freenet node.
06-25-03, 03:04 PM
#39
RIAA to sue hundreds of Internet users sharing songs online
RIAA to sue hundreds of Internet users sharing songs online
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By Ted Bridis
June 25, 2003 | WASHINGTON (AP) -- The embattled music industry disclosed aggressive plans Wednesday for an unprecedented escalation in its fight against Internet piracy, threatening to sue hundreds of individual computer users who illegally share music files online.
The Recording Industry Association of America, citing substantial sales declines, said it will begin Thursday to search Internet file-sharing networks to identify users who offer "substantial" collections of mp3 music files for downloading. It expects to file at least several hundred lawsuits seeking financial damages within eight to 10 weeks.
Executives for the RIAA, the Washington-based lobbying group that represents major labels, would not say how many songs on a user's computer will qualify for a lawsuit. The new campaign comes just weeks after U.S. appeals court rulings requiring Internet providers to identify subscribers suspected of illegally sharing music and movie files.
The RIAA's president, Carey Sherman, said tens of millions of Internet users of popular file-sharing software after Thursday will expose themselves to "the real risk of having to face the music."
"It's stealing. It's both wrong and illegal," Sherman said. Alluding to the court decisions, Sherman said Internet users who believe they can hide behind an alias online were mistaken. "You are not anonymous," Sherman said. "We're going to begin taking names."
Critics accused the RIAA of resorting to heavy-handed tactics likely to alienate millions of Internet file-sharers.
"This latest effort really indicates the recording industry has lost touch with reality completely," said Fred von Lohmann, a lawyer for the Electronic Frontier Foundation. "Does anyone think more lawsuits are going to be the answer? Today they have declared war on the American consumer."
Sherman disputed that consumers, who are gradually turning to legitimate Web sites to buy music legally, will object to the industry's latest efforts against pirates.
"You have to look at exactly who are your customers," he said. "You could say the same thing about shoplifters -- are you worried about alienating them? All sorts of industries and retailers have come to the conclusion that they need to be able to protect their rights. We have come to the same conclusion."
Mike Godwin of Public Knowledge, a consumer group that has challenged broad crackdowns on file-sharing networks, said Wednesday's announcement was appropriate because it targeted users illegally sharing copyrighted files.
"I'm sure it's going to freak them out," Godwin said. "The free ride is over." He added: "I wouldn't be surprised if at least some people engaged in file-trading decide to resist and try to find ways to thwart the litigation strategy."
The RIAA said its lawyers will file lawsuits initially against people with the largest collections of music files they can find online. U.S. copyright laws allow for damages of $750 to $150,000 for each song offered illegally on a person's computer, but Sherman said the RIAA will be open to settlement proposals from defendants.
"We have no hard and fast rule on how many files you have to be distributing ... to come within our radar screen," Sherman said. "We will go after the worst offenders first."
The RIAA said it expected to file "at least several hundred lawsuits" within eight to 10 weeks but will continue to file lawsuits afterward on a regular basis.
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By Ted Bridis
June 25, 2003 | WASHINGTON (AP) -- The embattled music industry disclosed aggressive plans Wednesday for an unprecedented escalation in its fight against Internet piracy, threatening to sue hundreds of individual computer users who illegally share music files online.
The Recording Industry Association of America, citing substantial sales declines, said it will begin Thursday to search Internet file-sharing networks to identify users who offer "substantial" collections of mp3 music files for downloading. It expects to file at least several hundred lawsuits seeking financial damages within eight to 10 weeks.
Executives for the RIAA, the Washington-based lobbying group that represents major labels, would not say how many songs on a user's computer will qualify for a lawsuit. The new campaign comes just weeks after U.S. appeals court rulings requiring Internet providers to identify subscribers suspected of illegally sharing music and movie files.
The RIAA's president, Carey Sherman, said tens of millions of Internet users of popular file-sharing software after Thursday will expose themselves to "the real risk of having to face the music."
"It's stealing. It's both wrong and illegal," Sherman said. Alluding to the court decisions, Sherman said Internet users who believe they can hide behind an alias online were mistaken. "You are not anonymous," Sherman said. "We're going to begin taking names."
Critics accused the RIAA of resorting to heavy-handed tactics likely to alienate millions of Internet file-sharers.
"This latest effort really indicates the recording industry has lost touch with reality completely," said Fred von Lohmann, a lawyer for the Electronic Frontier Foundation. "Does anyone think more lawsuits are going to be the answer? Today they have declared war on the American consumer."
Sherman disputed that consumers, who are gradually turning to legitimate Web sites to buy music legally, will object to the industry's latest efforts against pirates.
"You have to look at exactly who are your customers," he said. "You could say the same thing about shoplifters -- are you worried about alienating them? All sorts of industries and retailers have come to the conclusion that they need to be able to protect their rights. We have come to the same conclusion."
Mike Godwin of Public Knowledge, a consumer group that has challenged broad crackdowns on file-sharing networks, said Wednesday's announcement was appropriate because it targeted users illegally sharing copyrighted files.
"I'm sure it's going to freak them out," Godwin said. "The free ride is over." He added: "I wouldn't be surprised if at least some people engaged in file-trading decide to resist and try to find ways to thwart the litigation strategy."
The RIAA said its lawyers will file lawsuits initially against people with the largest collections of music files they can find online. U.S. copyright laws allow for damages of $750 to $150,000 for each song offered illegally on a person's computer, but Sherman said the RIAA will be open to settlement proposals from defendants.
"We have no hard and fast rule on how many files you have to be distributing ... to come within our radar screen," Sherman said. "We will go after the worst offenders first."
The RIAA said it expected to file "at least several hundred lawsuits" within eight to 10 weeks but will continue to file lawsuits afterward on a regular basis.
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06-25-03, 03:23 PM
#40
DVD Talk Hero
Re: RIAA to sue hundreds of Internet users sharing songs online
• Quoth Article •<HR SIZE=1>"This latest effort really indicates the recording industry has lost touch with reality completely," said Fred von Lohmann, a lawyer for the Electronic Frontier Foundation. "Does anyone think more lawsuits are going to be the answer? Today they have declared war on the American consumer." <HR SIZE=1>
• Quoth Article •<HR SIZE=1>"You have to look at exactly who are your customers," he said. "You could say the same thing about shoplifters -- are you worried about alienating them? All sorts of industries and retailers have come to the conclusion that they need to be able to protect their rights. We have come to the same conclusion."
"I'm sure it's going to freak them out," Godwin said. "The free ride is over."<HR SIZE=1>
Yeah, that'll teach 'em! The free ride is over!!! Piracy is a thing of the past. If there's one thing the hacker/piracy community does, it's break under pressure. They're certainly not going to develop better methods of evading you. That would never happen. Just shut down Napster! That'll do it!I just hope the technology can progress quickly enough for the recording artists to form independent labels before the RIAA runs the whole thing into the ground.
das
06-25-03, 03:25 PM
#41
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Kazaa is still being used greatly. Bittorrent's great and all, but finding torrents themselves is some work.. then finding one with a good ratio of leechers/seeders is yet another problem.
Either way, Kazaa LITE is the way to go with kazaa, but there is still as Jason would say, IRC to go to and newsgroups. either way, the RIAA can never win this because when you shut down one site, 10 more will go up in it's place.
Either way, Kazaa LITE is the way to go with kazaa, but there is still as Jason would say, IRC to go to and newsgroups. either way, the RIAA can never win this because when you shut down one site, 10 more will go up in it's place.
06-25-03, 03:29 PM
#42
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I wouldn't think the RIAA expects to regain any lost profits or anything like that with these lawsuits. They will be happy if they scare enough people into not sharing files.
06-25-03, 03:31 PM
#43
DVD Talk Hero
Originally posted by Jackskeleton
Kazaa is still being used greatly. Bittorrent's great and all, but finding torrents themselves is some work.. then finding one with a good ratio of leechers/seeders is yet another problem.
Either way, Kazaa LITE is the way to go with kazaa, but there is still as Jason would say, IRC to go to and newsgroups. either way, the RIAA can never win this because when you shut down one site, 10 more will go up in it's place.
Kazaa is still being used greatly. Bittorrent's great and all, but finding torrents themselves is some work.. then finding one with a good ratio of leechers/seeders is yet another problem.
Either way, Kazaa LITE is the way to go with kazaa, but there is still as Jason would say, IRC to go to and newsgroups. either way, the RIAA can never win this because when you shut down one site, 10 more will go up in it's place.
06-25-03, 03:31 PM
#44
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Originally posted by YellowLedbetter
I wouldn't think the RIAA expects to regain any lost profits or anything like that with these lawsuits. They will be happy if they scare enough people into not sharing files.
I wouldn't think the RIAA expects to regain any lost profits or anything like that with these lawsuits. They will be happy if they scare enough people into not sharing files.
The predictions about a rebellious uprising are silly.
06-25-03, 03:41 PM
#45
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Originally posted by JustinS
Bingo.
The predictions about a rebellious uprising are silly.
Bingo.
The predictions about a rebellious uprising are silly.
...
Anyone?
Nah, you're right, that's a horrible idea, let's sue 'em into submission instead.
06-25-03, 03:43 PM
#46
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Originally posted by wabio
Fear not, like I said before....the RIAA will be the cause of their own demise. Their strongarm tactics with musicians and consumers alike will eventually lead to their downfall.
Fear not, like I said before....the RIAA will be the cause of their own demise. Their strongarm tactics with musicians and consumers alike will eventually lead to their downfall.
06-25-03, 03:45 PM
#47
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Originally posted by Breakfast with Girls
Yeah, wouldn't it totally suck if they all got together and set up something like Apple's music store which is doing fantastic sales and shows there is a market for users who want legitimate mp3 downloading in an easy-to-use package?
...
Anyone?
Nah, you're right, that's a horrible idea, let's sue 'em into submission instead.
Yeah, wouldn't it totally suck if they all got together and set up something like Apple's music store which is doing fantastic sales and shows there is a market for users who want legitimate mp3 downloading in an easy-to-use package?
...
Anyone?
Nah, you're right, that's a horrible idea, let's sue 'em into submission instead.
And we all know how much the RIAA [AND America] loves a good lawsuit..
06-25-03, 03:46 PM
#48
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Originally posted by Breakfast with Girls
Yeah, wouldn't it totally suck if they all got together and set up something like Apple's music store which is doing fantastic sales and shows there is a market for users who want legitimate mp3 downloading in an easy-to-use package?
...
Anyone?
Nah, you're right, that's a horrible idea, let's sue 'em into submission instead.
Yeah, wouldn't it totally suck if they all got together and set up something like Apple's music store which is doing fantastic sales and shows there is a market for users who want legitimate mp3 downloading in an easy-to-use package?
...
Anyone?
Nah, you're right, that's a horrible idea, let's sue 'em into submission instead.
06-25-03, 03:47 PM
#49
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Originally posted by sn9ke_eyes
Now why would they do that ? They've got a business model which has been screwing musicians and consumers alike for decades, why change now ?
Now why would they do that ? They've got a business model which has been screwing musicians and consumers alike for decades, why change now ?
06-25-03, 03:50 PM
#50
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God the RIAA doesn't get it. There are plenty of people out there who download music and still go out and buy cd's. I can fall in that category, I do download music from time to time but I've also bought quite a few cd's this year. I am just more selective about what I buy today. And it's not like I was buying a ton of cd's before I got an internet connection. The total amount of music cd's I have is just over 100, and that is including the very first cd's I purchased(back around 1990 I think). All the RIAA is doing is giving itself a bad name and pissing off music listeners.