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Prince, what's the big deal?

Old 07-26-11, 06:10 PM
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Re: Prince, what's the big deal?

Originally Posted by Sean O'Hara View Post
Prince is as great an artist as Madonna.

And I hate Madonna.
I don't think anyone who knew anything about music would put Madonna on the same level as Prince, and I like Madonna.

oh, that wasn't for you, I'm just saying madonna is good but as an artist Prince trumps her in every way and so much so that putting them on a similar level wouldn't make much sense.
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Old 07-27-11, 08:30 PM
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Re: Prince, what's the big deal?

Originally Posted by foofighters7 View Post
I don't think anyone who knew anything about music would put Madonna on the same level as Prince, and I like Madonna.

oh, that wasn't for you, I'm just saying madonna is good but as an artist Prince trumps her in every way and so much so that putting them on a similar level wouldn't make much sense.
I agree. I love Madonna to bits but she's always been a great "pop star", Prince trumps her as an artist in every sense of the word. You cannot compare the two. Comparing Prince with Madonna is like trying to compare and contract The Beatles with The Supremes in the 60's. Madonna has always been great at what she's done, but Prince is in his own universe. Prince is more in Stevie Wonder's league than Michael/Madonna.
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Old 07-28-11, 01:12 AM
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Re: Prince, what's the big deal?

I never liked Prince because I only knew him from the Batman soundtrack and his later 90s stuff that almost sounded like rap.

Then I heard "When Doves Cry" on the radio and started looking into his 80s stuff. Too many good songs.
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Old 07-28-11, 01:56 AM
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Re: Prince, what's the big deal?

The Batman soundtrack (minus Batdance) is incredible as well.
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Old 07-28-11, 03:02 AM
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Re: Prince, what's the big deal?



Argue with this, unreal people are so clueless in this thread. Watch the entire clip.
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Old 07-28-11, 03:29 AM
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Re: Prince, what's the big deal?

Originally Posted by Tom Creo View Post
The Batman soundtrack (minus Batdance) is incredible as well.
Not in my book. That is pretty much the moment I quit caring about Prince's current recordings. I'm a huge fan of his 80's work and I'm glad he's still around performing. I'd lie if said I haven't heard a few good songs here and there in the past 20 years, but he's in line with tons of the greats who sort of lost the plot. Nothing wrong with that IMO.
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Old 07-28-11, 04:21 AM
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Re: Prince, what's the big deal?

I think the problem with Batman is that it capped off a decade where Prince was pretty much one of the defining artists of. From Dirty Mind to Lovesexy he gave us one great album after another... then came Batman. For what it is its a pleasant album and there's a few minor classics on it, but it followed a phenomenal eight-album run that pretty much has come to tower over the rest of his career. I look at Batman for what it is, a throwaway that he did per Warner's advice that he knew would restore some of the commercial clout that he lost with Lovesexy.

To me Diamonds And Pearls was where the tide really started turning. Graffiti Bridge redeemed Batman if you ask me. The movie was horrible but had GB came in 1989 instead of Batman it would be associated with his streak. Diamonds And Pearls was when he assembled the NPG and tried to appeal to the hip hop market. The album was extremely successful especially with Cream being a #1 hit, but I think that album was really the beginning of the decline from Prince being one of "the greats" to being just a "merely good" artist. He's had flashes of greatness since (Gold Experience, Musicology, 3121, Lotusflow3r) but he'll never be a patch on 1980-1990 again. But that's okay, its much like Bowie with 1970-1980.
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Old 07-28-11, 04:57 AM
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Re: Prince, what's the big deal?

You mean Bowie up to '83? ; ) You know, I forgot Graffiti Bridge was after Batman. Not a terrible recording.
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Old 07-28-11, 08:53 AM
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Re: Prince, what's the big deal?

Graffiti Bridge is fine if some of the other artists stuff is left out. I like The Time tracks, but that Melody Cool and Tevin Campbell stuff is crap.
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Old 07-28-11, 01:14 PM
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Re: Prince, what's the big deal?

Originally Posted by Tom Creo View Post
The Batman soundtrack (minus Batdance) is incredible as well.
Disagree, I think the guitar solo in Batdance is pretty mind blowing.
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Old 07-28-11, 01:58 PM
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Re: Prince, what's the big deal?

Yeah, Batdance is one of the better cuts on that disc, mainly because of the funky section that cuts in about halfway thru the song.
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Old 07-28-11, 02:40 PM
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Re: Prince, what's the big deal?

Originally Posted by hdtv00 View Post


Argue with this, unreal people are so clueless in this thread. Watch the entire clip.
The unreal part is people think that's exceptional lead guitar playing. I've been to blues dives and seen more impressive playing by complete unknowns.
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Old 07-28-11, 03:41 PM
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Re: Prince, what's the big deal?

Originally Posted by Mike86 View Post
Prince has never really been my thing. I get that he's talented and I respect him but I wouldn't listen to his music by choice. To me he's always felt like an artist who is too much a product of his time and I just have a hard time getting into his music. Some artists such as Elvis, The Beatles, Sinatra, Springsteen, Dylan, and a bunch more just have a wide appeal that stretches for generations and it doesn't matter what era they're from will always have some level of popularity, I guess personally I don't see Prince as being on that level. He seems like an artist who you liked if you grew up with his stuff but doesn't translate well in the modern times. I might be wrong but that's my opinion.
A product of his time? What does that even mean? All the artists you listed are products of their time. Are you honestly saying music like Elvis and Sinatra are timeless? Your opinion is far too close minded to think that pretty much only white artists can be seen as artists that can stretch their popularity for generations. I don't see the influence Sinatra has had in today's music aside from Michael Buble and Ne-Yo's wardrobe. I do, however, see the influence Prince has had on modern pop music and R&B for the past twenty years. The guy is a legend and deserves to be thought of as so.
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Old 07-28-11, 06:54 PM
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Re: Prince, what's the big deal?

Originally Posted by Robot Rock View Post
A product of his time? What does that even mean? All the artists you listed are products of their time. Are you honestly saying music like Elvis and Sinatra are timeless? Your opinion is far too close minded to think that pretty much only white artists can be seen as artists that can stretch their popularity for generations. I don't see the influence Sinatra has had in today's music aside from Michael Buble and Ne-Yo's wardrobe. I do, however, see the influence Prince has had on modern pop music and R&B for the past twenty years. The guy is a legend and deserves to be thought of as so.
I agree. My boyfriend was born in 1988, four years after Purple Rain came out, yet that soundtrack is one of his favorite albums... and this is someone who generally gravitates to heavy metal.

I think it's more a "I hate the 1980's, that soulless decade ruined music" mentality. Sorry that Prince wasn't around to play Woodstock... he was one of the things that was great about the 80's.
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Old 07-28-11, 07:01 PM
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Re: Prince, what's the big deal?

Originally Posted by cungar View Post
The unreal part is people think that's exceptional lead guitar playing. I've been to blues dives and seen more impressive playing by complete unknowns.
Agreed.

The guitar playing in that video was entirely serviceable but nothing mind blowing.
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Old 07-28-11, 07:02 PM
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Re: Prince, what's the big deal?

Originally Posted by Mike86 View Post
Fair enough I guess I wasn't aware of that. I guess I should re-phrase and say I don't think he has that much appeal to the younger generation of 20-30 somethings. I'd be pretty willing to bet that a lot of people in that age group know who he is but most probably don't really care.
Speak for yourself. I am 31 and a huge Prince fan, I know a lot of people in their 20's and 30's who think he's one of the all time greats. Most of the Prince fanatics I know are around my age group.

I can see teenyboppers who think the sun rises and sets on Bieber and Gaga aren't interested in the man, but people in their 20's and especially 30's are the ones who grew up on him and to us he was up there with Michael Jackson and Madonna in terms of "star power", except musically he was more talented than either of those (Quincy Jones was as responsible for Michael's best work as he was IMO).

Those teenyboppers who thinks Gaga and Bieber reign supreme also can care less about Elvis, The Beatles, Sinatra or pretty much anything else that predates 2005, so it isn't fair to single Prince out as the one artist they don't "get". I post on another board that has a lot of teenybopper stans and the groups like Beatles, Elvis, Springsteen, Stones, even Michael Jackson don't register on the radars of those who worship Gaga and Britney, its "old people music" to them.
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Old 07-28-11, 07:52 PM
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Re: Prince, what's the big deal?

Okay I didn't think people were going to start jumping me for my opinion cripes. I personally think that Prince just screams 80s and doesn't really hold up as well as other artists who seem more timeless. I also can honestly say that I don't think I know one person who is a Prince fan. I know a lot of my friends and acquaintances have heard of him but I've never actually heard anyone say they were a fan. That's not saying they don't like a song or two but it's not anything they'd go out of their way to listen to.

I don't really agree that people who are in their 20s and 30s are who grew up with him. I would think the people who grew up with him in his prime would be more in their late 30s or in their 40s. There may be some exceptions of course and I'm not saying the people I know are the majority but Prince just seems like a more arty type musician who appeals to a more niche crowd. These aren't people who are just into current music either, a lot of them listen to music from all eras (including the 80s).

Originally Posted by Robot Rock View Post
A product of his time? What does that even mean? All the artists you listed are products of their time. Are you honestly saying music like Elvis and Sinatra are timeless? Your opinion is far too close minded to think that pretty much only white artists can be seen as artists that can stretch their popularity for generations. I don't see the influence Sinatra has had in today's music aside from Michael Buble and Ne-Yo's wardrobe. I do, however, see the influence Prince has had on modern pop music and R&B for the past twenty years. The guy is a legend and deserves to be thought of as so.
Yeah, because you know when I typed this out I was totally just going by race . I can think plenty of black artists hold the test of time too those were just some immediate examples that came to my mind.

Last edited by Mike86; 07-28-11 at 08:01 PM.
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Old 07-28-11, 08:01 PM
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Re: Prince, what's the big deal?

Originally Posted by Mike86 View Post
Okay I didn't think people were going to start jumping me for my opinion cripes. I personally think that Prince just screams 80s and doesn't really hold up as well as other artists who seem more timeless. I also can honestly say that I don't think I know one person who is a Prince fan. I know a lot of my friends and acquaintances have heard of him but I've never actually heard anyone say they were a fan.

I don't really agree that people who are in their 20s and 30s are who grew up with him. I would think the people who grew up with him in his prime would be more in their late 30s or in their 40s maybe even 50s. There may be some exceptions of course and I'm not saying the people I know are the majority but Prince just seems like a more arty type musician who appeals to a more niche crowd.
I don't think Prince is THAT embarrassingly 80's. If you play "When Doves Cry" to someone who wasn't alive at the time, and then you play maybe a Wham or Culture Club song from the same era, they're likely going to find When Doves Cry to be much fresher. A lot of the 80's stuff has not survived the decade well, and lives on via nostalgia. Prince was one of the few whose music really survives, along with U2, REM and some others. Most people who hate Prince don't hate him because he was 80's, they hate him because he's "weird" (for years I heard people call him a "****"), but those same people also hate David Bowie so I'd say Prince is in some good company there.

Keep in mind that Prince continued to score big hits until the mid-1990's. He was the soundtrack to a lot of our childhoods. I was born in 1979 and I definitely remember "1999", "Little Red Corvette", "Raspberry Beret", etc... because of my older sister... and he was still scoring Batdance, Cream, 7, Gett Off, etc... well into my junior high years.

Plus you have to consider the crowd you hang with. If your friends hate pop/r&b music (I noticed you didn't list Stevie Wonder as one of the timeless artists, and I don't see any way that one can be disputed), he likely isn't on their radar... if they at all liked anything 1980's chances are he's someone they like. As I said, my boyfriend hates pop music and generally springs for heavy metal and electronica, but thinks Purple Rain is one of the greatest albums of all time and by the time he was even discovering music, Prince's hitmaking days were over.
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Old 07-28-11, 08:24 PM
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Re: Prince, what's the big deal?

Prince's production is very 80's, which is only a problem because at some point some people decided it was uncool for songs to have 80's production styles. But now you see bands reviving 80's sounds because they grew up with it. Prince was doing neo-psychedelia, as he grew up on psychedelic music. It's all cyclical.

And when I last saw Prince live he did a three minute guitar solo that was so good my jaw dropped. I have yet to see that from an unknown at a blues club.
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Old 07-28-11, 08:26 PM
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Re: Prince, what's the big deal?

Another thing, not directed at Mike, but just in general for people who don't "get" Prince, is that Prince has always had the unfortunate fate of being the same age and race as Michael Jackson. While true Prince fans realize that those two are apples and oranges, I think Prince has always unfortunately had to settle for second place because he wasn't as obsessed with the mainstream as Michael. Michael was an entertainer who wanted to be loved, Prince was a musician who wanted to make what sounds good to him.

All we really need to do to contrast how different Prince was from Michael is listen to Bad, the followup to Thriller and compare it with Around The World In A Day, the followup to Purple Rain. Michael took five years crafting the perfect followup and when it came out, was so deliberately overproduced and laboured with catchy pop, dance and r&b songs (and even Dirty Diana for the rock market) to reach the widest audience possible so he could stay on top of the world. Even though Bad sold over 30 million worldwide, its still regarded as a disappointment following Thriller. Michael intended Bad to be as big as Thriller if not more. OTOH. Prince achieved mass megastardom with Purple Rain and just ten months afterwards dropped a fairly uncommercial, unconventional Beatles/Middle Eastern/psychedelic inspired record with a painting on the cover and back without his likeness anywhere to be seen and even the "Prince And The Revolution-Around The World In A Day" thing was in jibberish that was hard to read. Not only that but he didn't even release a single and video for Raspberry Beret until the album had already been on shelves for a month. Instead of wanting to capitalize on the newfound megastardom Purple Rain had given him, he used that power to record the music he wanted and not caring if his audience shrunk drastically. Prince has done ubercommercial things in his career (Batman, Diamonds And Pearls) but usually its a mean to give the label satisfaction so he can continue on the path he really wants to make.

IMO there is a reason there was no controversy when he was inducted into the Hall Of Fame although when Michael and Madonna got in there were plenty of "they're not rock!" detractors. Prince wasn't necessarily rock either (even though he's done his share on rock songs) but there was no way you could deny why he was worthy of being inducted.
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Old 07-28-11, 08:30 PM
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Re: Prince, what's the big deal?

Originally Posted by Suprmallet View Post
Prince's production is very 80's, which is only a problem because at some point some people decided it was uncool for songs to have 80's production styles. But now you see bands reviving 80's sounds because they grew up with it. Prince was doing neo-psychedelia, as he grew up on psychedelic music. It's all cyclical.
I agree, and what is so wrong with being 1980's anyways? The whole 1990's mentality of hating the 80's because it was the previous decade is over. Yes, the 80's gave us crap, but it also gave us some excellent music too (after all, the 90's gave us some amazing alternative music, but the 90's gave us Britney, Backstreet Boys, Spice Girls and Limp Bizkit too)... and only someone who is allergic to anything remotely 80's sounding wouldn't lump Prince in with the second part. For instance, I admit to owning Wham and Culture Club in my collection, but I know its a guilty pleasure (I don't consider Duran Duran a guilty pleasure... hipsters had the turnaround on them a long time ago) but Prince is someone from the 80's I wear that I love with pride.
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Old 07-28-11, 08:59 PM
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Re: Prince, what's the big deal?

Originally Posted by nothingfails View Post
Plus you have to consider the crowd you hang with. If your friends hate pop/r&b music (I noticed you didn't list Stevie Wonder as one of the timeless artists, and I don't see any way that one can be disputed), he likely isn't on their radar... if they at all liked anything 1980's chances are he's someone they like. As I said, my boyfriend hates pop music and generally springs for heavy metal and electronica, but thinks Purple Rain is one of the greatest albums of all time and by the time he was even discovering music, Prince's hitmaking days were over.
Look I just thought of a few as timeless and I didn't mean to leave anyone out those were just examples I thought of right away. I understand other artists of all genres and races are popular as well. They were simply what came to mind at first thought when I typed my reply. R&B generally isn't my favorite genre but I do like some of it and pop music is fine with me too.
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Old 07-28-11, 09:30 PM
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Re: Prince, what's the big deal?

Originally Posted by Mike86 View Post
Look I just thought of a few as timeless and I didn't mean to leave anyone out those were just examples I thought of right away. I understand other artists of all genres and races are popular as well. They were simply what came to mind at first thought when I typed my reply. R&B generally isn't my favorite genre but I do like some of it and pop music is fine with me too.
I didn't mean it in a bad way, just saying that you not knowing any Prince fans probably depends on the type of music your friends love. I've taken shit for liking The Beach Boys in the past before from people who ONLY listen to dance/pop type of music. Because of their tastes, they sadly only know them as "those old farts who sang Kokomo" completely unaware of the brilliance of Brian Wilson, same with these people only knowing Paul Simon as this old guy who made some music in Africa at one point. They only listen to one type of music and have missed out on some AMAZING music because The Beach Boys and Simon And Garfunkel/Paul Simon doesn't register on their radar. The same could go with Prince if he isn't the preferred genre/era someone listens to.
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Old 07-29-11, 02:41 PM
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Re: Prince, what's the big deal?

Originally Posted by cungar View Post
The unreal part is people think that's exceptional lead guitar playing. I've been to blues dives and seen more impressive playing by complete unknowns.
Maybe, but Prince is 5'1", 90 lbs, wears a RED hat and looks like a bad ass while he plays. Dude doesn't even break a sweat and has all the theatrics of a legend. Plus, if we're just talking guitars, I'm sure there are hundreds / thousands more talented... but nobody can argue his overal musical genius.
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Old 07-29-11, 02:59 PM
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Re: Prince, what's the big deal?

All I'm getting from this thread is that Mike86 is a racist.
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