Alec Baldwin accidentally kills DP with prop gun, director shot as well
#501
DVD Talk Godfather & 2020 TOTY Winner
#502
DVD Talk Hero
#503
DVD Talk Godfather & 2020 TOTY Winner
Re: Alec Baldwin accidentally kills DP with prop gun, director shot as well
I knew that the charges wouldn't result in conviction, but that they'd be dropped before trial? No, I didn't expect that.
Did this case go before a Grand Jury? Can't believe it even rose to that level of scrutiny.
Did this case go before a Grand Jury? Can't believe it even rose to that level of scrutiny.
#504
DVD Talk Godfather & 2020 TOTY Winner
Re: Alec Baldwin accidentally kills DP with prop gun, director shot as well
Apparently the gun used on the set had been modified and could potentially fire without a trigger pull.
https://www.abc12.com/news/entertain...0last%20August.
https://www.abc12.com/news/entertain...0last%20August.
#505
DVD Talk Legend
Re: Alec Baldwin accidentally kills DP with prop gun, director shot as well
Apparently the gun used on the set had been modified and could potentially fire without a trigger pull.
https://www.abc12.com/news/entertain...0last%20August.
https://www.abc12.com/news/entertain...0last%20August.
FFS
#507
DVD Talk Godfather & 2020 TOTY Winner
Re: Alec Baldwin accidentally kills DP with prop gun, director shot as well
You two have to be kidding.
Where is the crime of involuntary manslaughter? An actor is assured that the prop gun is safe and unloaded and given to him by a gun wrangler. He is instructed as an actor to point that weapon towards the camera. The gun fires.
Should he be sued? Sure. But where is the crime here?
It's fine if you hate the guy, but be intellectually honest.
Where is the crime of involuntary manslaughter? An actor is assured that the prop gun is safe and unloaded and given to him by a gun wrangler. He is instructed as an actor to point that weapon towards the camera. The gun fires.
Should he be sued? Sure. But where is the crime here?
It's fine if you hate the guy, but be intellectually honest.
#508
DVD Talk Hall of Fame
Re: Alec Baldwin accidentally kills DP with prop gun, director shot as well
You two have to be kidding.
Where is the crime of involuntary manslaughter? An actor is assured that the prop gun is safe and unloaded and given to him by a gun wrangler. He is instructed as an actor to point that weapon towards the camera. The gun fires.
Should he be sued? Sure. But where is the crime here?
It's fine if you hate the guy, but be intellectually honest.
Where is the crime of involuntary manslaughter? An actor is assured that the prop gun is safe and unloaded and given to him by a gun wrangler. He is instructed as an actor to point that weapon towards the camera. The gun fires.
Should he be sued? Sure. But where is the crime here?
It's fine if you hate the guy, but be intellectually honest.
And, no. It wouldn't surprise me one bit if some money changed hands here.
#509
DVD Talk Legend
Re: Alec Baldwin accidentally kills DP with prop gun, director shot as well
Dude shot two people. One of them died. Of course he says he didn't pull the trigger and that the gun "just went off". Isn't that info that would be proven at a trial? This all could have been prevented by anyone on that set following basic safety rules. Anyone could have saved that woman. No one bothered to check that gun. Not the armorer, not the AD and certainly not Baldwin. They all should have and are all to blame. If you're going to use a tool in the course of your job, shouldn't you know how to use it in a safe manner?
And, no. It wouldn't surprise me one bit if some money changed hands here.
And, no. It wouldn't surprise me one bit if some money changed hands here.
#510
DVD Talk Godfather & 2020 TOTY Winner
Re: Alec Baldwin accidentally kills DP with prop gun, director shot as well
Dude shot two people. One of them died. Of course he says he didn't pull the trigger and that the gun "just went off". Isn't that info that would be proven at a trial? This all could have been prevented by anyone on that set following basic safety rules. Anyone could have saved that woman. No one bothered to check that gun. Not the armorer, not the AD and certainly not Baldwin. They all should have and are all to blame. If you're going to use a tool in the course of your job, shouldn't you know how to use it in a safe manner?
And, no. It wouldn't surprise me one bit if some money changed hands here.
And, no. It wouldn't surprise me one bit if some money changed hands here.
There's an armorer on set for the specific function of ensuring a safe set. There are mistakes that can be pointed to all around, but in his capacity as an actor, if he's handed a gun that he's told is cold, unloaded, safe -- I can't imagine anyone, let alone a jury of 12, coming to the conclusion that he's criminally negligent for believing them.
And if that gun was indeed modified in a way that could make it fire without pulling a trigger? There is no case there.
You don't need to imagine an elaborate conspiracy theory to see this case was a total loser, at least as it applied to Baldwin. The armorer? Go ahead and throw the book at her.
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#511
DVD Talk Legend
Re: Alec Baldwin accidentally kills DP with prop gun, director shot as well
Maybe someone in New Mexico realized that they give a lot of tax breaks to movie companies to film in NM, and they don't want to scare off potential projects to pursue a political agenda against one loud-mouth liberal.
#512
DVD Talk Hall of Fame
Re: Alec Baldwin accidentally kills DP with prop gun, director shot as well
To me this is pretty similar to a doctor accidently writing a potentially deadly dose of a medicine for a child. If he does that, he is certainly liable, maybe even criminally negligent. Now it's the pharmacist's job to make sure the doctor didn't screw up. If he doesn't do his job and dispenses that medicine with the instructions provided that could kill the child, then he too could be criminally negligent. But if the parent gives that medicine, in the dose prescribed, as instructed, to their kid and that kid dies as a result, you can't charge the parent with any crime. The parent assumes that the safety protocols were followed, it's not their fault that the safety nets put in place failed them.
There's an armorer on set for the specific function of ensuring a safe set. There are mistakes that can be pointed to all around, but in his capacity as an actor, if he's handed a gun that he's told is cold, unloaded, safe -- I can't imagine anyone, let alone a jury of 12, coming to the conclusion that he's criminally negligent for believing them.
And if that gun was indeed modified in a way that could make it fire without pulling a trigger? There is no case there.
You don't need to imagine an elaborate conspiracy theory to see this case was a total loser, at least as it applied to Baldwin. The armorer? Go ahead and throw the book at her.
There's an armorer on set for the specific function of ensuring a safe set. There are mistakes that can be pointed to all around, but in his capacity as an actor, if he's handed a gun that he's told is cold, unloaded, safe -- I can't imagine anyone, let alone a jury of 12, coming to the conclusion that he's criminally negligent for believing them.
And if that gun was indeed modified in a way that could make it fire without pulling a trigger? There is no case there.
You don't need to imagine an elaborate conspiracy theory to see this case was a total loser, at least as it applied to Baldwin. The armorer? Go ahead and throw the book at her.
#513
DVD Talk Godfather & 2020 TOTY Winner
Re: Alec Baldwin accidentally kills DP with prop gun, director shot as well
Big difference being that the parent doesn't really have a means to check that the doctor and the pharmacist did their jobs correctly. In this case, Baldwin definitely did have the ability to check that the armorer and the AD did their jobs correctly. He did not take the few seconds to actually check. If he is using a tool to do his job, he very well should be able to use it safely. He didn't.
![LOL](/images/smilies/lol.gif)
I agree that Baldwin certainly could have done more, maybe even should have done more. But he wasn't legally required to do more. And if he wasn't required to do it, it's not a crime if he didn't. (Though again, he probably shares civil liability)
#514
DVD Talk Hall of Fame
Re: Alec Baldwin accidentally kills DP with prop gun, director shot as well
Spoken like someone who never had a parent with Google call and ask him if he's sure about the dose. ![LOL](/images/smilies/lol.gif)
I agree that Baldwin certainly could have done more, maybe even should have done more. But he wasn't legally required to do more. And if he wasn't required to do it, it's not a crime if he didn't. (Though again, he probably shares civil liability)
![LOL](/images/smilies/lol.gif)
I agree that Baldwin certainly could have done more, maybe even should have done more. But he wasn't legally required to do more. And if he wasn't required to do it, it's not a crime if he didn't. (Though again, he probably shares civil liability)
#515
DVD Talk Godfather & 2020 TOTY Winner
Re: Alec Baldwin accidentally kills DP with prop gun, director shot as well
Let's keep the analogy going : Since parents have the ability to check on the dosing via Google, should they be charged with a crime if they don't?
#516
Re: Alec Baldwin accidentally kills DP with prop gun, director shot as well
#517
DVD Talk Legend
Re: Alec Baldwin accidentally kills DP with prop gun, director shot as well
Yes, let 12 dipshits off the street say if actors are supposed to check their firearms on the set. Why listen to an entire industry establishment and decades of workplace precedent that says he is not supposed to be doing that?
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Kurt D (04-21-23)
#518
DVD Talk Hero
Re: Alec Baldwin accidentally kills DP with prop gun, director shot as well
Big difference being that the parent doesn't really have a means to check that the doctor and the pharmacist did their jobs correctly. In this case, Baldwin definitely did have the ability to check that the armorer and the AD did their jobs correctly. He did not take the few seconds to actually check. If he is using a tool to do his job, he very well should be able to use it safely. He didn't. And someone died.
That doesn't even get into movie revolvers that are loaded with dummy bullets that are supposed look live but actually have no powder. How is an actor supposed to know the difference? He has to trust the expert.
The DA was an idiot to start down that road.
#519
DVD Talk Hero
Re: Alec Baldwin accidentally kills DP with prop gun, director shot as well
Do we really want actors constantly checking their guns on sets? Opening up, unloading, then reloading bullets into firearms they might not be particularly familiar with? That's going to lead to things like accidental discharges, blockages in the barrels, and other mishaps that may or may not be dangerous (such as a blank not being in the right place and spoiling a take).
It seems like it's best left to an expert, or a team of experts, to have the guns ready for actors, and properly loaded or unloaded, instead of relying on the actors to do it and letting them play around with their guns trying to check them themselves between takes.
Movies sets are chaotic. There are a lot of people there doing things like lighting, moving boom mics around, decorating the sets, getting shots ready, etc. The best course of action is to let a meticulous expert handle these things, even taking into account what happened on the set of Rust.
And, again, there NEVER should have been a real bullet in that gun when it was handed to Baldwin. There never should have been a real bullet anywhere on the set that could have found its way into that gun. It seems like a lot of the people who want Baldwin punished are under the impression that it would have been a normal occurrence to have a live bullet in a gun used as a film prop. I mean, JFC... that's just a fuck-up of colossal proportions. I can't even...
That doesn't even get into movie revolvers that are loaded with dummy bullets that are supposed look live but actually have no powder. How is an actor supposed to know the difference? He has to trust the expert.
#520
Moderator
Thread Starter
Re: Alec Baldwin accidentally kills DP with prop gun, director shot as well
This was John Wick director Chad Stahelski's take on it having firearms on set.
https://www.hollywoodreporter.com/mo...ms-1235343132/
So much of your job is about safety, and you started your career in 1994 doubling for Brandon Lee after he died in an on-set accident with a gun while filming The Crow. How did you process the Rust shooting?
What happened on Rust … I wasn’t there, but the accidents that I’ve been around, seen or been part of have always been human error. It’s never mechanical. So, let’s just talk about firearms. Back in the day, when it all started, they came up with blanks. A blank is a bullet without the projectile, but they couldn’t put you and me in the same shot, 5 feet apart, and one of us pull the trigger. The concussive force coming out at the end of the barrel would be enough to shatter your skull. Accidents like that did happen and people died because of it. But in the past 10 years, they’ve come out with electronic guns, plug guns where it is impossible for anything to come out of the barrel and total CG. That’s the way we do it. That technology is out there for everybody.
Why isn’t everybody using it?
My feeling is that there’s no reason to have a live firearm on set. We can create cities and spaceships and Godzilla and all these things. We have the technology to do the same with firearms. But, for the last 100 years, Hollywood’s been using real firearms. And for prop houses, armorers or supply houses to switch over, it would make their entire stock of real firearms useless. It comes down to the fact that it would cost certain people a great deal of money to switch over. No one wants to say that, but that’s the real reason. You don’t need firearms. The alternative is just going to cost you more money.
What happened on Rust … I wasn’t there, but the accidents that I’ve been around, seen or been part of have always been human error. It’s never mechanical. So, let’s just talk about firearms. Back in the day, when it all started, they came up with blanks. A blank is a bullet without the projectile, but they couldn’t put you and me in the same shot, 5 feet apart, and one of us pull the trigger. The concussive force coming out at the end of the barrel would be enough to shatter your skull. Accidents like that did happen and people died because of it. But in the past 10 years, they’ve come out with electronic guns, plug guns where it is impossible for anything to come out of the barrel and total CG. That’s the way we do it. That technology is out there for everybody.
Why isn’t everybody using it?
My feeling is that there’s no reason to have a live firearm on set. We can create cities and spaceships and Godzilla and all these things. We have the technology to do the same with firearms. But, for the last 100 years, Hollywood’s been using real firearms. And for prop houses, armorers or supply houses to switch over, it would make their entire stock of real firearms useless. It comes down to the fact that it would cost certain people a great deal of money to switch over. No one wants to say that, but that’s the real reason. You don’t need firearms. The alternative is just going to cost you more money.
Last edited by dex14; 04-22-23 at 08:30 AM.
#521
DVD Talk Hero
Re: Alec Baldwin accidentally kills DP with prop gun, director shot as well
Guy Ritchie Only Uses Airsoft Pellet Guns on Movie Sets After Rust Tragedy
Filmmaker Guy Ritchie is a bit of an expert when it comes to on-screen violence, and after the Rust tragedy, he's completely changed how he handles having guns on movie sets. Ritchie, who most recently helmed the new war movie The Convenant with Jake Gyllenhaal, spoke out about where he stands on the situation in a new interview with Newsweek. He revealed that no working guns were used at all for the prop firearms in The Covenant, feeling that "the whole game has changed" because of what happened with Rust.
"That whole thing has changed now, the whole game has changed," Ritchie explains. "We haven't used a real weapon since then. So there were no real weapons. It's the first shoot that we had, which I have to tell you, it's a tremendous relief for all of us."
"That whole thing has changed now, the whole game has changed," Ritchie explains. "We haven't used a real weapon since then. So there were no real weapons. It's the first shoot that we had, which I have to tell you, it's a tremendous relief for all of us."
#522
DVD Talk Legend
Re: Alec Baldwin accidentally kills DP with prop gun, director shot as well
I have no doubt that Baldwin thought the gun wasn't loaded and agree there was no way to get successful case against him. That being said, his rather questionable approach to handling everything left a bad impression on me. Also, the amount of corners being cut during this production was astounding.
#523
DVD Talk Legend
Re: Alec Baldwin accidentally kills DP with prop gun, director shot as well
I have no doubt that Baldwin thought the gun wasn't loaded and agree there was no way to get successful case against him. That being said, his rather questionable approach to handling everything left a bad impression on me. Also, the amount of corners being cut during this production was astounding.
Everybody thinks he should have just shut himself down and closed himself off from the attacks. But I know that when I'm criticized for something I've done, and I think I'm in the right, I want to forcefully defend my actions. Some people are not "Teflon Don" or "just let it go" types.
We all know his lawyers were telling him to completely shut the fuck up, but he has a lifetime of showing that he isn't wired that way.
On L&O shows, they always say that the innocent people freak out when confronted about committing a terrible crime because the idea of them being accused shocks the hell out of them, but the guilty parties have already played out that they might get caught in their minds.
#524
Re: Alec Baldwin accidentally kills DP with prop gun, director shot as well
Baldwin has always been a volatile guy who likes to lash back. So now imagine accidentally killing some woman that he was likely fond of, and people calling you a murderer in public.
Everybody thinks he should have just shut himself down and closed himself off from the attacks. But I know that when I'm criticized for something I've done, and I think I'm in the right, I want to forcefully defend my actions. Some people are not "Teflon Don" or "just let it go" types.
We all know his lawyers were telling him to completely shut the fuck up, but he has a lifetime of showing that he isn't wired that way.
On L&O shows, they always say that the innocent people freak out when confronted about committing a terrible crime because the idea of them being accused shocks the hell out of them, but the guilty parties have already played out that they might get caught in their minds.
Everybody thinks he should have just shut himself down and closed himself off from the attacks. But I know that when I'm criticized for something I've done, and I think I'm in the right, I want to forcefully defend my actions. Some people are not "Teflon Don" or "just let it go" types.
We all know his lawyers were telling him to completely shut the fuck up, but he has a lifetime of showing that he isn't wired that way.
On L&O shows, they always say that the innocent people freak out when confronted about committing a terrible crime because the idea of them being accused shocks the hell out of them, but the guilty parties have already played out that they might get caught in their minds.
#525
DVD Talk Hall of Fame