Originally Posted by Ash Ketchum

Well this is what popped into my head as I was watching it during TCM's last showing of it:



This is what happens when you've seen certain films too many times.

Originally Posted by Ash Ketchum

Well this is what popped into my head as I was watching it during TCM's last showing of it:



This is what happens when you've seen certain films too many times.

Originally Posted by johnnysd

I have been thinking of this for a while, but I realized that I do not like movies that are terribly plotted.

This was crystallized by TLJ. I dont dislike TLJ because of a lot of the SW specific nits, but because at it's core it is a truly terrible story with ludicrous, illogical, ridiculous and outright dumb plotting.

But I see it a lot these days. Nolan's movies are filled with incredibly dumb and unbelievable plot elements and holes and tons of things that make absolutely no sense whatsover.

It seems a lot of movie goers are OK with ludicrous brain dead plotting as long as it leads to something cool in the story, even if it does not hold up to even minor scrutiny.

And blockbusters are not even the only ones guilty. Even the potential best picture Three Billboards... has some seriously dumb and contrived plot points in that second half (along with some annoyingly cliched characters) yet it is winning scripting awards.

So just wondering if a logical, well thought out and realistic plot is important to peoples enjoyment of movies or if it is just very far back in the list of things that make a movie enjoyable for you.

Originally Posted by Josh-da-man

Here are three bugs that really get up my ass:

1. Coincidence. (Rey is living on a planet where she's next door to the map to Luke's secret location and the Millennium Falcon. Only works if she has some connection to the OT crew.)

Originally Posted by rw2516

Didn't Stewart's character have a mental breakdown after she fell? It's credible he wouldn't have paid attention to the news or much of anything else going on for a while after. If I remember right he's still wandering around a few bricks short of a full load when he runs into her the second time.

Originally Posted by Inhumans99

Uh oh...Johnnysd pulled an Oldboy, as this could be discussed in The Last Jedi thread.

I would hope that the film I pay good money to see was put together by folks who at least attempted to string together a series of events in some type of coherent manner otherwise you end up with a bunch of scenes just smashed up against one another with no understanding of why action X by Captain Bob in one scene fits in with what Lieutenant Morgan just did in the scene that follows. Those types of films can end up not just being so bad that they are good but just plain bad films.

While I was entertained by the "final" Resident Evil film I am glad I ended up seeing it on cable, fun to watch or not it really was just a series of "cool" scenes that were smashed together to get you from the beginning of the film to the end with a startling lack of connective tissue to tie one scene in the film to the other (Stuckmann rightfully had major issues with this in his review), so I would have had this nagging feeling of being entertained yet majorly disappointed if I had paid to see it in theaters.

Originally Posted by gryffinmaster

If folks want a little proof that problems like this matter far less to the public at large, or that it really only depends on the subjectivity involved with liking or disliking a movie (or its director), look no further than the very first Star Wars and the incredible amount of coincidence — and lapses in logical thinking — that led to R2-D2 coming under Uncle Owen’s ownership and then into Luke’s with all data intact.

If it absolutely mattered, the Star Wars franchise wouldn’t have even made it off Tattoine. Under more rigid scrutiny, it might not even make it past the Imperial gunners not taking out their escape pod because “no life forms aboard”. Yet here we are, looking ahead to the tenth full-blown movie in this universe and discussing whether logical plotting matters because of The Last Jedi.

Originally Posted by Josh-da-man

1. Coincidence. (Rey is living on a planet where she's next door to the map to Luke's secret location and the Millennium Falcon. Only works if she has some connection to the OT crew.)

Originally Posted by gryffinmaster

If folks want a little proof that problems like this matter far less to the public at large, or that it really only depends on the subjectivity involved with liking or disliking a movie (or its director), look no further than the very first Star Wars and the incredible amount of coincidence — and lapses in logical thinking — that led to R2-D2 coming under Uncle Owen’s ownership and then into Luke’s with all data intact.

If it absolutely mattered, the Star Wars franchise wouldn’t have even made it off Tattoine. Under more rigid scrutiny, it might not even make it past the Imperial gunners not taking out their escape pod because “no life forms aboard”. Yet here we are, looking ahead to the tenth full-blown movie in this universe and discussing whether logical plotting matters because of The Last Jedi.

Originally Posted by Mabuse

Yes. Furthermore all the press surrounding the situation would be photos of the wife, who, according to the movie's rules, is an indistinguishable double of Madeline.

Also Ash, it's stated in the film that Gavin Elster had already killed his wife (I believe by breaking her neck) before ever dragging her up to that tower. He was simply throwing an already dead woman off the tower.

Originally Posted by Ash Ketchum

When I was last watching it, I fell asleep before it got to those parts.

It still sounds utterly ridiculous. If he's got a wife who already looks like Kim Novak, why would he want another one? And why would he then want to kill the first one? And how does a middle-aged man drag a corpse up all those stairs without having a coronary?

Not that plot points like this were ever Hitchcock's strong points. And I'm a fan.

Originally Posted by Ash Ketchum

When I was last watching it, I fell asleep before it got to those parts.

It still sounds utterly ridiculous. If he's got a wife who already looks like Kim Novak, why would he want another one? And why would he then want to kill the first one? And how does a middle-aged man drag a corpse up all those stairs without having a coronary?

Not that plot points like this were ever Hitchcock's strong points. And I'm a fan.

Originally Posted by Mabuse

Ash, You are killing me man. You need to watch it again without taking an old man nap.

Elster doesn’t want a different wife who looks the same, he doesn’t want a wife at all! He wants his wife dead so he can have her fortune.

Originally Posted by clckworang

Pretty much all of these points are explained by the characters in the movie. Judy writes a letter, which she ends up destroying, and we hear her narration as she writes and explains her involvement. Then at the end, when they reach the tower, Scottie explains everything to the viewers when he confronts Judy. It is here when it's confirmed that Gavin had broken Madeleine's neck prior to tossing her. These two scenes pretty much stop the action just to explain all these plot points for you!

Vertigo is probably my all-time favorite movie. I've watched it too many times. I would concede plot holes if you were to point them out, but most of what you've brought up makes me wonder if you've ever actually watched the whole movie.

Originally Posted by mcnabb

A good example of a plot hole I let slide is Superman 1978. The whole movie is great, so I tolerate the part where he turns back to the earth at the end. In fact, I tolerate it even more because of he screams, as that is one of the most powerful moments in the movie.

Originally Posted by rbrown498

I pretty much need a logical flow to a film to enjoy it. I'm okay with the occasional coincidence, but when a film fails to play by its own rules, the rules that it's set up to work under, I can't stand it.

Case in point for me: Colossal. Logical inconsistencies like these pretty much kill my enjoyment of a film.

Originally Posted by tasha99

Man, if travel time inconsistencies bother you, do NOT watch the last season of Game of Thrones!

As for me on this, I think logical plotting matters the most on intricate who dunnits and very realistic movies. I'm okay with some clunky plot elements if the rest of the movie is entertaining.