TomOpus

People leaving the theater pissed off? Y'all acting like this stuff if real.

The Cow

I gave it a 4/5 right after seeing it last night. And after time to let it sink in, I'm getting tix to go see again today (taking a different person with me).

stingermck

Thinking more about Luke. In ANH he just wanted off planet and do something with his life. He never wanted to be the hero of the rebellion, the son of Vader, the last Jedi, the new master, the legend. He even mentions that here, his 'legend'. All that is hard to live up to. And we have seen Luke have problems with committing to something and following through.

I think it was OK that he had doubts here. That he screwed up with teaching Kylo (just like Kenobi did) and that he did not want to be this legend anymore.

Mike86

Not sci-fi tropes but tropes of Star Wars. There’s clearly aspects that are formulaic and it doesn’t pertain to just the films but the novels, video games, comics, etc. I guess I just don’t let stuff like that bother me.

Guru Askew

This is like saying the Macguffin in one Bond movie is different than another. It’s a decoder in one movie but it’s a satellite in the other! Totally different! Yes, the culmination of the scene (two lightsabers vs multiple guards) is actually quite different but it’s foolish to deny that the initial dynamic isn’t an exact copy. Hell, you could use that undeniable fact (that it takes a familiar setting and puts a twist on it) to defend it if you want. You can have it, on me.

Mike86

So since a similar situation played out in an earlier film it can’t happen again or it’s just a copy. Got it.

Guru Askew

I don’t think anyone is saying it can’t happen again. It did happen though. It happens a lot in Star Wars and there are probably at least 20 other examples that are more egregious.

Evoking beloved moments from previous films in the same series is certainly an easy way to pander to the audience and when it comes at the cost of creativity that’s a bad thing. JJ Abrams undeniably leaned on that concept a lot more than Rian Johnson but in this particular instance Johnson was in JJA-mode.

deadlax

as good as any of the films imo. so nice to have a real director making one of these films.

DthRdrX

I don't agree at all. Snoke, as is, is lazy storytelling. We are not talking a henchman like Maul or Dooku, but a character who is, according to Serkis, more powerful than Vader or Sidious.

This movie has things in it I like, and things I hate.

1. We are right back to empire v.s. rebellion 2.0. Been there, done that.

2. The entire plot, of the 'rebel' ships slowly moving away from the First Order, is ridiculous. The First Order ships can't go faster, or call in reinforcements to flank them, or lightspeed a few sips in the other direction? Lol. Imagine if in ESB the Falcon just slowly flew in front of Vader's Executioner the entire movie.

3. The master/apprentice thing is completely unneeded now, because Rey essentially trained herself.

Guru Askew

The Snoke thing makes me wonder how legit the whole LucasFilm Story Group thing is. It struck me as a tug-of-war between the old guard and the new and it actually reminded me of the last few seasons of Dexter had a new showrunner every year who was shaking shit up unnecessarily. Angel and Laguerta are married! Now this season they’re divorced but Angel owns a restaurant! Now this year the restaurant is out of business! I can’t rationalize that Abrams or the story group intended for that to be Snoke’s fate. I feel like Johnson was like “Snoke sucks, I’m gonna kill him.”

In Johnson’s defense, Snoke did suck. Now with the Snoke oeuvre at the end his legacy as “other Emperor” is sealed.

Mountain Biker

I was very excited to see this film, especially after the trailer that was released a few months back. There was so much to explore and so many questions to be answered. I wanted to see these characters we were introduced to in the previous film to develop further. I was expecting a story that would thrill me and leave me on the edge of my seat. That never happened.

Though this film is visually stunning and the score is as always incredible, it has one major flaw: the story/writing. I think a big reason for this is that Rian Johnson wanted to create his version of Star War, and although that results in some interesting ideas, it also discards a lot of what was set up in 'The Force Awakens'. The added humor felt forced and completely out of left field. I mean, Luke just nonchalantly tossing the lightsaber over his shoulder was just...dumb. And speaking of lightsabers, no lightsaber battle? What gives?? Johnson had a nearly 3 hour movie and the closest we came was when they fight the royal guards. Lightsaber battles are what makes a Star Wars movie awesome!

Finn and Rose's plot line was very cringe worthy, and impacts the plot in no way whatsoever. Phasma was also a let down. I thought after the previous film she might go out seeking revenge or at least become somewhat more of a threat to the main characters. Didn't happen

Also, most of the film involves a rebel ship trying to outrun a large imperial vessel. Poe and Leia were great to watch, but nothing significant really happened. The scene where Leia returns to the ship using the force seemed out of place and didn't really fit with what we've seen in previous films. I also thought had she died it would have been much more impactful. It's also worth noting, the entire subplot with Finn could have been avoided had the Vice Admiral put in charge actually told her plan to the crew. Her sacrifice had no emotional weight whatsoever, and her character kinda just appeared and was used up very quickly. Also, how is it there just so happens to be a rebel base right below the rebel fleet. Very fortunate.

Then there's Snoke. In 'The Force Awakens' we believe him to be a huge threat. A menace whose intentions we are keen to discover. When we see him in this film, he demonstrates his immense power. Then he is killed off as if he was of no importance whatsoever. This results in multiple issues in my opinion. It diminishes the set up that was built in the previous film. It means we are unlikely to discover why he formed the First Order, where he came from or what his intentions with Kylo were. Kylo is an interesting character, and I thought it would have been interesting to build up his inner conflict even further. Instead he becomes the main overruling villain, replacing Snoke. the problem is his character doesn't suit that role in my opinion. He works better as a conflicted character, and now he has become leader of the First Order, he is stuck in the villain role. So, we're right back where we started. The First Order and the Rebellion are on equal playing fields, and nothing significant has really changed or developed. Also, how did Rey learn to use the force so quickly? It belittled her development a somewhat substantial amount.


And finally I must mention Luke's sudden departure. Putting aside the fact that many, including Mark Hamill himself fundamentally disagreed with creative choices surrounding his character... Luke's death was just really silly. A scene that totally lacked any emotion or resonance toward the story, he just simply died and that's that: kind of a spit in the face to kill off such a beloved character in such ambiguous fashion.

Overall, I'm quite disappointed in this movie. I have no intention of ever watching it again as I consider it to be a bad film and I can't say I have high hopes for the next instalment.

rocket1312

So are you really trying to say that these things in the second movie of the new trilogy, aren't explicit and intentional references to Empire, the second movie in the original trilogy? The same way that TFA, the first movie in the new trilogy, had a multitude of explicit references to Star Wars, the first movie of the original trilogy? I don't care about comics or books or video games or any of that. And at this point I don't really care if it bothers you. I just need you acknowledge what the filmmakers are doing here.

stingermck

The hyperbole is off the charts.

I hope everyone follows through on never seeing this movie again and never seeing episode 9.

Y'all still going to be there opening night.

Mondo Kane

Well, the good news is that they’re completely running out of callbacks to the OT at this point. Dare I say we might get a lot of originality in the next episode?

bunkaroo

Saw this and gave it 4/5, but if this wasn't Star Wars, it would be 3/5. I liked TFA more than this - same with Rogue One.

Surprised to not see much mention of Leia's near-death scene. I thought they had actually killed her off right there. I'm not sure I'm crazy about how she survived that.

I also didn't care for Poe's "call" to Hux early in the film. Very out of place in the SW universe.

Canto Bight just turned me off with the morality play. One good thing about that part - I had to take a piss really bad at that point, and once Rose and Finn started riding CGI creatures I knew I had my chance. Came back to them leaving with DJ - perfect timing. And the poor kids....ugh.

I'm not crazy about some of the main beats of the story, but I don't really care that they killed off Snoke. I'm OK with them not holding him for the third film.

Another question - why did the bombers in the beginning move so slow? (Other than the plot requiring it.)

I was hoping Rey and Ren would actually go on to do something completely unexpected after the throne room scene, but then we got what we got.

So Luke and Yoda agree the Jedi must end, but then Luke says at the end Rey isn't the last Jedi? Confused on that one.

And how long until we get a Game of Thrones-style meme of Rey with "I AM NO ONE" scrawled on it? Hey at least she wasn't conceived by the midichlorians. I was really expecting that to happen.

Mike86

Why do you care so much about my opinion? I’m not saying you have to agree and I’ve acknowledged a couple times that things that you see as retreads simply don’t bother me. I’m simply saying it’s happened before within the Star Wars universe and if you only want to include films it’s definitely happened and prior to Disney taking over. If you’re going to let it bother you that badly then maybe you should just stick to the Original Trilogy only because fans like you seem to find a reason to be dissatisfied no matter what.

rocket1312

I haven't mentioned it yet, but that was by far my biggest eye-roll of the film. Besides the fact that it feels really weird to do a fake out like that in light of Fisher's real life passing (I know she died well after shooting was already done), it also just looked really dumb. It also didn't add anything remotely valuable to the story. The only thing it added was the opportunity to do yet another fake out with the Poe mutiny.

I didn't love it either, but it was reminiscent of Poe's encounter with Kylo Ren in TFA, so in that sense it felt mostly consistent with his character.

Giantrobo

It's like it's a DC Film thread.

rocket1312

At this point I don't care about your opinion (anymore than I care about anyone else's opinion online) or if any of this bothers you or even how it affects my enjoyment of the movie. All I'm asking is if you recognize these things as being an explicit reference to Empire or not? Yes or no? I'm not angry. I'm not trying to win an argument. I'm not trying to belittle you. You just keep not answering the question and it's making me obsessed!

Mike86

it’s all good. Sorry if I came off defensive. I just thought I answered by saying that some of the retreading doesn’t really bother me. I acknowledge that it happens yes but I don’t see it as anything new and it doesn’t detract from my enjoyment.

DthRdrX

I'm not sure that Yoda meant the Jedi should end, just that it was time to do things differently. FWIW, he showed a lot of regret about the Jedi Order in ROTS. I believe they are setting up Rey as the true beginning of the New Jedi.

One thing this movie confirmed for me that I wondered about most of my life: Yoda intentionally acts demented and crazy to F*** with Luke.

outcastja

Well, I can see how one would be disappointed if you read interviews and such where the actor playing Snoke is hyping the character to be some powerful Sith Lord.

I try to avoid spoilers for this trilogy so my only frame of reference for Snoke was in TFA. And he appeared in it for 5 minutes, so he didn’t leave a big impression on me, just like the appearance of the Emperor in ESB didn’t make a big impression on me. And the Emperor did die in a bitch way in RotJ so Snoke dying in a similar fashion didn’t bother me at all (actually pretty much all the villains in the Star Wars universe die in anti-climatic ways)

MBoyd

They could have easily re-shot stuff and made that the end of Leia in the last year. We know re-shoots aren’t a problem at this point. That would have been too easy and a disservice to Carrie Fishers performance. Not to mention the character arc of Leia. Let it happen offscreen in the crawl of IX and open with a memorial or something.

nmr1723

Just got back from seeing this and although I still have to process much of it, I thoroughly enjoyed it. I avoided all spoilers and trailers prior to the movie which was no easy task. In the end, I think it helped with my enjoyment. It's not close to ANH or ESB, but it's still damn good.

The middle is a bit slow though. The low parts are the casino, Rose/Finn, and Del Toro. This just seemed like a reason to put Maz back into the film and give Del Toro some screen time. I think if you edit this entire sequence and make Rose the tech/coder they need to disable the tracker, then you have a more nimble film.

Hamil is flat out awesome and plays the best version of Luke we've seen yet. Driver is also excellent as Ren. The acting overall is just really solid from everyone. I even liked Hux's over the top acting style more this time.

Yoda was such an awesome and fun surprise and I thought they did an excellent job making him look like old school Yoda instead of prequel Yoda. I love how he's constantly giving Luke shit.

Great beginning space battle, slow ass middle, great ending. Taking my son tomorrow. Looking forward to seeing how it holds up to multiple viewings.

Current SW ranking for me:
ESB
ANH
TFA/TLJ
ROTJ
Rogue One

DthRdrX

Still an underdeveloped character, and a wasted opportunity if they don't revisit him. Also, he was clearly stronger with the dark side than we have seen before.

They have a character using the dark side, who is not a Sith, taking over the galaxy without explaining how not even Sidious knew about him. Not only that, in TFA he clearly proclaimed his knowledge of what happened to Sidious/Vader. This guy ws clearly STRONG with the dark side.

It took Palpatine the entire PT to take over the republic. Snoke did it off screen! I guess the next movie will just feature another new villain worse than both of them with no backstory.