dex14

I’m still holding out hope they Kylo was lying too. But it makes this film even more frustrating.

I just don’t think the movie had any progression.

Rival11

Yep

ViewAskewbian

Put me in the camp that loved this for, well, a lot of the reasons why people hated it. These days, as an avid movie watcher, I want to be surprised, not predict things and sometimes that's hard with so much cookie cutter paint by numbers flicks out there. I went into this thinking I knew exactly what would happen and everything was the opposite and that was a good thing.

I didn't need Ray's character to be linked to an original trilogy character or some grand revelation. The fact that she comes from nothing is more motivation to prove herself as a NEW character in the franchise. I'm glad Snoke turned out to be a strawman. We didn't need another Emperor/Apprentice relationship. When Emo-Ren offed him I cheered not because I thought he turned but because it was a shock and, also, the overthrowing of the master by, love 'em or hate 'em, one of the most intriguing characters in the entire franchise.

What I loved a lot was, also, how Luke wasn't gung-ho to help. In fact, he was against it for most of the film for reasons that I have been pointing out for years. The Jedi, in many ways, were wrong and corrupt in their own way. Luke's speech was on point. When they fail they run. Luke was no different and didn't view himself as a legend...just somebody who wanted to die and the order to die with him.

But there is another...

The cinematography here was stunning. The end of the flick had elements of Leone Westerns which was a gorgeous use of the frame.

But SPACE BATTLES...they were amazing and each one unique. There was little lightsaber play here when you rack it against the ships which I was fine with.

Luke projecting himself at the end was a great ploy to buy the resistance time. I don't think he "died" by his life force draining from doing it. I think he, like Obi Wan before him, choose to become one with the Force knowing he will do more good there. I didn't need him to go ballistic on the new AT-AT. Let's be honest, his fighting was always kinda' clunky and I'm sure years hiding out in a cave after having all he dreams destroyed certainly wouldn't have made him a kick ass fighter people may have thought he became.

People have said this is Luke's movie but I feel, as well, there is a lot of Leia here and Fisher does a great job with some surprising moments.

I admit, the weakest part of the flick was Rose/Finn but small gripe. Speaking of gripes, addressing something said above, I didn't get that Luke was going into the tent to kill Ben. You heard the story from two different perspectives. Kylo's side was that he awoke to find his uncle trying to murder him and he fought back (and, errr, killed a lot of students and burned down the temple). Luke's side is that he was drawn to the darkness in Ren, wanted to confront him, realized there was no fixing him and was then attacked by Ren who proceeded to destroy everything he worked towards. So, yeah, you choose the side you want to believe but Luke's seems more plausible.

The scene with Yoda was very touching and an amazing shot of Luke and him watching the flames of the Jedi burn together.

The best thing this film does for itself is flips the SW-universe a bit on it's head and leaves you with questions going into 9. Things like:
-Most of the resistance is dead. Where do they go from here?
-What does Ren do with his power now?
-We know Leia falls between films. Who leads them now?
-Are Rey and Ren still connected?
-Rey only had three lessons, hardly Jedi training. How does this factor into the final confrontation?

Anyway, I could go on. Every flick is going to have flaws dependent on how it played out in your head before hand. Comparing this to the prequels is a little ridiculous, however. It was epic story telling, amazing visuals and on point action sequences flushing out the new characters, answering questions and setting up new ones. Exactly what a middle movie needs to be.

Solid A

"See ya' around, kid."

spsimmons

Three hours ago, if someone told me I would be seeing Luke Skywalker squeezing green milk into his glass from the huge tit of a sea creature and then sloppily drinking it, getting it all over his beard I would have not believed it.

Maxflier

Right there with you. I didn’t care much for TFA, but I actually saw it twice. This movie I have no desire to ever see again.
A lot of the humor, while funny, pulled me out because it was too current if that makes any sense and didn’t fit a Star Wars movie.
Rogue One wasn’t bad, but I guess Disney’s Star Wars just isn’t for me. The rest of the packed theater seemed to love it, though.

stvn1974

At least it wasn't blue milk or we would have three years of crybabies whining about how the film ripped of the original Star Wars.

ViewAskewbian

You see, that's the only thing I expected in this flick.

The Cow

Just got back and I really liked it. Solid entry for me overall. I thought the Luke plot was very well done, and I'm fine with how it turned out.

I didn't understand Han's dice things from the Millennium Falcon, though. He gave them to Leia, did she know then that he wasn't real? When they disappeared at the end, it looked like they were in Kylo's hand. Was that right, or was that Leia's hand? I'll have to look closer at that next time.

Didn't really understand the bad guy's black BB-8 like droid either. The had several cutaways with it looking at BB-8 in disguise, but nothing never materialized from those shots, unless I missed it.

I think there will be more to Rey's backstory someday too, it felt like Kylo was using that trying to get her mad and make her turn. But I'm fine if it stays the way it played out here.

It is pretty wide open now.

rocket1312

This reminded me a lot of Age of Ultron. In that movie, it was clear that Whedon was trying to make something personal that sort of rose above genre expectations, while at the same time fulfilling those expectations. However, the final product felt overstuffed and kind of at odds with itself. That's almost exactly how I felt about TLJ. Johnson's script is all over the place and if I have one primary beef with the both eps. 7 & 8, it's that they're just too damn self aware. It's like every character knows that they're in a Star Wars movie (and that Star Wars movies are inherently silly) and the movie itself seems completely preoccupied with subverting audience expectations, both on a micro level and on a macro level. That sort of subversion isn't necessarily a bad thing in and of itself, but it's got to feel organic. This felt like the audience was being trolled and it got really irritating after a while. I kept waiting for M. Night Shyamalan to pop out and exclaim "what a twist!"

I'm also really tired of the fan wank. It wasn't quite as in-your-face as TFA, but there still seems to be this need to endlessly regurgitate the older movies. I really did not expect ESB (with a little bit of RotJ sprinkled in) to be overtly referenced time and time again. I thought that was JJ's move to get people back on board after the prequels and figured we were done with it. Sadly, that's not the case.

I don't know that I'll really be able to sort out my feelings on this one until ep. 9 has come and gone and we can see how it fits into the larger narrative. There's a lot to chew on, but as of right now I think I prefer TFA, a movie I liked, but didn't love.

ViewAskewbian

Buttttt, I guess this flick isn't going to become the highest grossing film of all time, huh? Whiners filled their drool bowl on TFA.

Mike86

I think this. That’s too easy of an explanation. It seemed to me that Kylo hoped to gain her trust after killing Snoke and make her feel weak by telling her that her parents were basically scumbags who sold her off so she’d join him. I think there’s more there than we’re being led to believe.

I loved the film personally. I liked that Poe had more time to shine this time around. He felt like a bit of a throwaway character in The Force Awakens but I liked him a lot here.

I also liked how Leia was handled. She seemed like a strong leader and had a good amount to do in this film rather than being reduced to a cameo.

The stuff with Kylo felt predictable to me. It was obvious to me that he wasn’t going to go back to the light side and was just deceiving Rey. I was surprised that he killed Snoke. That really was unexpected to me as I figured he’d be the Emperor type figure for this trilogy. He didn’t really end up doing much at all ultimately other than trying to bring Rey and Kylo together.

The Finn and Rose storyline wasn’t as bad as I’ve been hearing. Not a perfect storyline but I felt like it worked well enough.

The side characters like Chewbacca and BB-8 were well used and I didn’t feel like the Porgs were too cutesy or irritating. Also felt like we got enough of 3PO but felt like R2 could have had a bit more time. I did like how R2 tried to guilt Luke with Leia’s message though.

Rey’s storyline was good overall and I liked her interaction with Luke and also felt like showing that she’s naive enough to believe she could turn Kylo was good. I liked that she showed some flaws rather than just being this perfect Jedi. Like I mentioned earlier I think the line about her parents from Kylo is bullshit. Still curious about where that might go.

Luke was awesome. Hamill really gave a great performance here and I liked the closure we got for his character. Him being reclusive and not wanting to train Rey made sense. I didn’t completely love the reveal that he had a moment of weakness and almost killed Ben/Kylo but I was happy that he didn’t end up turning to the dark side like I sort of thought was a possibility. Yoda’s Force ghost showing up was unexpected but cool to see. I knew that he wasn’t actually on the planet with the Resistance. It seemed easy to figure out as he looked younger like in the flashbacks and after the AT-AT’s attacked him and he brushed it off it seemed obvious. I didn’t expect him to die/become one with the Force but it works. The way I view it Luke will act to Rey in the same way as Obi-Wan did to Luke in The Empire Strikes Back and Return of the Jedi.

Overall I’d say it’s a strong entry in the series. I’ve come to the conclusion that people are always going to find reasons to hate anything that’s not the Original Trilogy at this point. This wasn’t perfect but it was damn good and went in some different directions. I feel like it was the clear middle of this trilogy but that doesn’t make it bad. I’ll be seeing it again for sure.

joe_b

I don't consider this to be a terrible movie. There's some unique stuff in there, but it didn't really work for me on a number of levels. Perhaps my second least favorite in the series (and not really better than TFA, unfortunately). I'll need to mull it over, but I don't see that opinion changing.

Some initial thoughts:

- I found the pacing of the movie to be erratic. You have three different story arcs running at once. Any time one of them was pulling me in, it would cut back to another and lose momentum.

- The Luke training Rey sequence starts out great, but it's all very short lived. Once the island scenes switch the focus to Reylo, the movie started to lose me. I hate how they keep playing up her confused sexual tension with a murderous dictator. The audience lost their shit and started cheering when the two teamed up to fight the praetorian guards. All I could think was "So what? He's still a huge douchebag."

- Star Wars never resorted to flashbacks in the narrative until this movie. We'd seen Force visions, dreams and premonitions before this -- but nothing as blatant as a cut to the past with voice over as one character is describing an event to another. Seeing the academy flashback told from three different perspectives looked and felt like something out of a Harry Potter movie.

- The lack of development for Snoke as a character seems like an utter failure on every level. The CG is improved this time, but the design still looks like absolute shit. The final confrontation with him was nothing I hadn't already seen done much, MUCH better in RotJ.

- Phasma should have stayed in the trash compactor for how little she offered as a character, but at least she gets tossed aside quickly (and hopefully for good this time). I wish they'd killed off Maz Kanata while they were at it.

- Rian bumped off the two most worthless supporting characters in TFA, yet the three new ones he introduced are almost equally lacking.

- Rose never clicked with me. It's as if the movie is shouting "Look audience! She's a plucky underdog with morals! Root for her!". I just didn't care.

- Holdo appeared unnecessary as a character. The same goes for her needlessly covert plan. The payoff was cool to witness, but all the conflict with Poe felt contrived for drama's sake and shoehorned into an already busy film.

- Benecio Del Toro and his shtick as DJ made me forgive Forest Whitaker for Saw Gerrera. I hope that character never comes back.

- The Canto Bight stuff had some interesting design work put into it, but those portions really grind things to a halt. To me, it felt like another movie all together (or something that would be covered in a tie-in comic) and probably should have been dropped. I get Johnson was trying to make statements against war profiteering and animal cruelty, but it came across as heavy-handed. The attempts at comedy with the tiny alien patron seemed to fall flat with the audience at my showing.

- Yoda looks weird. Better than that TPM puppet, but it seemed like his head was too flat or something. It looked like they made him a darker shade of green and he didn't appear to be translucent at all. He also talks sort of goofy at first, like the fake persona he put on before revealing his true identity to Luke in ESB. Fun idea for a scene, but the execution felt a tad off the mark.

- The porgs are cute and not overused. I didn't mind them.

- Carrie is great in this movie. I found her portrayal of Leia to be a noticeable improvement over TFA. Too bad she's sidelined for the entire second act to make way for Laura Dern. I didn't even mind her flying through space like Superman, but I thought the shots of her laying in the med bay afterwards took on an unintentionally eerie quality. I'm happy she lives on in this series, even if we won't be seeing the General again.

- This is one of the few movies that caused me to cry in the theater. Not just misty-eyed, I actually dropped a couple big sloppy tears. I'll let you guess the scene in question. It's the one thing I wanted most out of this movie, so I'm thankful it exists. It was a good scene, but the real emotion came from reading the double meaning the dialogue took on after Fisher's death. I know that meaning wasn't intentional, but it's still a lovely tribute.

- I'm still not crazy about the twist with Luke, but it's not really the worst thing in the movie (on second thought... maybe it is). It probably would have played better if they weren't standing in front of that phony landscape or the giant door. Pair that with the apparent de-aging work done on Hamill and it makes everything feel artificial, like they're walking out into the middle of a video game.

- I realize it's supposed to be a symbolic thing, but the disappearing dice was kind of stupid. "Here's a memento of your late husband... nah, PSYCH!"

Right now, I'm giving it a 3/5. I'll probably pick it up on BD eventually, but I'm definitely not going for round 2 in the theater with this one.

Michael T Hudson

I loved it.

majorjoe23

Ben was totally negging Rey.

MBoyd

I'm on board with it too. The Hardware Wars homage

DthRdrX

I thought it was good but have major problems with Snoke's death.

How is someone that powerful going to come after Darth Sidious, without explanation? This was a character we were told was around before the empire and was aware of everything that had happened. WTF!

mapasu

Loved the movie, hated the fucking 45 minutes of trailers, trivia, and commercials.

JeremyM

I really loved it. And I've always been on the fence about spoilers, but reading the reactions to the spoilers here after the fact have convinced me to try to avoid them on everything I see going forward. The spoilers do sound stupid as hell when you read them, but within the film, I pretty much loved every moment that people hated in the context of a spoiler.

Hamill was brilliant and Fisher was on point as well. I thought she was only serviceable in TFA but she was fantastic this go around (the space floating was cheesy; on the other hand, she actually used the Force!) And it really hit home that she's no longer with us. My wife caught me getting a little emotional during one of her scenes...

I am actually relieved that Rey isn't related to anyone. I was tired of that plot point. I don't think this reveal harms TFA at all.

YODA. And not just Yoda, but the Yoda I loved, not the kind of, sort of Yoda from the prequels. I felt like a little kid when he was up there. I assumed he was green because he's Yoda and so he can do more than being see-through.

I liked the big reveal of Luke being an apparition, and I would be shocked if he doesn't appear as a Force ghost in the next one.

I liked how Snoke was cut down, as did the audience, but like others here, I knew he wasn't "turning good". Dude killed Han Solo, he can go to space hell.

I was cool with the little animal subplot on the casino land, but I get the reaction here to it.

The milk! So weird and unexpected. I like it, TFA (and Rogue One) felt formulaic at times so I liked the oddball moments here.

Some nitpicks:

Where did R2-D2 go after his moment with Luke? Was he there at the end or did I just miss him? I don't recall him rolling around the Falcon when the Porgs were floating around, either.

They sure do like putting people in comas--Finn, Leia, Rose.

The evil BB-8 thing was kind of mishandled with no payoff. Probably should have had him "turn good" and team up with BB-8 as a crowd pleaser.

As some have said, it does get a little busy with subplots and characters popping up again from nowhere.

"Godspeed" seems like a weird phrase for Star Wars, really.

It was probably overlong, but I know that if they released this version as an "extended cut" on video, it would be the only version I'd watch and I'd tell everyone it was the "superior" version. So I'm good with it.

SmackDaddy

Just got back, and really enjoyed it. A bit clunky in spots (they could have done without the casino planet and gotten those 3 together a different way), but...light speed THROUGH that destroyer was AWESOME!! I wonder how they'll handle Leia going forward, sucks that it will probably be a line in the opening crawl.

joe_b

^ I'd say they'll just keep her alive off-screen. Leia had a nice final scene, it would be a shame to taint it. They could just mention she's off establishing a new Rebel base while the kids are on another mission. This movie seemed to hint that Poe would end up as the new Rebellion leader: "What are you looking at me for? Follow him."

Jackskeleton

the casino subplot could have been handled a bit better. but over all, I enjoyed it. Knew it was going to hit the same ESB notes, though I'm sure far less will complain about how it was approached, but if anyone who complained about TFA being too close to ANH isn't complaining about how this is just Empire redone in slightly different order, than they could go to hell..


Also, bad ass battles, sad that we basically won't have anyone from the original trilogy in the last film of it. Skywalker 9 part films ends with a punk ass bitch just like it started, I guess.

Throwing Copper

I enjoyed it, but WTF with killing Luke off. I thought he would be a major presence in Episode 9.

Now, for the final film, we won't have any of the original three main characters in it.

Jackskeleton

i mean, we can't count out Ghost luke from showing up since comical Yoda played a part. Maybe hard ass jedi trainer luke will bug Rey? I dunno. But yeah, no OT characters in the last has got me feeling down.

outcastja

Like with Rian's Breaking Bad episode "Fly" I feel this movie will be very polarizing.

I agree with ViewAskewbian that I enjoyed how I was completely wrong about every plot point in the movie, pretty unpredictable. However, I thought the casino stuff felt a bit out of place and could have been trimmed down.

It is not your typical Star Wars movie which I could see turning off a lot of casual and hardcore fans. But I enjoyed how weird and unique this movie was compared to the previous movies.

I am sort of surprised Disney loved Rian's work to give him his own trilogy. Disney seems to play it safe with their Star Wars and Marvel properties, so it was refreshing to see a big blockbuster like this be so out of the box.

Brack

Really enjoyed it. The space battles were plot driven and didn’t feel like set pieces even if they were.

The script was pretty decent. Was it pretty basic? You bet, but so was the original trilogy. The motivations of the characters made sense. I agree that some of the characters were shortchanged and the casino scenes kind of stuck out, but overall the movie seemed to make sense to me as far as the plot developments.

There were some nice surprises that played out very effectively for me, but they don’t go against what was already established. Kylo wanted to kill Snoke since he felt how powerful Rey was during their battle at the end of TFA, and I predicted rightly that his motivation wasn’t noble. The reveal of Rey’s parents, if true, is absolutely more than fine with me. Having her be related to an already established Star Wars character would seem forced, and I never suspected she was going to have this amazing backstory. I’m kind of relieved actually.

I’m not sure how the Resistance/Rebellion bounce back from having such low numbers that you could fit them all into the Millennium Falcon.