TGM

Hamill has totally been silenced... he came out swinging a bit early on and caused some backlash so he shut up for the sake of Disney's almighty buck. Then Fisher died and I think it really threw him for a loop and I think he truly just doesn't care about any of it anymore. Especially if he feels so apathetic and disassociated from this latest path taken by his most iconic character. To be clear, I blame JJ and KK more than RJ for the festering shithole that was TLJ. RJ was told to go play in the Star Wars sandbox untethered and he did just that, without any apparent direction about how a cohesive trilogy works.

Jay G.

Sure, and he's praised the movie a number of time. What about where he praises the ending?
https://www.comicbookmovie.com/sci-f...-means-a159636
Or the one where he doesn't understand the hate for Snoke's demise?
Maybe his feelings are a bit more complex than a simple love/hate dichotomy.

There's no real evidence that they're stopping him from saying anything. Hell, the Blu-ray includes Mark Hamill talking about his disagreements with the film.

https://www.forbes.com/sites/luketho.../#25ea10996348
That doesn't sound like the act of a company trying to silence him.

I'm not trying to "disprove" your dislike. You can dislike it as much as you want. I have quoted RJ before to disprove statements people have made about his motivations and such, or claims that changes were made "for no reason." RJ himself is the best source to understand his motivations and reasoning.

I'm looking back in this thread, and I can't find an example of my using a link to "prove" I'm right about something subjective. Maybe you can, since you're so sure it exists.

Mike86

Yes, you were just posting all those quotes to try and tell me and others how our feelings are wrong just because you felt like it. It definitely wasn’t to back up your arguments and try and make them sound more valid.

Josh-da-man

No, I don't have you on my ignore list. I reserve my (admittedly short) ignore list for people who clutter up threads with a bunch of crap, and people who are trying to goad me into arguments. You don't fall into either of those camps. I think I only have four or five names on it, and I think a couple of them are now banned, anyway.

Jay G.

This is a severely faulty timeline. Carrie Fisher died nearly a year before the film was released. Mark Hamill didn't start making comments about his disagreement about the character until the movie was released on Dec 15, 2017.

And again, even in the very first interview that he said anything remotely negative, he said positive things as well, practically in the same breath.

You're fabricating motivations that don't exist to justify hand-waving away anything that doesn't fit your narrative of "Mark Hamill hates TLJ."

Jay G.

Where did I say your feelings are wrong? Quote it.

The only recent quotes and cites I've made are to dispute an attempted claim that "Mark Hamill hates TLJ" is true. I've quoted Mark Hamill to show the nuance missing in that claim, and to point out that he's never actually said he hates the film. This is an objective matter: what has Mark Hamill actually said about the movie, and quotes and citations of him are totally valid tools for disputing inaccurate claims.

Mike86

You haven’t explicitly said the exact words but it definitely has come across that way more than once. Whether you do it intentionally or not. Any time someone makes a point you counter and often do so while citing some quote.

TGM

Hamill comes across as disinterested and defeated in nearly every interview promoting this film. I'm sorry you can't see that. My bad, TLJ was awesome.

Jay G.

Well, if I haven't said it, I haven't said it, and maybe you're reading more into what I've written than what is actually there.

I've explained when and why I sometimes make citations and quotes. They're not for the reasons you stated.

I counter a lot of negative arguments. I don't counter everything. I try and counter where I think I can provide a different angle, or where I see faulty logic, or something just factually wrong, or where I don't understand an argument and want clarification.

Do I disagree a lot? Sure, because I liked the movie and I like discussing it with all people, even those with differing opinions.

So now you're stating it's not the content of what he's said, but the tone which is much more subjective and thus harder to clearly dispute. Clever. Of course, it just means you're introducing your own bias into your reading of his tone, and thus lose the "validation" of any sort of objective statement like "Mark Hamill said he hates TLJ." People who think Hamill's tone is otherwise than what you think are no longer "either delusional or a liar," because it's a subjective thing to interpret.

TGM

sigh. no, first it's what he has said, on numerous occasions. I'm tired of this. Goodnight.

Jay G.

Quote where he's said he hates the movie. Because so far you've failed to even once.

nmr1723

Nobody here knows how Hamill feels and I'm not sure how it's relevant to someone liking or disliking the movie. Guinness was apparently not a big fan and Ford has been known to throw SW under the bus as well. Does this mean that I should hate Star Wars too? Sometimes actors have issues with movies or roles they're in. Even Daisy Ridley kind of threw JJ/TFA under the bus at one time.

For me personally, it's not as divisive of a movie as it is to some/many. There's some real shit in there, but there's some good stuff too. For many of us (including me), Empire is put on a pedestal and we all want that feeling to come back or at least come close to the original Star Wars (ANH). I just don't think it's going to happen. I love the property and I'll see every movie they put out, but I just don't feel there's anything left in the tank when it comes to the core characters and story. I think this is why so many people like Rogue One. They didn't lean on the crutch of the original cast to get the story going or to end up ruining things for so many people. It felt like Star Wars, but it wasn't the same thing over and over.

Honestly, I think they should have made 7-9 like they made Rogue One. Focus on a different set of characters trying to rebuild the republic after the battle of Endor. The Empire is still somewhat alive with different people vying for power and there are battles everywhere (Jakku would be good). Get away from the force and the jedi/sith and make it about the other people living and dying in the galaxy.

And for the record I really enjoyed TFA and liked TLJ, but I still think they should have gone in a different direction and moved on from the original cast. 10 years or so ago I think it may have worked better, but it's just been too damn long.

Franchot

The TLJ "excuse makers" will counter with: "Yoda was still learning this lightning Force power while he was in Force Heaven and hadn't perfected it until the time TLJ took place. Jedis can learn even more Force Powers even after they have died. It's in a comic book or on some trading cards somewhere. Look it up."

Obi-Wanma

Qui-Gon learned new powers after he died. It's in Revenge of the Sith.

Supermallet

“Excuse makers”, jeez. Thank you all for reminding me why I stopped posting in this thread in the first place. People here aren’t interested in actual discussion, just scoring a point for their side.

Dan

Toxic fandom, man.

Ranger

Was there anything LFL didn't let Rian do?

Seems like he got to do everything he wanted to do.

fumanstan

I'm not sure that's true given the amount of actual back and forth here. Given the last page or so of the thread, looks to me like some folks are just getting frustrated over having to explain and support every little detail of their opinion. That kind of engagement might be fun for some, but annoying for others after awhile.

Mike86

Exactly. It gets really damn old to give reasoning for not liking aspects of something in the film and then to get pushback. On top of that it feels a bit like some of those that pushback act like their opinions are holier than thou and that those of us who disagree are too simple minded to understand or something.

Supermallet

I don’t buy that argument for the simple reason that the majority of negative posts have come from the same people trough the entirety of the thread. And I really don’t care if someone else hates the movie, but all this stupid “Mark Hamill secretly hates TLJ but Disney is holding his kids hostage so he says nice things about it” is so nonsensical because it’s a gross misrepresentation of what Hamill has actually said, and it’s a shitty appeal to authority that changes nothing about the quality of the movie.

As I said, this thread is not about discussion. It’s just about posturing and point scoring. It’s sad to see this on DVD Talk of all places.

fumanstan

It's a shame that you don't buy it, because from a neutral perspective (I liked the movie, agree that it's the best Star Wars since Empire, but find some aspects of the movie really bad) I find it completely true. You can also say that the majority of the positive posts have also come from the same people, and since you're one of those people that have heaped immense praise on the movie I imagine you just can't see the other perspective. Some posts are silly, I agree, but it's also unfair to lump everyone together because a few arguments border the ridiculous.

Like I said, discussion is fun to an extent, but explaining yourself repeatedly can get tiring. That's what I got from the sarcastic use of the term "excuse makers."

Mike86

I’ve only recently been actively posting in this thread over the last week or so. I’ve been mostly out of it since the film came out last December other than a few posts here and there. Truth be told I’m one who liked the film more upon its initial release. I’ve come to dislike things in it more upon subsequent viewings, and honestly I’m starting to dislike it more because of some of the posters themselves in this thread.

Jason

I think the biggest problem is that when Disney acquired Lucasfilm, they also acquired 40+ years of baggage. Marvel Studios, a new entry in the movie world, was more interested in creating a new universe, where Lucasfilm seems hell bent on detailing every reference in the original trilogy while shoehorning in every abandoned idea from The Adventures of the Starkiller as taken from the Journal of the Whills, Saga I: The Star Wars .

I absolutely loved Rogue One. The final set piece was probably the closest I'll ever get again to what I felt in the summer of 1977 watching the Death Star attack. Haven't seen Solo (not boycotting, just don't see a lot in theaters by myself) but I thought it was a better concept than how the new trilogy is going.

hdnmickey

That's a great point.

Ditto. Really looking forward to seeing Solo when my DMC shipment arrives.

Mike86

I’ve actually liked the Disney offerings fairly well aside from this one. I liked The Force Awakens a ton and still do. I just wish it would have gotten a better follow up. Rogue One and Solo are great. Solo I feel is tremendously underrated actually.