View Poll Results: Blade Runner 2049 (Villeneuve, 2017) — The Spoiler Filled Reviews Thread
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Blade Runner 2049 (Villeneuve, 2017) — The Spoiler Filled Reviews Thread
#201
Re: Blade Runner 2049 (Villeneuve, 2017) — The Spoiler Filled Reviews Thread
I disagree. We're shown several advertisements for Joi bots. The ads tell us in thirty foot tall letters: She'll be what you want her to be. She'll say what you want her to say.
This one said, I love you. I need you. I want to have sex with you. I'll be like a real girlfriend. There exists one special child, and you are The One!
But she doesn't love him. She's a mass-produced bot. She's merely a more sophisticated version of the Facebook feed which populates with stories that are most likely to interest you.
This one said, I love you. I need you. I want to have sex with you. I'll be like a real girlfriend. There exists one special child, and you are The One!
But she doesn't love him. She's a mass-produced bot. She's merely a more sophisticated version of the Facebook feed which populates with stories that are most likely to interest you.
#203
Re: Blade Runner 2049 (Villeneuve, 2017) — The Spoiler Filled Reviews Thread
Didnt Ks scan coming into Vegas advise the radiation level was nominal? Besides if Deckard is a replicant it kills one of the defining themes of Blade Runner....dehumanized man rediscovers his humanity.
#204
DVD Talk Hero
Re: Blade Runner 2049 (Villeneuve, 2017) — The Spoiler Filled Reviews Thread
I treat the new movie as a different story. Did the old movie version of Roy Batty's death scene kill the novel's theme that replicants are different than humans because the replicants are incapable of forming an emotional connection? In the book, replicants are gradually revealed to be monstrous. In the first movie, Roy Batty is a Christ figure when he dies.
If this is a re-imagining instead of a sequel, Deckard can be ambiguous in one movie and specified in another.
If this is a re-imagining instead of a sequel, Deckard can be ambiguous in one movie and specified in another.
#205
Re: Blade Runner 2049 (Villeneuve, 2017) — The Spoiler Filled Reviews Thread
Yeah but youre talking about a film adaption of a novel vs a sequel to said film adaption. I dont follow your argument there.
#206
DVD Talk Hero
Re: Blade Runner 2049 (Villeneuve, 2017) — The Spoiler Filled Reviews Thread
I'd give this a 3.5 out of 5. The pacing was fine, there were some really great aspects, but I felt the story ended with a whimper and just found the last 15 minutes to be kind of trite.
Regardless, it was entertaining and better than I ever would have imagined for a Blade Runner sequel.
Regardless, it was entertaining and better than I ever would have imagined for a Blade Runner sequel.
#207
DVD Talk Limited Edition
Re: Blade Runner 2049 (Villeneuve, 2017) — The Spoiler Filled Reviews Thread
So replicants are impervious to radiation, but not gunshots, beatings, and drowning? If more human than human is to be believed, the radiation would get him too.
#208
DVD Talk Hero
Re: Blade Runner 2049 (Villeneuve, 2017) — The Spoiler Filled Reviews Thread
Well I know I said I didn't want a sequel. But that sounds like another movie right there. Villeneuve (or Shinichiro Watanabe) is one of the only directors I could expect to pull it off. Blade Runner needs to be cerebral, with simmering exposition and a lot of things happening under the surface. Others would try to turn it into an action-adventure film with on-the-nose exposition.
#209
Re: Blade Runner 2049 (Villeneuve, 2017) — The Spoiler Filled Reviews Thread
I still think this Joi was something different. Its been a week now, but what I remember she wanted to experience physical relations with K and took steps to make that happen without Ks direction. I mean it could be an extrapolation made by her programming but I think she was an AI that was sentient with its own wants and desires.
- K bought her a licensed upgrade, the emmanator. She was behaving as programmed when using the device that let her out of the house.
- When Joi set up the sex party, she was working as designed-- she said 'hold still while I sync'. This seems like a reasonable function for a companion hologram. People say 'hey she called and set up a prostitute, this shows she cares'. Honestly it sounds like a paid referral bonus: Hey my computer knows I need new plumbing and called a really good plumber to come over and give me a quote!
- It's misogynist male fantasy: "Gee the sexy companion girl that I bought to please me, is REALLY into me and after she got to know me she TOTALLY would like nothing more than to please me with her own free will." Actually in retrospect, I don't think K ever 'set her free'. He broke her tracking antenna, but freedom would mean releasing her to the cloud? She was always in his pocket and always supported him unquestioningly.
Wallace company (striving to make money) had made millions of 'Joi clones'. I think it would be disaster if the company didn't make sure she could not in any way achieve independence. Think of all the guys she would dump! lol
#210
DVD Talk Hall of Fame
Re: Blade Runner 2049 (Villeneuve, 2017) — The Spoiler Filled Reviews Thread
I still think this Joi was something different. Its been a week now, but what I remember she wanted to experience physical relations with K and took steps to make that happen without Ks direction. I mean it could be an extrapolation made by her programming but I think she was an AI that was sentient with its own wants and desires.
#211
Re: Blade Runner 2049 (Villeneuve, 2017) — The Spoiler Filled Reviews Thread
Why would he need his compliance in the Rachael scene?
Or is the next movie where he does have his 'seed' collected, used it to make a child replicant that they have to go save? (yawn )
#212
DVD Talk Hero
Re: Blade Runner 2049 (Villeneuve, 2017) — The Spoiler Filled Reviews Thread
Originally Posted by Save Ferris
- It's misogynist male fantasy: "Gee the sexy companion girl that I bought to please me, is REALLY into me and after she got to know me she TOTALLY would like nothing more than to please me with her own free will." Actually in retrospect, I don't think K ever 'set her free'. He broke her tracking antenna, but freedom would mean releasing her to the cloud? She was always in his pocket and always supported him unquestioningly.
Last edited by RichC2; 10-16-17 at 12:39 PM.
#213
Re: Blade Runner 2049 (Villeneuve, 2017) — The Spoiler Filled Reviews Thread
It was creepy and misogynist if the girl was really an ai trapped by her programming and confusing the issue of consent by writing the character to be in love with him in the end.
Kind of in the vein of last years movie Passengers with Jlaw and Chris Pratt...
Kind of in the vein of last years movie Passengers with Jlaw and Chris Pratt...
#214
DVD Talk Legend
Re: Blade Runner 2049 (Villeneuve, 2017) — The Spoiler Filled Reviews Thread
I think it was suggested that she did. I think we see Joi through K's eyes we want her to be more than what they're telling us she is. We (or I) find out at the same time that K finds out that he's (we've) been played.
#215
DVD Talk Hero
Re: Blade Runner 2049 (Villeneuve, 2017) — The Spoiler Filled Reviews Thread
I agree, it's all a pitch to "improve the experience" through upgrades. I just mean that she was doing what she was scripted to do.
Last edited by RichC2; 10-16-17 at 12:54 PM.
#216
Re: Blade Runner 2049 (Villeneuve, 2017) — The Spoiler Filled Reviews Thread
I read it differently, there are all sorts of different levels of AI, in her case it's dynamic dialog but otherwise follows a "narrative". Not a fully developed being like the Replicants, and she isn't making her own decisions at any point. It's product, like an elaborate mostly linear decision tree. It's real to him until it's not.
I agree with your take though, she was just a product behaving normally.
#217
DVD Talk Hero
Re: Blade Runner 2049 (Villeneuve, 2017) — The Spoiler Filled Reviews Thread
Oh, yeah, in that case I'd agree.
#218
DVD Talk Hero
Re: Blade Runner 2049 (Villeneuve, 2017) — The Spoiler Filled Reviews Thread
I think Nick is right. People who believe that Joi was something different is really only basing this belief in hopeful fantasy--the movie does not support her being 'special' in addition to her programming.
- K bought her a licensed upgrade, the emmanator. She was behaving as programmed when using the device that let her out of the house.
- When Joi set up the sex party, she was working as designed-- she said 'hold still while I sync'. This seems like a reasonable function for a companion hologram. People say 'hey she called and set up a prostitute, this shows she cares'. Honestly it sounds like a paid referral bonus: Hey my computer knows I need new plumbing and called a really good plumber to come over and give me a quote!
- It's misogynist male fantasy: "Gee the sexy companion girl that I bought to please me, is REALLY into me and after she got to know me she TOTALLY would like nothing more than to please me with her own free will." Actually in retrospect, I don't think K ever 'set her free'. He broke her tracking antenna, but freedom would mean releasing her to the cloud? She was always in his pocket and always supported him unquestioningly.
Wallace company (striving to make money) had made millions of 'Joi clones'. I think it would be disaster if the company didn't make sure she could not in any way achieve independence. Think of all the guys she would dump! lol
- K bought her a licensed upgrade, the emmanator. She was behaving as programmed when using the device that let her out of the house.
- When Joi set up the sex party, she was working as designed-- she said 'hold still while I sync'. This seems like a reasonable function for a companion hologram. People say 'hey she called and set up a prostitute, this shows she cares'. Honestly it sounds like a paid referral bonus: Hey my computer knows I need new plumbing and called a really good plumber to come over and give me a quote!
- It's misogynist male fantasy: "Gee the sexy companion girl that I bought to please me, is REALLY into me and after she got to know me she TOTALLY would like nothing more than to please me with her own free will." Actually in retrospect, I don't think K ever 'set her free'. He broke her tracking antenna, but freedom would mean releasing her to the cloud? She was always in his pocket and always supported him unquestioningly.
Wallace company (striving to make money) had made millions of 'Joi clones'. I think it would be disaster if the company didn't make sure she could not in any way achieve independence. Think of all the guys she would dump! lol
I don't buy the "sparkle in the eyes" argument either. K got his big bladerunner 'retirement' bonus and spent at least part of it on an mobility upgrade for Joi. If she's simply preprogrammed, of course she acted all happy and excited when he bought an expensive Wallace brand device. If I were a designer for Wallace Corp, I'd have her do the same thing.
"Oh, Save Ferris, this is such a wonderful gift! Thank you so much!" Don't all women in the sex trade today act that way? I've never been with a prostitute, or been in the champagne room, or had an expensive mistress, but I gather it happens a lot.
#219
Re: Blade Runner 2049 (Villeneuve, 2017) — The Spoiler Filled Reviews Thread
Wait so Im a creepy misogynist because I think that like the replicants the AI girlfriend is going beyond her created bounds in regards to her autonomy? Wat?
Also this is pretty good:
Also this is pretty good:
#220
Re: Blade Runner 2049 (Villeneuve, 2017) — The Spoiler Filled Reviews Thread
No, I meant, if she was a sentient being--had become a true AI--it would be a bit rapey that he bought her and kept her. As I saw it, she has no sense and is just a tool for lonely guys.
#221
DVD Talk Legend
Re: Blade Runner 2049 (Villeneuve, 2017) — The Spoiler Filled Reviews Thread
Watched it last night on IMAX. I usually don't bother with it, but it was the best time since I knew it would go long.
But I walked out speechless for a couple minutes. I was with a couple of friends and they agreed. One of them had seen it already, and he said it was even better the second time.
This is a rare gem of a movie - the sequel that goes back to the franchise years (decades!) later and manages to reach almost the same heights as the original. I won't say it surpassed the original, but it is one of the few times you can truly say something is a love letter to its predecessor.
I'm certainly glad for the long run time and also the three short films, as there was just so much happening here and I was completely willing to stay in this world for hours and just soak it all in (and that says something when we're describing a hellscape like this).
I also thought for a moment there that Joi was becoming self-aware, but I also think her purpose in the story was to raise that question, if only for a moment, to make us see K choosing his own destiny instead of sticking with the pre-packaged entertainment.
And Ford was just perfect. About the time I started wondering when he would come in, a few minutes later he showed up, so that was a good bit of storytelling there (and I couldn't help but laugh when he made sure the label on the bottle of Johnny Walker Black was facing to the camera).
I was planning on buying the Bluray sight unseen as a companion to the original, but now I'll gladly buy it to own such a masterwork of cinema. As I said, I saw the IMAX version, and I'm hoping there's a Blu version of that to show off all that incredible design.
Also, didn't see anybody else point out this:
Police officer KD36-3.7 - "PKD" - Phillip K. Dick
----------------
Also, here's a write-up I did for a page I help out with:
<iframe src="https://www.facebook.com/plugins/post.php?href=https%3A%2F%2Fwww.facebook.com%2Fthisweekingeekpodcast%2Fposts%2F489813601398887&width=500" width="500" height="740" style="border:none;overflow:hidden" scrolling="no" frameborder="0" allowTransparency="true"></iframe>
But I walked out speechless for a couple minutes. I was with a couple of friends and they agreed. One of them had seen it already, and he said it was even better the second time.
This is a rare gem of a movie - the sequel that goes back to the franchise years (decades!) later and manages to reach almost the same heights as the original. I won't say it surpassed the original, but it is one of the few times you can truly say something is a love letter to its predecessor.
I'm certainly glad for the long run time and also the three short films, as there was just so much happening here and I was completely willing to stay in this world for hours and just soak it all in (and that says something when we're describing a hellscape like this).
I also thought for a moment there that Joi was becoming self-aware, but I also think her purpose in the story was to raise that question, if only for a moment, to make us see K choosing his own destiny instead of sticking with the pre-packaged entertainment.
And Ford was just perfect. About the time I started wondering when he would come in, a few minutes later he showed up, so that was a good bit of storytelling there (and I couldn't help but laugh when he made sure the label on the bottle of Johnny Walker Black was facing to the camera).
I was planning on buying the Bluray sight unseen as a companion to the original, but now I'll gladly buy it to own such a masterwork of cinema. As I said, I saw the IMAX version, and I'm hoping there's a Blu version of that to show off all that incredible design.
Also, didn't see anybody else point out this:
Police officer KD36-3.7 - "PKD" - Phillip K. Dick
----------------
Also, here's a write-up I did for a page I help out with:
<iframe src="https://www.facebook.com/plugins/post.php?href=https%3A%2F%2Fwww.facebook.com%2Fthisweekingeekpodcast%2Fposts%2F489813601398887&width=500" width="500" height="740" style="border:none;overflow:hidden" scrolling="no" frameborder="0" allowTransparency="true"></iframe>
#222
Banned
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Re: Blade Runner 2049 (Villeneuve, 2017) — The Spoiler Filled Reviews Thread
Saw it today. Really enjoyed it. You all seemed to have a debate about the treatment of women. The original Blade Runner is itself cruel to women. Deckert hurts and humiliates Rachael, invites her to a burlesque club that's "not her kind of place", he chases a replicant woman down and shoots her in the back, in fact the only successful Blade Runner retiring that he does is women (Rachael shoots Leon). Oh and the love scene is...not a love scene.
The violence toward women is just one of a myriad other things duplicated in the sequel.
I've got questions about the ending: K says, "Everyone will think you drowned, so you can go see your daughter now." Are we really supposed to believe Deckert is safe? Wallace still wants him and the army of revolutionary replicants want him dead.
Also, I haven't gotten my head around the memory of the wooden horse. How did it get into K's head?
I want to also mention that one of the things I like most about the original, this sequel completely failed to do...film in actual Los Angeles locations!
The violence toward women is just one of a myriad other things duplicated in the sequel.
I've got questions about the ending: K says, "Everyone will think you drowned, so you can go see your daughter now." Are we really supposed to believe Deckert is safe? Wallace still wants him and the army of revolutionary replicants want him dead.
Also, I haven't gotten my head around the memory of the wooden horse. How did it get into K's head?
I want to also mention that one of the things I like most about the original, this sequel completely failed to do...film in actual Los Angeles locations!
Last edited by Mabuse; 10-19-17 at 07:19 PM.
#223
DVD Talk Hero
Re: Blade Runner 2049 (Villeneuve, 2017) — The Spoiler Filled Reviews Thread
Saw it today. Really enjoyed it. You all seemed to have a debate about the treatment of women. The original Blade Runner is itself cruel to women. Deckert hurts and humiliates Rachael, invites her to a burlesque club that's "not her kind of place", he chases a replicant woman down and shoots her in the back, in fact the only successful Blade Runner retiring that he does is women (Rachael shoots Leon). Oh and the love scene is...not a love scene.
The violence toward women is just one of a myriad other things duplicated in the sequel.
I've got questions about the ending: K says, "Everyone will think you drowned, so you can go see your daughter now." Are we really supposed to believe Deckert is safe? Wallace still wants him and the army of revolutionary replicants want him dead.
Also, I haven't gotten my head around the memory of the wooden horse. How did it get into K's head?
I want to also mention that one of the things I like most about the original, this sequel completely failed to do...film in actual Los Angeles locations!
The violence toward women is just one of a myriad other things duplicated in the sequel.
I've got questions about the ending: K says, "Everyone will think you drowned, so you can go see your daughter now." Are we really supposed to believe Deckert is safe? Wallace still wants him and the army of revolutionary replicants want him dead.
Also, I haven't gotten my head around the memory of the wooden horse. How did it get into K's head?
I want to also mention that one of the things I like most about the original, this sequel completely failed to do...film in actual Los Angeles locations!
To your first question-- who knows. The excuses I keep reading is that this was K's story, blah, blah, blah. They obviously had plans for a 3rd film, so there's no point in asking that. I've been asking since the fucking film premiered.
As far as the wooden horse -- Deckard's daughter was the best memory creator (subcontractor, whatever) and I'm sure she implanted them in K right when he was being created in the tube.
#224
Banned
Join Date: May 2006
Location: Conducting miss-aisle drills and listening to their rock n roll
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Re: Blade Runner 2049 (Villeneuve, 2017) — The Spoiler Filled Reviews Thread
I think they successfully matched many aspects of the original, including building in a lot of ambiguity and story points to argue about.
#225
Re: Blade Runner 2049 (Villeneuve, 2017) — The Spoiler Filled Reviews Thread
Maybe she wanted to give him something genuine rather than made up by her wholecloth? I dunno. Ill have to watch it more on home vid. Does anyone remember if she gave any indication that she knew K when he came to talk to her?
*Deckard
*Deckard