By whom is it not considered a cinematic treasure? A handful of Scrooges.

Well put. I can definately agree to disagree with such a well worded opinion. For me I just can't get past the fact that her most lauded peak career films just aren't remotely memorable. they were acclaimed at the time, but they were Oscar bait.

http://www.imdb.com/chart/top?ref_=nv_mv_250_6

I am not disagreeing with your assessment, but I think there are other factors coming into play.

This is completely unscientific but the randomness kind of makes sense, since this is so much a matter of opinion.

I've included the link to the IMDb Top 250 films. Take a look at that list and count the films where a female character is the primary leading role.



Now count the number of films where a female character is the second leading role. (An example would be Casablanca at #33.)
You won't find one in the Top Ten.


The point is: Where are all these great roles for women in great movies that Streep was supposed to be playing all these years?
Movies with female leads since 1970

Annie Hall #219
Million Dollar Baby #205
Mad Max Fury Road #198
Network #190
SW Rogue One #188
SW The Force Awakens #185
Kill Bill #177
Fargo #168
V for Vendetta #153
Room #132
Amelie #77
Aliens #65
Alien #51
Silence of the Lambs #23

All those opportunities for the Hollywood's greatest dramatic actress

And just as one more example of what I am talking about: The Pianist is #42, The Piano is not on the list at all.

Considering that it won Oscars for Picture, Director, Screenplay, Actor, and Supporting Actress*, which is in practical terms a sweep, it should always be in the conversation of best movies ever, and it is not. In fact, start Googling lists of "the best movies of the 70s" and see what you find.

http://filmschoolwtf.com/best-70s-movies/ has it at #24.

*The movie is not considered to have a female leading role

It's a fundamentally conventional picture, no question, but it's so well-written, meticulously made, and superbly acted that a bog standard movie-of-the-week plot becomes extraordinary. Streep is very good in an unflattering role, but I think the standout performance is Hoffman's acting showcase, and Jane Alexander, one of the most underrated of actresses, is right up there with him, with her characteristic quiet dignity. Not to mention Justin Henry.
Given that the '70s is considered the last Golden Age of American film, a #24 ranking is not too shabby. It would probably rank around there on my list of '70s films, if I were to make one, including foreign-language films. Probably even lower. It has many transcendent moments, but the pat, improbable ending is a bit of a letdown, though I do appreciate the last shot.

Good call.

I think the big problem is that the so-called "women's picture" which was so prevalent in the 1930s and '40s and starred the likes of Bette Davis, Joan Crawford, and Barbara Stanwyck migrated to TV with soap operas and hour-long dramas and, eventually TV movies and, much later, Lifetime TV.

I've always wanted to see such actresses as Streep, Glenn Close and Sigourney Weaver in grand movie melodramas of the type that Stanwyck and Crawford used to make, but they just don't make those movies anymore. I also want to see black actresses like Angela Bassett, Vivica Fox and Taraji P. Henson in movies like that. But it just ain't gonna happen, unless it's on TV. "Empire" had traces of it, but when the action shifted to the three sons and the music industry and away from Cookie (Henson), the drama suffered.

Count Doku I love this debate so I'm going to keep arguing a bit. What your analysis of the imdb #250 fails to take into account is the possibility of Streep's presence improving other films if she'd chosen to pursue them. I think we've had this argument before and I singled out Kathleen Turner.

We generally concede that Streep's peak of accolades and nominations were for films that are generally unseen today and not considered great. I've argued previously that Turner, while not being a good actor still managed to work with hugely talented directors and appear in a slew of hit movies and great movies during the same period of Streep's dominance. Turner worked with John Huston, Carl Reiner, Lawrence Kasden, Zemeckis, John Waters, and Coppola in a string of good movies that instead of being forgotten are stilll frequently shown and/or thought of fondly. What if Streep had been in Romancing the Stone instead of Out of Africa which were filmed contemporaneously? I suspect Stone would be even better than it already is.

Wouldn't Body Heat have been a braver choice for Streep? Show your sexy side and elevate the material even more than it already is. How about instead of doing Bridges of Madison County she did 12 Monkeys in 1995? What if she'd been in Gilliam's Brazil, a near perfect film hampered only by a horrible female American lead actress.

My arguement all along has been that she made bad choices. She should have picked better films. She picked Oscar bait instead of less serious films that actually still get watched.

She picked a film called The House of the Spirits in 1993. Why wasn't she taking Sally Fields' roles in Mrs. Doubtfire and Forest Gump? Something people fucking want to see.

For me.....

Hackman
Sally Field

Well, as much as I enjoy this discussion, we are getting into territory that I cannot knowledgeably address because it gets into Streep's personal thinking about her career and show-biz inner workings from 30 years ago.

But let me say what I can.

Bad choices are bad choices either in your opinion or in hindsight.

Could Streep have elevated Romancing the Stone? She made the film that won the Best Picture Oscar instead (Out of Africa). You call that a bad choice?

You wanted her to be in Brazil? In the Kim Greist role?? You understand that Streep STARRED in movies? And by that I mean that she was THE STAR OF THE MOVIE'S SHE WAS IN???

If the only weakness in Brazil is Greist, then why didn't Gilliam hire ANY OTHER ACTRESS? Certainly there was some middle ground between the girl from CHUD and the greatest dramatic actress working.

She made The Bridges of Madison County. Have you seen it? It is an absolutely beautiful romantic story centered around a middle-aged woman. Y'know the kind of story and role that every actress over 40 bemoans the lack of.

Mrs Doubtfire? Forrest Gump? Why would the greatest dramatic actress of her generation be playing small supporting roles in movies that are clearly one-MAN shows?

Give me a list of all the small supporting roles that Tom Hanks has played since getting his first Oscar nomination.

But basically you wanted Streep to do more popular films which means more genre films.

That wasn't her bag, man.

Body Heat 1981
First-time director, Hurt is just his second leading role. Mattie Walker is a character that stands for everything a feminist like Streep opposed.
The French Lieutenant's Woman 1981
Revered director, based on an acclaimed novel, screenplay by a famous playwright, strong feminist themes

The House of Spirits
Based on an acclaimed international best selling novel, award-winning director, an entire cast of Oscar winners and nominees
What would possibly attract Streep to that project? It has stink all over it!

Maybe she took herself too seriously. Maybe she saw herself as a stage actress who would only stoop to do very important films. Maybe she was considered too ugly for parts in the popular movies.

Even if she never made a single movie that made a dime, that wouldn't change the quality of her work. More people are going to see Office Christmas Party than will see La La Land and Whiplash combined.

Tens of millions of people watch National Lampoon's Christmas Vacation every year, and those same people wouldn't watch Mr Hulot's Holiday if you put a gun to their heads.

Bill Murray
Betty White

Seems like Meryl Streeps only crime is being the same gender as the one that only occupy 10%-15%(and of that 10%-15% most favor younger ladies) of the significant leading roles in Hollywood for the most of her adult lifetime. If Glenn Close,Meryl Streep,Viola Davis were dudes not only would they be in more "great" films they would also have been able to singlehandily greenlight book to film adaptations the way a Hanks,Washington,Dicaprio,Pacino,Depp are able to.

DeNiro STARRED in movies, and he's in Brazil.

Body Heat had a first time director who was the hottest screenwriter in HW.

I just wish I could enjoy her in films I like to watch.

For what it's worth, I read her Wikipedia entry and evidently she didn't get along with Pollack on Out Of Africa and after winning the Oscar she placed her price at $4 million per picture and evidently both stories hurt her reputation in HW for a while.

$4m a pic? The nerve of that woman. Get back in the kitchen.

So is Talia Shire the greatest living actress because she was in The Godfather I, II and Rocky?


I think Julianne Moore is an incredible actress. She is very bold in her choices too. Not afraid to do certain things at her age.

Very daring performance in Cronenberg's Maps to the Stars. That's the role she should've been nominated and won the Oscar for, but then again look at Jeremy Irons.

You would think you'd list Gojira.

For whatever reasons --Python fan?-- DeNiro sought out a part in Brazil. And it probably is just one more of the many things that male stars can do that female stars cannot: Take risks with parts without damaging their stature in the industry.

Kasdan was the hottest screenwriter in HW for writing sci-fi/action scripts, and Body Heat was pure B-movie noir.

Like I said I am not in Streep's head, but based on her choices, she clearly thought of herself as a Serious Actress who made Serious Films (not movies, Films).

You dismiss her films as "Oscar Bait".

When the fish keep biting, it is called success.

"Oh my God! The industry I work in keeps awarding me their highest honor. I must be doing something wrong!"

Oh, and the Out of Africa thing. She insisted on doing a more difficult to understand accent because it more accurately matched the way the real life person spoke. Pollack wanted her to tone it down and make it more accessible for American ears.

Again, Serious Dramatic Actress.

Now that you mention it, Haruo Nakajima is still with us and just might be the world's greatest living actor:

So it won some awards last night. Has anyone seen Florence Foster Jenkins? It doesn't even have a thread here. Come on people she's our greatest living actress.

http://forum.dvdtalk.com/movie-talk/...t-helberg.html

It didn't win any awards last night.

But she's our greatest....

Anyway it had a lot of noms and she received the God of All award, anybody seen this shit? Stephen Freers is hit or miss, but when he hits it's pretty good. However, this looks like Kings Speech crap my mom would watch.