stvn1974

Marvel made Live By Night bomb hard so DC would take The Batman away from Affleck.

Giantrobo

Fuckin' Marvel.

robin2099

Don't forget:

-Joe Johnston said he didn't want to work with them again because he hated working with them so much the first time.

-After Patty Jenkins was fired that pissed off Natalie Portman so that she wouldn't come back for Thor 3.

-They forced Shan Black to change the bad guy in Iron Man 3 because they wanted to sell toys.

Mike86

Regardless of issues Marvel has had they haven't really had much impact on the quality of the films. At this point you can't really say the same for DC. It's kind of pointless to compare their flaws but yes they exist. No one disputed that but you anyways as you were trying to paint it out like there's only negative things said about DC.

Josh-da-man

I also can't help but notice that a lot of Marvel's problems come from a-list actors like Norton and Portman. By using up-and-coming actors like Evans and Hemsworth, they avoid ego problems like they do with established guys like Affleck. And Marvel got damned lucky that RDJ, after becoming one of the top actors in the industry, is willing to play ball.

While it hasn't been all smooth sailing at Marvel (Ant-Man, Jenkins, etc.), they have a guy in charge who can steer the ship and keep everything running smoothly when a storm comes up.

Just read a piece on facebook that said Affleck might jump ship on the DCEU after Justice League has filmed. So, if that's true, they're also having problems with their a-listers. And this following the rumor that Leto was such an asshole on the set of Suicide Squad that nobody from that movie wants to work with him again.

Defiant1

Zero chance of a Fincher-caliber director doing a DC (or even a Marvel) movie. The studios exert TIGHT control over these projects, so they don't want auteurs going rogue on them with their own ideas. Journeyman directors only.

Abob Teff

So he's not willing to put his name on it as director, but he's still happy to act in any piece of shit that cuts him a check.

I'm holding out hope that they bring Casey in as Robin.

fumanstan

Since his little resurgence, I don't think he's been in a lot of shitty movies at all.

DaveyJoe

The Nolan trilogy are still the best superhero movies I've ever seen. They just need a solid director like him again, and to move away from the campy shared universe stuff.

Josh-da-man

Here's he bit I saw on facebook about Affleck quitting the DCEU altogether: http://movieweb.com/the-batman-ben-a...role-dc-films/

Seems more like speculation with a click-baity headline than anything else.

Mike86

I heard the same thing on a podcast I listen to but didn't really want to bring it up as I knew people would jump down my throat about it. Honestly if there's any truth to it I can't say I blame Affleck. He worked hard to get his career back on track and it probably isn't worth playing Batman if the films are going to keep receiving poor reviews. I think he has to do at least one more film to fulfill his contract though (I think he's supposed to be signed on for three films currently). If he leaves that will be a pretty big deal though. Having to recast a major character like that again would be rough.

I know you're critical of the MCU but Marvel has proven that the shared universe idea can work extremely well. It should work for DC too but they're going about it in a shitty half assed manner. I don't disagree that the Nolan Batman films are great but they're really different than standard comic book fare and not every superhero hero film should be like them. Hell in all honesty I think that's partially why DC has gotten into their current mess.

DthRdrX

All depends on why he stepped away from directing. If it was because of the studio I can see him walking away. He probably wouldn't say anything until after JL is out though.

nando820

Yeah this ship is sinking fast.. if Justice League bombs is game over.. I don't think Wonder Woman alone can save the DC Universe. Even if that movie is good, I doubt many people would go see it. Superman and Batman are the big audience draws.

Mike86

Yeah I tend to agree that there's a lot hinging on how well Justice League does. If it's another bomb critically I think the ship will have sunk.

stingermck

Female audience should bring in numbers, as well as the fanboys who have always wanted a WW movie.

fumanstan

I don't really think campy is the right word to describe a shared universe at all.

DaveyJoe

I think the shared universe has caused problems all the way back to Iron Man 2, where they started sacrificing the pacing of the individual film to introduce unnecessary characters and set up future films. Now that I've fallen behind with Marvel films I feel overwhelmed trying to get back into them. I prefer Nolan's approach of focusing on one film at a time and holding nothing back. I don't think every comic book movie should have a similar tone, but I'd prefer if Batman movies remain a bit grounded and dark, without shoehorning more fantastical superheros into them.

fumanstan

Outside of the Avengers movies and Civil War, I'd say every other movie doesn't rely on seeing the rest of the Marvel movies. I don't think whatever problems that you feel exist are anywhere near as overwhelming as you think they are. Doctor Strange, Ant-Man, Guardians of the Galaxy are all basically standalone, and Winter Soldier only needed you to watch the first Captain America (as any sequel would anyway). I haven't seen the problems you describe with Iron Man 2 apply to any of the other properties, except arguably Civil War.

Michael Corvin

I wouldn't call them problems but I'm in a similar spot as DaveyJoe. Shoehorning in something just so they can wave their hands in the air and say "look who it is! It's all one big universe! Yea!" is mostly a distraction a lot of the time for me. It's similar to Wolverine being in every damn X-men movie. His scene in Apocalypse was total filler and detracted from the overall plot.

Thus far, setting aside quality, the DC shared universe seems to have been evolving pretty organically in regards to introducing characters.

Mike86

I guess I've never really understood that perspective. The MCU seems to have evolved much more naturally by gradually introducing characters. I also would say that the films can be easily watched on their own individual merits and be easy to understand. Sure the experience is enriched if you've seen them all but for the most part they stand alone pretty easily.

With DC it's like they expect people to just know who these characters are with no real background on most of them. Instead they introduce, hope for the best and then give more backstory later which to me has always seemed backwards.

nando820

Totally agree. if you are going to blame Marvel of shoehorning characters. DC has not only done it more, but did it earlier in their timeline and very poorly executed.

jjcool

I agree and equate that to the Marvel universe getting a head start on the DC universe. Marvel have had the time to build their universe more naturally. DC seems to be trying to jump in at a point that is equivalent to where Marvel is now. Thereby skipping all the background, buildup and foundation.

Bottom line, for me, is if DC makes a good film, I'm going to like it. If they make a shitty film, I'm not going to like it. The same goes for Marvel and any other studio.

Troy Stiffler

The MCU was experimental since Hulk (was that 2000?). DCU just hasn't found its footing yet.

Plus, it's the second to market. If it really wants to be special, it needs to add its own thing, and not copy the MCU.

Kal-El

He can't leave. They've practically built this extended "universe" around his character. If that happens then they really have no choice but to reboot.

Draven

Comics are always having random crossovers and people popping up. Not sure why it's a problem when the movies do it - unless they do it like BvS did. I thought Suicide Squad actually did a good job including Batman.