Tolkien viewing order
01-03-15 | 03:09 PM
#26
DVD Talk Limited Edition
Re: Tolkien viewing order
Simple, start FOTR but then cut to the Hobbit trilogy since those are bookended by scenes from FOTR. Then continue with the rest of the LOTR movies as normal. Duh.
01-03-15 | 05:18 PM
#27
DVD Talk Hero
Re: Tolkien viewing order
I have to disagree.
While it is true that the Hobbit movies have some bloat (things like the Tauriel/Kili romance), most of the added material can either be traced directly to - or is at least consistent with - the material in the LOTR appendices, and even with other materials such as Unfinished Tales.
For example, at the beginning of the second film there is a flashback scene of Gandalf and Thorin meeting in Bree. That event is recorded in Unfinished Tales, and although there are some differences in the film version (most likely for legal reasons), it "really happened". The same can be said of many of the events in the films. Many complained of the inclusion of Legolas in the films, since he wasn't mentioned in the book. But the fact is, he was a Sindarin Elf, and a member of Mirkwood's ruling class at the time of the Dwarves' quest, so it is not really any kind of stretch to assume that he was involved.
Tolkien himself even went so far as to explain the difference in tone between the books as being attributed to Bilbo. When he recorded his adventure with the Dwarves, he was still a (mostly) simple Hobbit, even though he was already under the influence of the Ring. Therefore, the story is told from a very simple perspective. The LOTR story was penned by Frodo after the destruction of the Ring, and therefore is much closer to reality, given his deeper perspective, and the hardships he endured. In a sense, Bilbo's version of "The Hobbit" is the "alternate reality". The actual events, however, were much more in line with what we saw in these films.
Were there theatrical embellishments in the films? Definitely. But were they any more egregious than the embellishments in the LOTR films? Not in my opinion.
While it is true that the Hobbit movies have some bloat (things like the Tauriel/Kili romance), most of the added material can either be traced directly to - or is at least consistent with - the material in the LOTR appendices, and even with other materials such as Unfinished Tales.
For example, at the beginning of the second film there is a flashback scene of Gandalf and Thorin meeting in Bree. That event is recorded in Unfinished Tales, and although there are some differences in the film version (most likely for legal reasons), it "really happened". The same can be said of many of the events in the films. Many complained of the inclusion of Legolas in the films, since he wasn't mentioned in the book. But the fact is, he was a Sindarin Elf, and a member of Mirkwood's ruling class at the time of the Dwarves' quest, so it is not really any kind of stretch to assume that he was involved.
Tolkien himself even went so far as to explain the difference in tone between the books as being attributed to Bilbo. When he recorded his adventure with the Dwarves, he was still a (mostly) simple Hobbit, even though he was already under the influence of the Ring. Therefore, the story is told from a very simple perspective. The LOTR story was penned by Frodo after the destruction of the Ring, and therefore is much closer to reality, given his deeper perspective, and the hardships he endured. In a sense, Bilbo's version of "The Hobbit" is the "alternate reality". The actual events, however, were much more in line with what we saw in these films.
Were there theatrical embellishments in the films? Definitely. But were they any more egregious than the embellishments in the LOTR films? Not in my opinion.
01-03-15 | 06:12 PM
#28
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Re: Tolkien viewing order
Just because a lot of the extra stuff can be traced to Tolkien sources doesn't necessarily mean that it adds to the narrative in a way that enhances the films.
01-03-15 | 06:21 PM
#29
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Re: Tolkien viewing order
I'm no Tolkien expert, just a film aficionado and I would show The Lord of the Rings first to anyone new to the series simply because they are better, tighter, more well made films. The Hobbit is overlong, over stuffed, and spends a great deal of time trying to wring suspense from a great many unremarkable and predictable situations.
Example: The instant Thorin starts acting greedy about the stone the viewer knows that he will eventually come back to being his old self and aid in the fight. We know this because there is nothing else that could possibly happen. We know he isn't going to remain a greedy fuck until the last frame of the film. We know he will reverse himself and redeem himself. So why does Jackson spend 20 fucking minutes making us watch him be warned about his behavior by not one, not two, but three fucking characters? Why do we have to watch him writhe on the floor with echoes of these same warnings in his mind for 3 or 4 minutes? We know he's going to come around and stop being greedy!!! We fucking know it already!!!! Get on with the story!!!!!
LOTR has far less of this.
Example: The instant Thorin starts acting greedy about the stone the viewer knows that he will eventually come back to being his old self and aid in the fight. We know this because there is nothing else that could possibly happen. We know he isn't going to remain a greedy fuck until the last frame of the film. We know he will reverse himself and redeem himself. So why does Jackson spend 20 fucking minutes making us watch him be warned about his behavior by not one, not two, but three fucking characters? Why do we have to watch him writhe on the floor with echoes of these same warnings in his mind for 3 or 4 minutes? We know he's going to come around and stop being greedy!!! We fucking know it already!!!! Get on with the story!!!!!
LOTR has far less of this.
01-03-15 | 06:25 PM
#30
DVD Talk Hero
Re: Tolkien viewing order
Yup. Instead, LOTR has a shitload of Frodo whining, Sam whining, Frodo whining some more, Sam and Frodo reminiscing about the Shire, an extremely awkward on-the-nose conversation about whether or not they'll be remembered in songs or tales (a bit after Sam had a teary speech about the types of stories people remember), more whining, etc.
01-03-15 | 10:49 PM
#32
DVD Talk Hero
Re: Tolkien viewing order
I found both moments far too forced and cheesy. Perhaps if they had been "in passing" and not scenes that were emphasized as important moments, I could have rolled with it. As it stands, they just take me out of the movies. Another scene I hate for that reason is the whole bit in ROTK where everyone enters Frodo's bedroom in Rivendell, one at a time, in slo-mo.
01-04-15 | 12:09 AM
#35
DVD Talk Hero
Re: Tolkien viewing order
More like pedophile scene (although that was clearly not the intent). At least when you see an old man delightedly watching a bunch of little Hobbits bouncing on a bed, whilst said old man laughs excitedly. I'm surprised Family Guy never re-enacted that scene with Herbert since they had him play Gandalf once before.
But even without that final bit, it's an extremely cheesy sequence and far too stagey.
But even without that final bit, it's an extremely cheesy sequence and far too stagey.
Last edited by RocShemp; 01-04-15 at 12:17 AM.
01-04-15 | 09:38 AM
#37
DVD Talk Legend
Re: Tolkien viewing order
I think the production order might work best, since
I am curious if there will be a re-spliced version of the Middle Earth saga that maybe edits a shot of Freeman as Bilbo into FOTR where Holm was in the Gollum's cave sequence. I don't want SW levels of tinkering, but just a few edits for continuity.
Spoiler:
I am curious if there will be a re-spliced version of the Middle Earth saga that maybe edits a shot of Freeman as Bilbo into FOTR where Holm was in the Gollum's cave sequence. I don't want SW levels of tinkering, but just a few edits for continuity.
01-04-15 | 10:02 AM
#38
DVD Talk Legend
Re: Tolkien viewing order
And for the increasingly rare person who has never seen any of these movies and has never heard the "I am your father" line, or more likely kids watching for the first time, 4-5 then prequel will avoid spoilers.
The Tolkien story is Hobbit then LOTR in that order.
01-04-15 | 10:16 AM
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Re: Tolkien viewing order
01-04-15 | 10:21 AM
#40
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Re: Tolkien viewing order
Guys, this is a Tolkien thread. Take the Star Wars bullshit to another thread. kthxbai
01-04-15 | 10:32 AM
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01-04-15 | 10:33 AM
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01-04-15 | 10:56 AM
#43
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Re: Tolkien viewing order
Stay on topic is what I'm asking.
01-04-15 | 11:42 AM
#44
Re: Tolkien viewing order
I love how people are calling for skipping the Hobbit movies due to their flaws. Last time I watched them, I had counted many flaws in the LOTR movies. In many cases they are even the same flaws. Overlong, impossible CGI battles scenes. Extended romantic scenes that would carry more weight if much shorter. Third tier characters that get far too much screen time. Just to name a few.
For me the difference between the two is the number of superior scenes in the LOTR movies. Scenes that are superior to any in the Hobbit movies despite Jackson trying real hard to recreate them.
But I don't consider that enough reason to skip the Hobbit movies all together.
For me the difference between the two is the number of superior scenes in the LOTR movies. Scenes that are superior to any in the Hobbit movies despite Jackson trying real hard to recreate them.
But I don't consider that enough reason to skip the Hobbit movies all together.
01-04-15 | 12:46 PM
#45
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Re: Tolkien viewing order
I love how people are calling for skipping the Hobbit movies due to their flaws. Last time I watched them, I had counted many flaws in the LOTR movies. In many cases they are even the same flaws. Overlong, impossible CGI battles scenes. Extended romantic scenes that would carry more weight if much shorter. Third tier characters that get far too much screen time. Just to name a few.
For me the difference between the two is the number of superior scenes in the LOTR movies. Scenes that are superior to any in the Hobbit movies despite Jackson trying real hard to recreate them.
But I don't consider that enough reason to skip the Hobbit movies all together.
For me the difference between the two is the number of superior scenes in the LOTR movies. Scenes that are superior to any in the Hobbit movies despite Jackson trying real hard to recreate them.
But I don't consider that enough reason to skip the Hobbit movies all together.
01-04-15 | 03:47 PM
#49
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Re: Tolkien viewing order
Nobody who considers that order viable in any way has any business criticising George Lucas's storytelling ability.
01-04-15 | 08:36 PM
#50
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