Wonder Woman (2017, D: Patty Jenkins) S: Gadot, Pine
08-25-17, 11:12 AM
#1676
DVD Talk Limited Edition
Re: Wonder Woman (2017, D: Patty Jenkins) S: Gadot, Pine
I'm not a big fan of that argument. If Cameron said the same thing if Patty Jenkins criticized one of his male characters, "Well she's not a man...." He would get crucified.
Steven Spielberg directed The Color Purple, and it is a great movie. Should he have not directed it because he is white and wouldn't understand the drama of blacks and slavery? I wish Jenkins would have made her point without going down the 'he is not a woman' road.
Steven Spielberg directed The Color Purple, and it is a great movie. Should he have not directed it because he is white and wouldn't understand the drama of blacks and slavery? I wish Jenkins would have made her point without going down the 'he is not a woman' road.
08-25-17, 11:17 AM
#1677
DVD Talk Godfather
Re: Wonder Woman (2017, D: Patty Jenkins) S: Gadot, Pine
'Eh, guys are pretty one-dimensional. It's hard to screw up a male character no matter what sex is writing for him. The opposite cannot be said for men writing for female characters.
Also, as pointed out previously, Aliens and Terminator's biggest draw are not the female characters. It's the, ahem, aliens and violent robots. It doesn't matter how well written Cameron made Ripley and Conners, they are not the draw of those films. They definitely make their respective films stronger, but it seems like revisionist history to say the ladies are the centerpiece.
Also, as pointed out previously, Aliens and Terminator's biggest draw are not the female characters. It's the, ahem, aliens and violent robots. It doesn't matter how well written Cameron made Ripley and Conners, they are not the draw of those films. They definitely make their respective films stronger, but it seems like revisionist history to say the ladies are the centerpiece.
08-25-17, 11:38 AM
#1678
DVD Talk Legend
Re: Wonder Woman (2017, D: Patty Jenkins) S: Gadot, Pine
Jim Cameron is just trying get publicity for T2 being in theaters this weekend.
08-25-17, 11:51 AM
#1679
Re: Wonder Woman (2017, D: Patty Jenkins) S: Gadot, Pine
I think Cameron should have made the argument more about how he was the one of the first directors to write strong female leads into action/scifi genre movies. The one thing that annoyed me about the 'Girl Power' BS during the Wonder Woman hype last summer was they were essentially saying this was the first, and Cameron has a right to lay that claim.
If Wonder Woman is someones first exposure to a "kick ass woman" than that's how it is for that person. It's not their fault they haven't seen a previous example. And even if they did, it may not have resonated with them.
I think Aliens marketed Sigourney. Terminator 2 was definitely all about Arnold, although he was also the biggest action star in the universe at the time.
08-25-17, 11:55 AM
#1680
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Re: Wonder Woman (2017, D: Patty Jenkins) S: Gadot, Pine
The caveat, as Jenkins explains, is that Cameron is not a woman. That's the rub -- and folks that think like that (Cameron) will always be on the outside looking in and saying things like "I don't get it." Duh, of course you don't, you're not a woman. I don't want to get political in this thread, but this goes for several of the groups rightfully protesting out there like BLM, etc.
I would also say that the last time we had a female-centric film was in QT's Kill Bill. Granted, that was under the veil of a grind house/exploitation flick, so it didn't necessarily carry the weight of the most popular female super heroine of all time.
If you want to know more -- there's an excellent book called The Secret History of Wonder Woman.
I would also say that the last time we had a female-centric film was in QT's Kill Bill. Granted, that was under the veil of a grind house/exploitation flick, so it didn't necessarily carry the weight of the most popular female super heroine of all time.
If you want to know more -- there's an excellent book called The Secret History of Wonder Woman.
No female centric film since Kill Bill? How about Grindhouse? How about Lucy and Salt and Ghost in the Shell?
08-25-17, 11:57 AM
#1681
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Re: Wonder Woman (2017, D: Patty Jenkins) S: Gadot, Pine
'Eh, guys are pretty one-dimensional. It's hard to screw up a male character no matter what sex is writing for him. The opposite cannot be said for men writing for female characters.
Also, as pointed out previously, Aliens and Terminator's biggest draw are not the female characters. It's the, ahem, aliens and violent robots. It doesn't matter how well written Cameron made Ripley and Conners, they are not the draw of those films. They definitely make their respective films stronger, but it seems like revisionist history to say the ladies are the centerpiece.
Also, as pointed out previously, Aliens and Terminator's biggest draw are not the female characters. It's the, ahem, aliens and violent robots. It doesn't matter how well written Cameron made Ripley and Conners, they are not the draw of those films. They definitely make their respective films stronger, but it seems like revisionist history to say the ladies are the centerpiece.
08-25-17, 12:02 PM
#1682
Re: Wonder Woman (2017, D: Patty Jenkins) S: Gadot, Pine
Weaver almost didn't make it into the movie. Cameron wrote the script around Ripley without knowing that 20th Century Fox didn't have a deal in place with the actress. The studio ordered him to write her out of the picture, but he threatened to walk instead.
Eventually, the studio acknowledged Weaver was essential to the film and agreed to pay her $1 million, her biggest paycheck yet at that point in her career. It was about 30 times what she was paid in 1979 for the initial "Alien," when she was an unknown.
Eventually, the studio acknowledged Weaver was essential to the film and agreed to pay her $1 million, her biggest paycheck yet at that point in her career. It was about 30 times what she was paid in 1979 for the initial "Alien," when she was an unknown.
08-25-17, 12:15 PM
#1683
DVD Talk Hero
Re: Wonder Woman (2017, D: Patty Jenkins) S: Gadot, Pine
The point is that Wonder Woman is ABOUT Wonder Woman and the power of being a woman. T2 and Aliens are not about the power of being a woman.
I know so many women (who are aware of Cameron's movies too) who adored Wonder Woman. In here we have a bunch of guys who don't seem to understand what the impact was like for women to see someone like her on the big screen. That just goes to show that yeah, guys don't get it. Nor do they need to.
I know so many women (who are aware of Cameron's movies too) who adored Wonder Woman. In here we have a bunch of guys who don't seem to understand what the impact was like for women to see someone like her on the big screen. That just goes to show that yeah, guys don't get it. Nor do they need to.
08-25-17, 12:32 PM
#1684
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Re: Wonder Woman (2017, D: Patty Jenkins) S: Gadot, Pine
The point is that Wonder Woman is ABOUT Wonder Woman and the power of being a woman. T2 and Aliens are not about the power of being a woman.
I know so many women (who are aware of Cameron's movies too) who adored Wonder Woman. In here we have a bunch of guys who don't seem to understand what the impact was like for women to see someone like her on the big screen. That just goes to show that yeah, guys don't get it. Nor do they need to.
I know so many women (who are aware of Cameron's movies too) who adored Wonder Woman. In here we have a bunch of guys who don't seem to understand what the impact was like for women to see someone like her on the big screen. That just goes to show that yeah, guys don't get it. Nor do they need to.
The funny part is they don't even understand that they don't get it.
08-25-17, 12:44 PM
#1685
Re: Wonder Woman (2017, D: Patty Jenkins) S: Gadot, Pine
The point is that Wonder Woman is ABOUT Wonder Woman and the power of being a woman. T2 and Aliens are not about the power of being a woman.
I know so many women (who are aware of Cameron's movies too) who adored Wonder Woman. In here we have a bunch of guys who don't seem to understand what the impact was like for women to see someone like her on the big screen. That just goes to show that yeah, guys don't get it. Nor do they need to.
I know so many women (who are aware of Cameron's movies too) who adored Wonder Woman. In here we have a bunch of guys who don't seem to understand what the impact was like for women to see someone like her on the big screen. That just goes to show that yeah, guys don't get it. Nor do they need to.
When people say that they don't get it its because these kick ass women that everyone seems to claim never existed before hand have always been there. They just weren't paying attention.
Plus considering that you work on a feminist show, and one of your coworkers cried during Ghostbusters because an out of shape women was acting heroic, you might be hanging with a pretty biased crowd.
08-25-17, 12:53 PM
#1686
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Re: Wonder Woman (2017, D: Patty Jenkins) S: Gadot, Pine
Leave it to straight males to continue to define whether or not anyone else's experiences are valid.
08-25-17, 12:57 PM
#1687
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Re: Wonder Woman (2017, D: Patty Jenkins) S: Gadot, Pine
The underlying premise of Aliens is that the instinctual feminine identity, the role to be a mother, is the strongest thing in the universe. Both the villain and hero derive their power from it, and it defies all attempts to be quashed by all the males who are unable to overcome it.
Last edited by Mabuse; 08-25-17 at 02:50 PM.
08-25-17, 01:00 PM
#1688
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Re: Wonder Woman (2017, D: Patty Jenkins) S: Gadot, Pine
I think Cameron should have made the argument more about how he was the one of the first directors to write strong female leads into action/scifi genre movies. The one thing that annoyed me about the 'Girl Power' BS during the Wonder Woman hype last summer was they were essentially saying this was the first, and Cameron has a right to lay that claim.
In saying that, can we get a god damn BluRay of The Abyss!
In saying that, can we get a god damn BluRay of The Abyss!
08-25-17, 01:19 PM
#1690
DVD Talk Hero
Re: Wonder Woman (2017, D: Patty Jenkins) S: Gadot, Pine
The point is that Wonder Woman is ABOUT Wonder Woman and the power of being a woman. T2 and Aliens are not about the power of being a woman.
I know so many women (who are aware of Cameron's movies too) who adored Wonder Woman. In here we have a bunch of guys who don't seem to understand what the impact was like for women to see someone like her on the big screen. That just goes to show that yeah, guys don't get it. Nor do they need to.
I know so many women (who are aware of Cameron's movies too) who adored Wonder Woman. In here we have a bunch of guys who don't seem to understand what the impact was like for women to see someone like her on the big screen. That just goes to show that yeah, guys don't get it. Nor do they need to.
08-25-17, 01:22 PM
#1691
DVD Talk Hero
Re: Wonder Woman (2017, D: Patty Jenkins) S: Gadot, Pine
You missed the point and how vague I was being about BLM, but I'm not surprised. It is you after all.
Thanks for clarifying those other films -- I went further back than those most recent ones you listed.
08-25-17, 01:40 PM
#1693
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Re: Wonder Woman (2017, D: Patty Jenkins) S: Gadot, Pine
Supergirl was about the power of being a woman and she saved the day with no help from her more famous cousin. Catwoman beat the shit out of Batman and saved the day in her own movie. Batgirl saved Robin in Batman and Robin and helped saved the day. Elektra saved the day in her own movie. Angelina Jolie showed the power of women in Tomb Raider.
When people say that they don't get it its because these kick ass women that everyone seems to claim never existed before hand have always been there. They just weren't paying attention.
Plus considering that you work on a feminist show, and one of your coworkers cried during Ghostbusters because an out of shape women was acting heroic, you might be hanging with a pretty biased crowd.
When people say that they don't get it its because these kick ass women that everyone seems to claim never existed before hand have always been there. They just weren't paying attention.
Plus considering that you work on a feminist show, and one of your coworkers cried during Ghostbusters because an out of shape women was acting heroic, you might be hanging with a pretty biased crowd.
08-25-17, 01:47 PM
#1694
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Re: Wonder Woman (2017, D: Patty Jenkins) S: Gadot, Pine
Yes, there have always been kick-ass women in the movies, but a lot of your examples were pretty terrible movies. That means fewer people see them, and some people will wrongly think that women can't carry a movie. Wonder Woman was in a different class from all of those.
08-25-17, 02:35 PM
#1695
DVD Talk Hero
Re: Wonder Woman (2017, D: Patty Jenkins) S: Gadot, Pine
But I'm glad you care so much about my personal life
But yes, my "biased" crowd thinks it's cool that there is finally one successful female-lead superhero movie after dozens of male-lead movies. It's super weird that that upsets you.
08-25-17, 02:38 PM
#1696
DVD Talk Godfather
Re: Wonder Woman (2017, D: Patty Jenkins) S: Gadot, Pine
Supergirl was about the power of being a woman and she saved the day with no help from her more famous cousin. Catwoman beat the shit out of Batman and saved the day in her own movie. Batgirl saved Robin in Batman and Robin and helped saved the day. Elektra saved the day in her own movie. Angelina Jolie showed the power of women in Tomb Raider..
08-25-17, 02:40 PM
#1697
DVD Talk Legend & 2021 TOTY Winner
Re: Wonder Woman (2017, D: Patty Jenkins) S: Gadot, Pine
Yes, there have always been kick-ass women in the movies, but all of your examples were pretty terrible movies. That means fewer people see them, and some people will wrongly think that women can't carry a movie. Wonder Woman was in a different class from all of those.
08-25-17, 02:46 PM
#1699
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Re: Wonder Woman (2017, D: Patty Jenkins) S: Gadot, Pine
That's what Jame Cameron is saying. And he's adding that he thinks Wonder Woman is more of the same.
08-25-17, 02:53 PM
#1700
DVD Talk Hero
Re: Wonder Woman (2017, D: Patty Jenkins) S: Gadot, Pine
It's a shame Cameron didn't get to make his Spider-Man movie. I'm pretty sure it would have been the best Spidey of the movie adaptations.