Brack

You're right, forgot about the added number of nominatons

rocket1312

While I agree with you in theory, this is where I have a problem. I DON'T feel like their relationship is earned. It's been awhile since I have seen the movie, but I never bought the relationship between Belle and the Beast. I understand Belle pitying him to a certain degree, but not loving him. I'm not saying it isn't possible, but nothing we see in the film itself really supports that idea.

Thankfully Disney made The Enchanted Christmas to fill in some of the gaps. They really should release an Extended cut of the original that incorporates that film. Kind of like the Godfather Saga.

bluetoast

Is The Enchanted Castle good? I might have to check that out.

rocket1312

I actually have no idea. I admit, I was trolling a little bit with that comment. I do know that Disney spent some money and brought back all of the original cast, but I always assumed that it was at the same level as all of the other DTV sequels they put out during the Eisner years.

bluetoast

Heh, well I know The Return of Jafar was at least not bad, I hear that a few of those sequels are decent, hopefully this is one of them. They still haven't made Pinocchio 2, so at least that's safe.

Groucho

Not sure if Disney was involved with this or not:

wishbone

"A boy who won't be good might just as well be made of morning wood."

Jay G.

There's a lot in the film itself that supports that idea. First, the Beast rescues her from the wolves, which shows he isn't entirely selfish. Then there's the montage sequence set to the song "Something There," that show Belle and the Beast warming to each other. Then the Beast gives her the library, which not only shows that he's generous, but pays attention to her thoughts and desires (since she likes books). Finally, he allows her to go to her father, giving back her freedom, showing how selfless he has become.

Brack

I thought the montage song "Something There" covered some significant amount of time for the story. When Beast sees that Belle needs to see her father, who looks sick, he knows she must release her. Belle is torn a little because she really is starting to care about him. Plus Belle always felt different, out of place with everyone she knew. Everyone loved Gaston because on the surface he was perfect. Belle saw through that. She also saw through Beast. She's a perceptive character.

I've never seen any of the DTV movies, that's a good idea if the films have the same feel and flow.

EddieMoney

They should've just titled the movie "Disney's Stockholm Syndrome."

Brack

I saw Return of Jafar and King of Thieves a long time ago. They all were pretty decent if memory serves correctly.

resinrats

Robin Williams made King of Thieves unwatchable. They litteraly couldn't go a few seconds without the genie poking his head in and making a comment.

rocket1312

Admittedly it's been a long time since I saw the movie beginning to end, but I guess I've just never been able to get over the fact that the Beast was holding her prisoner against her will. Anything short of letting her go shouldn't earn the beast any points. I know he does eventually let her go, but that should have been the first step in endearing himself to Belle, not the final act that solidifies their love for one another. I'll have to revisit, but it's likely that this story will just never work for me no matter what. I feel the same way about the Cocteau version that most consider an all-time classic.

Groucho

Didn't one of the Aladdin movies have Dan Castellaneta as the Genie?

bluetoast

Yeah that was the first sequel, The Return of Jafar. Nice Pinocchio find, by the way.

Brack

You are right on all accounts. But if Beast just let Belle go from the beginning, there would have been no movie. You have to accept the basic premise or it will never work.

There are a lot of movies that would have ended early if the characters had done the right thing initially. Aren't characters allowed to be wrong or make mistakes?

Jay G.

Yeah, it sounds like your issue is with the source material, in which the imprisonment is a plot point. As Brack points out, it's somewhat necessary, as the story requires that Belle warm to the Beast over time, while he's supposed to be so outwardly frightening and ugly that no woman would willingly stay with him long enough to see the inner beauty.

However, it should be noted that Belle isn't necessarily held prisoner "against her will." The Beast didn't just kidnap her. She voluntarily took the place of her father, who was being held for crimes against the Beast (at least, crimes from the Beast's point of view). The first time she actually asks to leave, to visit/rescue her sick father, the Beast grants her leave.

Supermallet

Alright Brack, I concede that I can understand why B&B gets so much acclaim. However, personally, as someone who has studied film, narrative, and art, I find it underwhelming compared to Little Mermaid, Aladdin, and The Lion King. Especially The Lion King. I rewatched that one last night, and it resonates in a way the others don't. Probably the Shakespearean influences.

Jay G.

Fixed.

Jon2

Just for something to think about...

In the original B&B fairytale, the focus of the story is on Belle, more than the Beast. The moral of the story centers on her. In the original fairy tale, the Beast dies... leaving Beauty to regret her choices and actions that led to his death. Jean Cocteau's La Belle et la Bete (one of my top 10 films) really epitomizes this... that the story is essentially Bele's story, although

Disney's B&B reverses the major story point a significant degree, shifting the moral (don't judge things based on their appearance) off of Bele and onto the Beast.

And, yes, those 12 questions are all essentially nit-picking.

Goat3001

Ralph Macchio fucking cheated. We all know it, Barney was just the first to say it.

bluetoast

I wouldn't consider the fact that he was 11 at the time of the curse to be nitpicking. That was something we thought of when watching it a few years, back, like...damn that's a dick move to turn him into a Beast just for that.

Brack

With that "illegal" crane kick.

Jay G.

It may depend on which version of the "original" you've read, but Wikipedia states that in the earliest written version, the Beast does die, but it revived by Beauty's tears and transformed into a prince:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Beauty_and_the_beast

I don't think this is true. The moral of "don't judge based on appearances" is still on Belle, but the Beast does learn a lesson in the Disney version as well, one of being a better person on the inside. In the original fairy tale, the Beast is simply a victim.

Brack

Which one, Hamlet? Other than that it's a coming of age story.

My only gripe with The Lion King is the Circle of Life song. Really hokey stuff. At least there's Can You Feel the Love Tonight and Hakuna Matata. The lack of Howard Ashman was clearly evident. Tim Rice just didn't cut it. It was the start of there being less songs in Disney films (just 5 of them in LK), or plain forgettable ones.