Shannon Nutt

The alien was originally SUPPOSED to be Satan, but Paramount made Shatner nix that idea.

BTW, I've always believed Shatner "stole" (consciously or subconsciously) the idea for Star Trek V from a 1976 episode of TOMORROW, where Tom Snyder asks DeForest Kelley what he thinks the plot for the new Star Trek movie (which would become Star Trek: The Motion Picture) should be:

Kelley: "I think it should have the crew encounter God, and then we find out that God is actually the Devil."

Snyder: "I don't think we're ready for that one yet, DeForest."

moviefan2k4

Political correctness run amok...why am I not surprised?

It was a good idea, aside from the pantheistic ending.

Supermallet

Both movies were ambitious, it's just that TMP had the budget (and the director) to try and achieve those ambitions. TMP's mistake was trying to be a successor to 2001: A Space Odyssey in the years following Star Wars. It's a better film than it gets credit for, although it's not one I rewatch too often.

Final Frontier was an interesting idea that failed due to a combination of budget restraints (the film looks so, so cheap) and Shatner's poor direction. He doesn't do a bad job with the characters (although, let's face it, the main cast could play those parts in their sleep by that point), but basics of composition and staging seemed lost on Bill. The one exception to this is the scene where Spock and McCoy face their pain. That is a sequence so good that it feels like a different movie entirely. The God stuff at the end was an interesting idea, but so poorly executed.

Supermallet

What, you would rather Kirk had turned to Spock and McCoy and said, "See boys, this is why you should stick to believing in good ol' Jesus Christ! He'll never steer you wrong!"?

stvn1974

I enjoy them both.

atlantamoi

I haven't bought that box set yet because I remember how disappointed I was seeing TMP in the theater when it came out (I was 14 or 15). The pace was awful. All I remember is that ship floating in space forever on it's way to wherever it was going. I didn't care for Blade Runner a couple of years later either. I think, as a kid, I was comparing everything to Star Wars. I did recently watch Blade Runner and thought it was amazing. Maybe I need to check out TMP again for the first time in 30+ years.

Lt Ripley

moviefan2k4

Of course not, but a better response would've been, "I think He is." We're not divine, and that's been evidenced by history many times over.

moviefan2k4

Well, I got my copy at Best Buy for $40, which is pretty good for 6 films.

Lt Ripley

Reading all the "painfully slow" comments and I find it weird that as time goes by, I find almost all of the summer blockbuster movies to be boring and dull. I am turning into an old fart, although i have always liked TMP more than the piece of shit V.

Shannon Nutt

I didn't think it was a pantheistic ending, I thought it was a humanist ending (although, granted, there may not be much difference between the two concepts). God's not out there, but the qualities we atribute to Him are inside us...again, good idea poorly executed.

Anyway, I look forward to seeing the reaction to INTO DARKNESS here in a few weeks, as, from what I've heard, that movie has some even sillier concepts than TREK V, but it has whiz-bang, state of the art effects...will the majority be distracted enough by them to think it's a "Great" film? We'll see.

Shannon Nutt

See my comment above...the plotting/characterzation is often worse/just as bad, but audiences get distracted by F/X and pacing.

moviefan2k4

I also noticed a drastic change in Kirk's attitude toward Klingons between "Final Frontier" and "Undiscovered Country". After all, he killed Kruge to avenge David's murder, so why hold the entire race accountable?

Supermallet

Maybe V takes place after VI?

The real answer is that VI is made a better movie by giving Kirk an arc. In V, the Klingon element is just window dressing. In VI, Kirk's relationship to Klingons is central to the theme of the film.

And as for the ending of V, to specifically name check and possibly endorse one religion would go against part of what Star Trek is about, which is inclusiveness.

moviefan2k4

That's why I would've preferred an ambiguous remark from Kirk, instead of an egotistical one.

Mike86

Nemesis is underrated actually if you ask me. The biggest problems it has if you ask me was it tried taking a page from Wrath of Khan but it didn't really work out and also the fact that it was a weak entry for the TNG crew to go out on. Overall it has it's moments though.

As for the poll I'd say The Final Frontier is pretty much crap all around. The Motion Picture is slow in spots and I can see why some people dislike it but I think it's enjoyable.

Shannon Nutt

You are going to LOVE the new film, then.

arminius

I remember the anticipation when TMP came out. It didn't live up to the hype, but overall it was a good SF movie and a good ST movie. Alot of that slow pace was the reintroduction of the crew and even more so of the ship after all those years since the show ended. Nothing like that had ever happened before.

Mike86

I don't love Nemesis but I think it's a pretty big exaggeration for it to be called the worst Star Trek film to be honest. The Final Frontier and Insurrection are both worse if you ask me. The Final Frontier just for not being very well made and having a poorly executed story, and Insurrection for feeling more like a two part episode of TNG rather than a film.

I actually just watched Nemesis a couple weeks back. I don't think it's by any means perfect but while I was watching it I could help but wonder why it gets shit on so much. Shinzon was a decent villain but I think the character would have been more effective if he had been introduced in TNG or something or at least alluded to. The battle at the end between the Enterprise E and the Romulan ship is also pretty cool if you ask me.

I also liked

What killed the film is the fact that it seemed lacking in some character moments. I think a big problem with a lot of the TNG films is they basically became all about Data or Picard. I love the characters but the rest of the crew kind of took a back seat. Also there really should have been a follow up to this movie if you ask me. As it is it's not the strongest note for the crew to have gone out on. Also like I said earlier it seemed like the creators of this film were trying to re-create The Wrath of Khan but it just didn't work out as well as it should have.

dom56

V was pretty bad because of that stupid "Row,row,row your boat." song. Couldn't they sing any better campfire song than that crap.

Ky-Fi

I think with TMP they went a bit overboard with the approach of "this is not the old tv show, this is a BIG CINEMATIC, WIDESCREEN, EXPENSIVE MOTION PICTURE". However, I love that vibe, so the fact that it's a bit slow and ponderous doesn't bother me. It DOES feel cinematic, and it's the combined fun of having the characters reunited with each other and the Enterprise, and all that slow, big grandeur, with the great score and effects....I can see why many would find it boring, and I"m not arguing it's a perfect movie, but its excesses were in the service of a vibe I really like, so it works for me.

Shannon Nutt

Not without Paramount forking over a bunch of $$$ for song rights.

Supermallet

Generations is far and away the worst ST film.

Mike86

I've always had a soft spot for it. Maybe because it's the first Trek film I saw in theaters to my recollection but I've always kind of enjoyed it. I thought Soran was an okay villain and the nexus stuff was kind of interesting. I think the concept could have been explored a bit more though. I also thought it was pretty cool seeing Kirk and Picard interact. Data having the emotion chip installed also provided for some fun moments. I think the film gets a lot of shit for the fact that they I wasn't a big fan of how the film felt the need to destroy the Enterprise D as it was my favorite Enterprise. The saucer crash was pretty cool though I'll give the film that much at least.

stvn1974

JJ Abrams Star Trek: 90210 is still the worst Star Trek. At least until I see this new travesty.