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Soderbergh on "What's Killing Cinema?"

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Soderbergh on "What's Killing Cinema?"

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Old 05-01-13 | 01:46 PM
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Re: Soderbergh on "What's Killing Cinema?"

Originally Posted by Jaymole
The difference being the target audience. There is a big difference between who the studios market to today than who they did 40 or 50 years ago. There is simply a dearth of Hollywood films aimed at adults in the movie theaters...which is understandable as the main movie going audience today are teenagers and young adults.

Take a look at the top 10 films at the box office 40 years ago, then compare it to the last few years...the difference is quite telling:


The Exorcist
The Sting
American Graffiti
Papillon
The Way We Were
Magnum Force
Last Tango in Paris
Live and Let Die
Robin Hood

Paper Moon
The titles in bold above were films that very much were targeted to the youth demographic (horror, teen dramedy, action/adventures).

And while I know I am about to sound ancient (I'm a geriatric 27), there is a big difference in either the intelligence of the youth today or at the least, the perception of intelligence of the youth today based on the media that is being made for those demographics. From saturday morning cartoons to the differences between TGIF shows and Wizards of Waverly Place, stuff just seems pretty dumbed down (I've rewatched stuff from my youth, so this is not just nostalgia talking).

I think when Hollywood used to want to "market to the kids" we'd wind up with something like Jaws or Easy Rider (and the ton of easy rider knock-offs that followed). But, the culture changed. Suddenly, those youth films were "too mature" or "too graphic."

The studios also have managed to seize on a bigger market in being able to bridge the gap between kids and adults with these comic book films. Kids like comic books and there is a huge segment of adults that either still read comic books or for whom comics played a huge part of their childhood and they are happy to indulge their nostalgia (I'm the latter. I'll be seeing Iron Man 3 sometime this month just like a hell of a lot of other people will).

So, I think what is "killing" cinema is less Hollywood and more the overall culture. As so many people have said in here, Hollywood changes with the money. If people stopped paying for crap, they'd make different stuff, some of it crap as well, but their model would shift as it has continually done throughout their history.

Hollywood reacts to consumer trends, it doesn't create them.
Old 05-01-13 | 01:51 PM
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Re: Soderbergh on "What's Killing Cinema?"

The point about the short theatrical release windows is a very good one. Only the biggest brands on film will make box office money in a month or two. Unknown concepts or properties don't have the built-in audience necessary for a large box office take. Good movies often take time to build an audience, as word-of-mouth can still take months to filter out through the general population.
Old 05-01-13 | 02:25 PM
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Re: Soderbergh on "What's Killing Cinema?"

Originally Posted by BambooLounge
The titles in bold above were films that very much were targeted to the youth demographic (horror, teen dramedy, action/adventures).
The Exorcist, Magnum Force, American Graffiti and Live and Let Die were not targeted to teenagers. But go on thinking that the same demographic groups that were targeted then is the same as today...sheesh.
Old 05-01-13 | 02:39 PM
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Re: Soderbergh on "What's Killing Cinema?"

Originally Posted by Supermallet
What's killing cinema are audiences who will go to see any bullshit as long as it's big and flashy and heavily marketed, even if they know its going to suck.
THANK YOU. I was just going to post something similar. This is where the real problem is, and I'm not sure it can be fixed.
Old 05-01-13 | 02:40 PM
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Re: Soderbergh on "What's Killing Cinema?"

Originally Posted by Jaymole
The Exorcist
The Sting
American Graffiti
Papillon
The Way We Were
Magnum Force
Last Tango in Paris
Live and Let Die
Robin Hood
Paper Moon
And then Jaws came out, made real money and studios turned their attentions to profit over quality. (Not realizing that Jaws being a quality film is why it made money, but it also had appeal)

The good movies still exist, they just don't top the charts. Back in 1973 there were what, 30 movies released in the US theatrically? Last year saw at least 659.
Old 05-01-13 | 02:54 PM
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Re: Soderbergh on "What's Killing Cinema?"

Originally Posted by Jaymole
The Exorcist, Magnum Force, American Graffiti and Live and Let Die were not targeted to teenagers. But go on thinking that the same demographic groups that were targeted then is the same as today...sheesh.
Never said they targeted the same demographics. Demographic studies have gotten far more advanced and thinks have been framed more narrowly.

But, action and horror films are generally seen by young people. Really? Teens turned away from Bond?

Those are all very good films, but I think the reason is not that they were marketed to an older generation, but because audiences in teen demographics and older demos wanted to see them and paid to see them.

Also, some of those films became archetypes. The Exorcist resulted in a bunch of copy cat films. American Graffiti...can basically draw a straight line from it to Dazed and Confused (great).

I think, that the quality of films were better in part because 1) they were novel for the time and 2) the audiences and the larger culture was willing to accept newer films.
Old 05-01-13 | 03:20 PM
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Re: Soderbergh on "What's Killing Cinema?"

Originally Posted by RichC2
The good movies still exist, they just don't top the charts. Back in 1973 there were what, 30 movies released in the US theatrically? Last year saw at least 659.
Probably closer to 30 a week being released in 1973.
Old 05-01-13 | 03:55 PM
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Re: Soderbergh on "What's Killing Cinema?"

Funny seeing this forum complain about modern cinema. Take a look at the most active threads here: Superhero movies and sequels. Hell, the new Superman movie hasn't even come out, and it has over 4,000 posts!
Old 05-01-13 | 04:08 PM
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Re: Soderbergh on "What's Killing Cinema?"

Yeah, but 2,000 of those posts are complaints about color grading, and the other 1,999 are complaints about costuming.
Old 05-01-13 | 04:23 PM
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Re: Soderbergh on "What's Killing Cinema?"

One of the most hypocritical things about the industry: Those commercials where they show a loud scene, and then zoom out and show it on a computer. "Go big or go home."

Really motherfuckers? You're going to tout the theatrical experience, and then turn around and sell the movie on iTunes, and promote the shit out of Ultraviolet where people can watch it on an even smaller screen? Fuck that shit.

I realize it's from the standpoint of anti-piracy, but it's laughable that that's how they're trying to combat it.
Old 05-01-13 | 04:24 PM
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Re: Soderbergh on "What's Killing Cinema?"

Originally Posted by Ash Ketchum
When I was ten years old I walked to and from the theater--in the snow!--to see EL CID--by myself. That same season I'd already seen MUTINY ON THE BOUNTY, THE LONGEST DAY, THE GREAT ESCAPE, LAWRENCE OF ARABIA and WEST SIDE STORY--not to mention BEACH PARTY and X-THE MAN WITH THE X-RAY EYES. So yeah, movies were better.
Do you still have no friends?
Old 05-01-13 | 04:39 PM
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Re: Soderbergh on "What's Killing Cinema?"

Originally Posted by Jaymole
The Exorcist, Magnum Force, American Graffiti and Live and Let Die were not targeted to teenagers. But go on thinking that the same demographic groups that were targeted then is the same as today...sheesh.
Young people went to these films, but they weren't specifically targeted to teens. Certainly not in the case of THE EXORCIST, which was considered too provocative for young people--so of course they all wanted to go see it. There was a general audience of adults and young adults that was generally the target audience for films like these. I was in college when these films came out (the year I turned 20) and we all went to see them. AMERICAN GRAFFITI was slanted to an older demographic's nostalgia for the early '60s, but it cut across audience lines.

Films specifically targeted to the "youth" demographic tended to be exploitation films from studios like AIP, New World and Crown (blaxploitation, kung fu, Italian westerns, cheerleaders movies, cheap horror from Hammer, etc.). Think SCREAM, BLACULA, SCREAM and stuff like FROGS and TWINS OF EVIL, to name a few I recall from grindhouse double bills.

Last edited by Ash Ketchum; 05-01-13 at 04:49 PM.
Old 05-01-13 | 05:25 PM
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Re: Soderbergh on "What's Killing Cinema?"

Originally Posted by Rockmjd23
So did big movies really run for a year back in those days?
Yep... To the point that Lucasfilm issued an Anniversary Poster to the theaters that played it for a full year. It included the action figure surrounding a cake.

fitprod

Last edited by fitprod; 05-01-13 at 05:33 PM.
Old 05-01-13 | 05:34 PM
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Re: Soderbergh on "What's Killing Cinema?"

I remember the big summer movies actually staying in theaters the whole summer (June to September).
Old 05-01-13 | 07:58 PM
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Re: Soderbergh on "What's Killing Cinema?"

Originally Posted by Rockmjd23
I remember the big summer movies actually staying in theaters the whole summer (June to September).
Haha...on that note, the price dropped today or yesterday on Amazon for the Iron Man 3 Blu-ray pre-order.
Old 05-01-13 | 08:44 PM
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Re: Soderbergh on "What's Killing Cinema?"

Don't believe the hype about these mega-promotional budgets. Most of it is all smoke and mirrors.
Old 05-02-13 | 08:24 AM
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Re: Soderbergh on "What's Killing Cinema?"

Originally Posted by BambooLounge
Haha...on that note, the price dropped today or yesterday on Amazon for the Iron Man 3 Blu-ray pre-order.
Is it still the 2D pre-order only?
Old 05-02-13 | 09:24 AM
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Re: Soderbergh on "What's Killing Cinema?"

Originally Posted by Rockmjd23
That's a good point about release windows. So did big movies really run for a year back in those days? I suppose it made sense since there was no home video option.
I remember when FUNNY GIRL reached its one-year anniversary at the Criterion Theater on Broadway, they did a whole celebration and Barbra Streisand came to the theater for it. I was there and saw her. They gave out stills to the assembled crowd.
Old 05-02-13 | 09:14 PM
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Re: Soderbergh on "What's Killing Cinema?"

Bet most of the last round of people who ran films at theaters (before being replaced by digital) wouldn't have been able to let a film print stay at a theater for a year without getting scratched!

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