DynamicKnight

As a admitted Trekkie, I think the reason why people are anticipating VII so much is the removal of Lucas. It's pretty much the same that happened with Star Trek. The execs realized that Roddenberry's idea of Trek was getting outdated after The Motion Picture so he was made a "consultant", and they made Wrath Of Khan which he reportedly hated, but to this day it is considered one of, if not the best, of the movies.

Sometimes it is better to divorce a creator from the creation in order for it to live on (also Majel Barrett-Roddenberry said that Gene would have hated DS9 if he saw what it's become, and it's my favorite series).

Paul_SD

I understand what you are saying and I agree completely. That is why most of the fans are excited.

But most of these same fans have been unable to make any distinction between quality (SW & ESB) and utter crap (ROTJ) in the last 30 years. The closest they get is saying "well, yeah, it's not as good as the first two...but there is still some great, emotional stuff in it" and then they'll toss out ewoks as a prime example of what is lacking. Ewoks are so far down the list of what makes the film a bullshit parade it's absurd.

Can you make a good movie out of where Jedi leaves the characters?
Probably- but I doubt it is the movie people are wanting to see or expecting.

DynamicKnight

I do admit I have a soft spot for ROTJ, but I don't think it's utter crap and certainly better than all of the prequels.

Artman

But it really won't have any connection to Jedi as it'll likely be set decades later. The small roles/cameos of certain OT characters SHOULD be the only reference we get to it. But, if we're simply following everyone's kids and there's a new death star, new empire, etc... than yeah, we can rip it for a lack of creativity...though I'm still expecting a fun movie.

PatD

One could also make the argument that the whole Vader being Luke's father was pulled out of their ass in TESB because there was absolutely no foreshadowing in ANH (in fact, Obi Wan said he betrayed and murdered his father--which would have meant that he was either lying or speaking metaphorically if TESB is to be truly believed). And there was no indicator of Han and Leia having a romantic spark in ANH. Once again, TESB pulls that out of its backside.

So I guess, Empire is truly dung, if you think about it. Fuck you, Lawrence Kasdan and Leigh Brackett, you fucking hacks. Star Wars must be PURE! No twists or wrinkles without prior foreshadowing!

Paul_SD

I'd say it's less about having to foreshadow a twist, or complication, and more about how the material rolls with the twist.
It's artistically unforgivable the way Jedi rolls over the thoughtfully established and embellished character relationships to get to its moronically simple-minded happy ending.

Take the Vader revelation in ESB. Look at where this leaves Luke going into the events of Jedi.
He's got two options- Either Vader has lied to him-in which case he now knows he can't trust his own feelings, or he knows he is not strong enough to overcome this adversary playing with them in battle
-or-
he has to accept the fact that both his mentors ( Yoda and Ben) have lied to and manipulated him- and if that is the case, why on earth wouldn't he begin to question following in their footsteps. Is being a Jedi, is really a virtuous goal after all?
He's had his ass handed to him, he's lost his hand, and he sees the woman he is in love with mooning over a rival. Luke is not in a great place. He is ripe for further manipulation.
When he goes to rescue Han- Do we ever see him enter into dark thoughts that tell him maybe this would actually be the perfect place to do away with his rival once and for all? You don't need to dwell on it, but a passing aside where you see him hesitate in saving him from some threat is enough to raise the stakes later in the film.
We get nothing like that though, because the thematic convictions of the film are all superficial surface level. They don't exist any deeper than the dialogue.

That's just one brief example of the thought that could have been put into the film but wasn't- because Jedi really isn't about the characters. It's about the character being moved around like empty action figures to service a happy go lucky, ultimately feel good plot. A viewer has to approach the material with the sophistication of an eight year old, helped no doubt by some gauzy nostalgia, to be able to avoid how grossly insulting the material is to your intelligence.

HopToIt

This newly manufactured May 4th Star Wars holiday indicated that a substantial number of fans are genuinely excited for Ep. VII and beyond...
And no matter the sage wisdom to be found in our very own galaxy:
...we shall not deviate from this unalterable course into mediocrity:

Boba Fett

No, that's an A-Wing

moviefan2k4

Well, you don't see it anywhere else in the OT, so I thought it was an addition from the PT.

Matt

Boba Fett

Nope, you certainly don't.

moviefan2k4

I meant outside of Episode VI.

Lt Ripley

Marbles.

Guru Askew

I think we can all agree that you don't see the A-Wing anywhere else in the OT except for in other scenes in the OT.

dex14

Simon Pegg quote:

http://www.totalfilm.com/news/simon-...rate-star-wars

Paul_SD

everything except the thrill of discovery.

Kinda getting a Singer/Donner vibe here

RichC2

If it has a good screenplay, Abrams will do fine with it.

anomynous

Just announce Simon Pegg's in the movie already

moviefan2k4

I have seen all six films numerous times, and I don't recall that ship being shown anywhere else outside of "Jedi".

windom

Watching that clip, it's clear to me that there is no way an A-wing crashing into the bridge of that Star Destroyer could bring it down. It just couldn't bring it down like that. Star Destroyers are built to withstand collisions with much bigger ships with or without shields up. And what caused it to suddenly plunge into the Death Star like that? The Death Star wouldn't have that much of a gravitational pull on the Star Destroyer. It should have just hung there in space. I think maybe there were tractor beams originating on the Death Star that pulled the Destroyer towards it timed to occur at the same moment the A-wing "crashed" into the bridge. I wouldn't doubt it if the Empire had rigged the Star Destroyer full of explosives itself in an excuse to make it look like the rebels had taken out their ship with a suicide bomber.

moviefan2k4

...or it was done for dramatic purposes.

bluetoast

Mark Hamill talks about the discussion with Lucas, as well as his initial thoughts about RotJ:

http://www.aintitcool.com/node/62268

Jay G.

I thought the idea was that since it took out the bridge, the Star Destroyer was out of control and veered into the Death Star. It's the same principle behind shooting the driver of a car, and it veers off the road.

As for the A-wings, they most likely were created for Jedi in order to sell more toys.

Josh-da-man

The A-Wing and B-Wing fighters only appeared, on-screen at least, in ROTJ. They were new fighters that were introduced for that movie.

I put together model kits of both when I was a kid.

DaveyJoe

Wow, you guys are such nerds.

(Returns to the Game of Thrones forum)