Why So Blu?

Considering a NUCLEAR BOMB was just detonated 6 miles off of Gotham coast, yes, I think people will come together to fix the city. They were seconds away from being vaporized.

Then again, I have faith in humanity.

Supermallet

And I don't expect anyone here to follow AV Rev. I was simply pointing out that I did like the movie, and even wrote a review to that extent. But that won't stop me from pointing out its flaws.

P.S. I also think the boat sequence in TDK doesn't work but it's strange to single that out and then praise TDKR, which has even bigger problems.

Why So Blu?

[QUOTE=DaveyJoe;11322802]Far superior is subjective. This is from one of my posts earlier in the thread:



All I'm saying is that none of the films in the trilogy are perfect, but it seems like TDKR is being held to a much higher standard than TDK was. TDK is a flawed film, but people seem much more willing to overlook those flaws than they are in this instance.[/QUOTE]


The Joker fanboys.

DaveyJoe

I praise both films, I think they're on par with each other. In my original review I cited several problems I had with the film, the biggest being the editing. It's so obvious that a lot was cut out from this movie, and I think it would really benefit from a director's cut. I feel like Nolan was going for a classic David Lean type of epic, but whittled the screen time down far too much. A lot of the supporting characters and sub plots really suffer from this. Juno Temple was so pointless she might as well have been cut all together.

Like I said, I wasn't singling you out, because I actually remembered your positive review. It's just surprising to see such a negative tone here, when TDK was lavished with near unanimous praise upon it's release. Personally I think the films are very close in terms of quality. But I don't understand your rolling smiley face comment when I think you and I are on the same wavelength, we acknowledge flaws in both films, but ultimately really enjoyed them.

B5Erik

I liked TDK, but I didn't love it. It has too many holes and too many lapses in logic for a movie that was supposedly the Heat of superhero movies.

I won't be able to see TDKR until NEXT Wednesday, so I won't be able to comment until then, but that should be interesting. Reactions to TDKR are all over the place...

Ranger

Come on, what was wrong with that scene? You'd have preferred either boat blow up the other or the Joker blowing both up?

Draven

Not really. Zeus dropping the detonator out the window was a little cheesy. But it pales in comparison to the eye rolling I endured during most of the last chunk of TDKR.

It's mostly the fact that that particular moment is so close to the end of the movie. I had problems with TDKR from the opening scene.

Supermallet

I wasn't making comments about you. I was making comments about one or two other posters who have been very zealous in their defense of this film. Sorry if there was any confusion about that.

And, as I mentioned before, I'd place this one third in terms of quality (TDK first, then BB, then TDKR), so while I wouldn't say we're on the exact same wavelength, we at least know where each one is coming from.

DaveyJoe

I'm fine with the outcome, my issue with the 3rd act of The Dark Knight is that it's so incredibly underwhelming compared to what came before it. The movie peaked with the car chase and interrogation scenes, then just kind sputtered on for another 45 minutes. The stuff with Dent at the end was great, but I didn't care for the execution of the sky scraper sequence. The sonar stuff gives me a headache and the fight scenes are pretty weak. I appreciated that TDKR constantly built up towards the final fight between Bane and Batman and the payoff was really something. I suppose I should provide my disclaimer that I love TDK and I think it's up there with BB and TDKR as the best comic book movies I've ever seen.



Fair enough, the posts were coming in pretty rapidly for the past page and a half, so I apologize for any confusion.

Save Ferris

Selena Kyle was the female reporter who shot Joe Chill and took the pearls off him.

Dragon Tattoo

Well, Heat has at least 100 documented plotholes and lapses in logic, so it would seem that TDK is in good company.

DaveyJoe

Plot holes-schmot holes. Mise-en-scene is what's most important!


(Heat is my favorite movie)

Ranger

One problem I did have with the boat scene: I think throwing the detonator would have been set off with the impact on the water surface.

I guess it'd have been less dramatic if the dude had taken out the batteries first before throwing the detonator.

Nick Martin

Between this thread and the TDKR / Avengers poll thread, I'd make the same assumption about you in being very zealous in your criticism, along with several others here.

Perhaps that's why that defense comes off as so strong, because they're trying to respond in kind.

I've got nothing left to say in this thread because it's about a 90% bitchfest / nitpick that's gone on for 40 pages.

No one has anything of significance to say about this film they enjoy or found interesting but can go paragraph after paragraph on the smallest thing they don't like.

I took issue with that earlier and was accused (as usual) of wanting only good things which wasn't what I was saying at all, I was saying where's the balance?

But whatever.

If I want negativity with no balance of positivity, I've got life offline.

Save Ferris

My expectations for TDKR was much higher than any of the other Batman movies. It amplified the let down feeling. Maybe more viewings and the BD release will soften my opinion of it. For now it's my least favorite in the series.

bootsy

Based off of what? Because Heath Ledger's Joker. I loved TDK but there is nothing far superior about TDK over TDKR and Begins. Begins is my favorite of the three but people and their uber love for TDK is unbelievable. No wonder people have problems with TDKR when you give so much love to TDK how can anything else stand a chance. My opinions on the trilogy is that they are interchangeable and each can be considered the best of the three but none are far superior over the others.

Supermallet

I would say that I'm responding in kind to the people who are defending this at all costs, even to the point of brushing off valid criticisms.

This isn't like the Prometheus thread. I genuinely hated that stupid film. I really like TDKR, but also feel it deserves some amount of criticism.

Then again, I know a lot of people here have the impression that I hate every movie, so maybe I've got that going against me.

Supermallet

The Joker is an exceptional villain, and Heath Ledger's performance really is mesmerizing. But beyond that, the performances by Eckhart and especially Oldman are top notch (one of my all time favorite Oldman performances, actually), and the ideological conflict between Batman and the Joker stands out to me as being more important than the physical well being of Gotham, which is what Ra's and Bane are trying to destroy. I discussed this earlier when comparing The Joker to Bane as well.

The film does feel like Heat, and it's a very positive comparison. TDKR is messier, more bloated, and with more flaws. So no, it's not just about The Joker for me.

Abob Teff

You have more faith than me ... I don't see anybody giving up what they had recently come across. "Oh look, a mushroom cloud. Sorry Mr. Moneybucks, here is your shit back. No harm, no foul, right?"

However your point made me think a little deeper about one of the fundamental problems with TDKR ...

While many of you criticize the boat scene in TDK, it showed the citizens of Gotham struggling with a moral decision and earning redemption. One of the recurring themes in the series is redemption. In TDKR there was no earned redemption (maybe Selina Kyle, but even that plotline was not fleshed out as well as it should have been). The citizens of Gotham certainly did not earn any redemption ... they cowered in their homes, bought into Bane's plot, looted and pillaged, and did nothing of impact within the confines of our knowledge of the story.

DaveyJoe

I agree with your post. This is a film that should have people grinning from the entertainment within. It's a shame to see all of the negativity and nitpicking in this thread when the movie is on par with the rest of the franchise. Expectations were a big part of that, I knew TDKR could never live up to the hype that had been building ever since advance reviews of TDK started pouring in. Ledger's performance really elevated that film to cult status and made it untouchable.

Ledger was amazing, that goes without saying but I was always disappointed that he overshadowed everything else about that film. Like I mentioned earlier, one of my favorite scenes was the final scene with Harvey and Gordon's family. That was one of the most intense things I've ever seen in a PG-13 film and I couldn't believe it got by the censors, you don't often see a man threaten a child with a gun in these types of films. The performances by Eckhart and Oldman, and Zimmer's score(Watch the World Burn) are all excellent. Nobody ever talks about scenes like this because they don't feature The Joker.

Some things I loved about TDKR. The comic relief was great. Much better than the previous films. One of my biggest grievances with the previous films were lines like "Nice coat" and "Okay that's not good!" Nothing in TDKR came that close to pulling me out of the film.

The pacing, I've said it before, but for a 2 hour and 45 minute movie this film really breezes along. I saw the movie twice in IMAX in one day(in really uncomfortable chairs) but never felt like the movie started to drag. I really would like to see an extended cut of this film to flesh out certain things that were given the short-shrift in the theatrical cut. Knowing Nolan, this will probably never happen, but it really could make the film better.

TDKR has the best fight scenes of the trilogy. Many would agree that the hand-to-hand fight scenes of the previous films were the weakest part. They finally got them right here. They are coherent and fluid, they don't seem as choreographed as they did in the other movies. Each fight with Batman and Bane is really well done, I love the lack of music in the sewer fight, and the brutality of Bane smashing Batman's face.

This is the most emotional of the trilogy. I was teary-eyed when Alfred left and during the climax of the film, from the moment when Batman kissed Selina to the end credits. Despite the bleak nature of these films, this movie seemed to silence the inner cynic in me and made me feel like a kid again, rooting for Batman and praying that he made it out okay. The final reveal of him in Florence was an incredibly triumphant moment for me.

Nolan actually made me give a shit about one of his love interests. Catwoman and Batman had great chemistry(not all of it loving). From the very first moment they meet, to the final kiss. Nolan has come a long way from that awkward, emotion-less kiss between Bale and Holmes in Batman Begins. I loved the scene where Batman gives her the batpod and she says "You shouldn't have."

The ending. Nolan actually ended a Batman franchise. This trilogy has come so far from the travesty that the Batman movies of the 90s grew to become. Whereas those films existed to sell toys, Nolan wanted to tell a story. For how dark and cynical the films could be at times, he gave us a happy ending that ended on a note of hope. As a foreign film enthusiast, this is one of the few times I'm praising an American film for having a happy ending, but it worked, and was completely in line with the themes of the trilogy.

Nick Martin

^^Thank you.

Balance is a good thing!

Seems no one wants to talk about all of the thematic, literal and emotional ties to Batman Begins that made it a full-circle story, the hints and callbacks.

Instead it's what, six pages of why they don't like The Bat?

EVERY movie has flaws, but whenever I see "I like that film but it's flawed", well what film doesn't have flaws?

It's more "I like that film but talking up its flaws is fun. Merits are boring"

Supermallet

Stuff I liked:

Hardy as Bane. Often I forgot it was Hardy under the mask. I do wish they fleshed him out a bit more (and not just with a narration by Talia in the last 15 minutes), but the actual performance was excellent.

The big action set pieces were quite impressive. I did like the Bat, unlike some who found it stretched the bounds of reality too much.

Bale as Wayne. He gave his most emotional performance of all three films and it shows.

Hathaway as Selina Kyle. I liked her character motivation and the way she played it. Plus she looked good in a skintight suit.

The IMAX footage looked so, so good. Wally Pfister should get an academy award for cinematography. The IMAX stuff is immaculate.

The first fight with Bane was really tense.

bootsy

I can understand. I loved the same things in TDK but I just can't go as far as saying it's far superior.

DaveyJoe

Me and my friend got a kick out of the IMAX shots of her ass on the batpod. I heard an audible reaction from him in each of our viewings. We saw the film on an IMAX dome so the slight distortion made her backside look extra bulbous.

Nick Martin

Compare this to the (quite literally) pages and pages of nitpicking in this thread, endless paragraphs about Wayne returning to Gotham, how does Blake know Batman, and so on.

It's like "the first fight with Bane was really tense"

but...

"the second fight with Bane was a mess and here are 15 paragraphs why, detailing each and every flaw and nitpick I have an issue with and will run into the ground (padded out to 15 actual paragraphs)" and that's what this thread is. That's not asking for praise and only praise, and it's not being an over-the-top defender either.

It's not specific to you, it's just the overall nature of this thread and it seems, most threads about movies. People just have far less to say unless it's a discussion of a film's supposed problems. That's just unfortunate, to me anyway.