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What's the deal with 'The Nightmare Before Christmas?'

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What's the deal with 'The Nightmare Before Christmas?'

Old 12-08-09, 01:54 AM
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Re: What's the deal with 'The Nightmare Before Christmas?'

Originally Posted by Drop View Post
Could you be more specific about your criticisms, maybe we can have a good discussion about it's merits or lack of.
I guess I don't like the visual style, but it's been so long that I can't really remember a specific reason for being underwhelmed with the movie.

The visual style, the plot, the songs, none of it appealed to me.
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Old 12-08-09, 09:52 AM
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Re: What's the deal with 'The Nightmare Before Christmas?'

Originally Posted by caligulathegod View Post
While Henry Selick was the animation talent behind the film, he's never been able to replicate the entertainment value of TBTNBC. Tim Burton provided the soul that has been severely lacking in Selick's subsequent films.
Coraline was just as good as Nightmare. And I also thought Corpse Bride was just as good as both of them. So to me it seemed like Burton and Selick still had the soul. But I still feel Nightmare is fairly clear collaboration and reflection of both of them.

UAIOE maybe you should see it again, you might like it atleast like it a little more. Or not, but that's fine. I think the film appeals to specific tastes and yours may not be one of them.
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Old 12-08-09, 10:35 AM
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Re: What's the deal with 'The Nightmare Before Christmas?'

I gotta agree. Goth kids took this and made it their own thing, which ruined its original appeal, IMO. I'm a huge Disney buff, and it bothers me to no end that they re-do the Haunted Mansion every year to be Nightmare-themed. The endless merchandise doesn't help either. Honestly, the film seems to annoy me more than anything. When a film or TV show gets too saturated, I step back for a while, wait for it to dissipate and then I can enjoy it again. But this thing never goes away, so I still can't bring myself to watch it again.
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Old 12-08-09, 12:06 PM
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Re: What's the deal with 'The Nightmare Before Christmas?'

Why is it so hard for some of you to separate the film from it's fans or the culture around it? It seems in every case really easy to avoid. At most in the real world, you'll see people wearing a hoodie or shirt, but that's it. People aren't going out of their way to sing the songs anywhere in public and get in other's people way. And internet sites are even easier to ignore. And still none of this stuff is in the actual film, or has any bearing on what Selick or Burton made.

I just never got this idea that fandom or awful sequels effect how one views a film. The brilliance is still there and nothing should change that. When I watch I a great film I forget all about anything that it's spawned and just enjoy what I'm watching. If it's that good of film that is what it should do.
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Old 12-08-09, 01:24 PM
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Re: What's the deal with 'The Nightmare Before Christmas?'

Originally Posted by Drop View Post
UAIOE maybe you should see it again, you might like it atleast like it a little more. Or not, but that's fine. I think the film appeals to specific tastes and yours may not be one of them.
I think this will be impossible with my dislike for Tim Burton's art style, which I tend to believe this movie has a lot of.

But I'll also agree that it probably doesn't appeal to my tastes. That is probably the only reason I can think of why I was totally underwhelmed with the movie.
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Old 12-08-09, 01:34 PM
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Re: What's the deal with 'The Nightmare Before Christmas?'

Originally Posted by Drop View Post
Why is it so hard for some of you to separate the film from it's fans or the culture around it?
Because it's everywhere, and it annoys me. Maybe if I didn't go to Disneyland all the time I wouldn't see it so much, but I do and it's so commercialized and merchandized and cutesy that I just get irritated. I know that I probably love a thousand other things that could fit into that category, but for some reason this irks me more than anything else.
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Old 12-08-09, 02:00 PM
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Re: What's the deal with 'The Nightmare Before Christmas?'

Still one of my favorite films. I even have some of the merchandise and I have never smeared white paint on my face and drawn on a frown with black lipstick. I also like Scarface and don't let the fact that a bunch of wanna be gangsta rappers love it ruin it for me.
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Old 10-22-10, 10:23 AM
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Re: What's the deal with 'The Nightmare Before Christmas?'

I can't stand Tim Burton, I can't stand goth/emo/death-related stuff, and I can't stand themes in which something is labeled as "dark for the sake of being dark".

So I just blind-bought the blu-ray of Nightmare Before Christmas the other day for 12 bucks, and this is one of the best blind buys I have ever done. I had never seen the film in 1993 nor did I ever want to rent it for the above reasons, but this movie is phenomenal! A totally excellent film with great character, story, animation, and especially the music!

I probably liked it too because it didn't have Johnny Depp or Helen Bonham Carter doing the voices. I totally forgot about how in the old days (pre-1995) that animated films actually used real voice actors and not movie actors as they do now.
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Old 10-22-10, 10:36 AM
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Re: What's the deal with 'The Nightmare Before Christmas?'

Originally Posted by toddly6666 View Post
I can't stand Tim Burton, I can't stand goth/emo/death-related stuff, and I can't stand themes in which something is labeled as "dark for the sake of being dark".
Sounds like you have a closed mind, so I stopped reading there and added you to my ignore list.

If you ever grow up a bit I suggest you at least give the movie a try, perhaps it won't be to your tastes -- but at least you'll have an informed option.

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Old 10-22-10, 10:49 AM
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Re: What's the deal with 'The Nightmare Before Christmas?'

Originally Posted by toddly6666 View Post
I can't stand Tim Burton, I can't stand goth/emo/death-related stuff, and I can't stand themes in which something is labeled as "dark for the sake of being dark".

So I just blind-bought the blu-ray of Nightmare Before Christmas the other day for 12 bucks, and this is one of the best blind buys I have ever done. I had never seen the film in 1993 nor did I ever want to rent it for the above reasons, but this movie is phenomenal! A totally excellent film with great character, story, animation, and especially the music!

I probably liked it too because it didn't have Johnny Depp or Helen Bonham Carter doing the voices. I totally forgot about how in the old days (pre-1995) that animated films actually used real voice actors and not movie actors as they do now.

Iím glad you enjoyed it. I still think itís a phenomenal movie even though with merchandising itís been a little over saturated. As far as voice acting goes, Danny Elfman was the singing voice of Jack Skelington.
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Old 10-22-10, 01:44 PM
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Re: What's the deal with 'The Nightmare Before Christmas?'

Originally Posted by toddly6666 View Post
I probably liked it too because it didn't have Johnny Depp or Helen Bonham Carter doing the voices. I totally forgot about how in the old days (pre-1995) that animated films actually used real voice actors and not movie actors as they do now.
I don't know about that. Chris Sarandon, Catherine O'Hara, William Hickey, Paul Reubens, Glen Shadix (though he later transitioned to voice work) were all definite movie actors. It didn't have the star power of modern animated films, but I wouldn't call them voice actors.
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Old 10-22-10, 02:23 PM
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Re: What's the deal with 'The Nightmare Before Christmas?'

It's one of my favorite movies... maybe because it's original. Traditionally I watch it twice a year. Halloween and then around Christmas.
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Old 10-22-10, 02:38 PM
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Re: What's the deal with 'The Nightmare Before Christmas?'

It's a great film, but I too am bugged how Henry Sellick gets the shaft. His genius is only further proven when you see the stop motion film that Burton did direct (Corpse Bride) and it's a pale shaddow of Nightmare.

It has also always anoyed me how Disney clearly didn't like the film upon initial release, tagging it with "Touchstone Pictures" and giving it comparitively little publicity. 8 to 10 years latter when it snowballed into a huge hit suddenly they love it, with annual revivals and re-releases, tons of merchendising, rides at the theme parks, etc. If they'd lavished that attention on the film when it was new it would have been a much bigger hit. Their reversal just shows such hypocrisy. They don't really want to foster anything new.
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Old 10-22-10, 03:17 PM
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Re: What's the deal with 'The Nightmare Before Christmas?'

Originally Posted by Groucho View Post
Sounds like you have a closed mind, so I stopped reading there and added you to my ignore list.

If you ever grow up a bit I suggest you at least give the movie a try, perhaps it won't be to your tastes -- but at least you'll have an informed option.

Read on because your post makes no sense if you continued reading my post!


Originally Posted by majorjoe23 View Post
I don't know about that. Chris Sarandon, Catherine O'Hara, William Hickey, Paul Reubens, Glen Shadix (though he later transitioned to voice work) were all definite movie actors. It didn't have the star power of modern animated films, but I wouldn't call them voice actors.
I'm talking more on the lines of actually telling the audience who is voicing the characters in the trailers such as "starring the voices of.... Eddie Murphy, Johnny Depp, Cameron Diaz, Bruce Willis, Meryl Streep!"


Originally Posted by Lemmy View Post
and, honestly, I can't wrap my head around the popularity. There's really very little (read: nothing) in this film that I enjoy. But I just don't get it.
It's because you can't relate to the anorexic protagonist?
Spoiler:
continuing our ongoing inside joke
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Old 10-22-10, 03:28 PM
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Re: What's the deal with 'The Nightmare Before Christmas?'

"Coraline" is as good as it is because of the source material. Henry Selick is skilled at animation but he needs someone creative guiding him and that's what Burton did on "TNBC". Burton was essentially the creative director and Selick was the technical director and if anything Burton is the one who has suffered by constantly having "TNBC" excluded by obsessive nerds who give too much weight to an official credit. I'm sure this is why he actually took the co-director credit on "The Corpse Bride" when there was a very similar arrangement with the animation director.

Take Neil Gaiman, Tim Burton or Wes Anderson out of the equation and Selick gives you "Monkeybone". I mean, the guy is good at what he does but what he does is bring the vision of others to life.
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Old 10-22-10, 04:01 PM
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Re: What's the deal with 'The Nightmare Before Christmas?'

Originally Posted by toddly6666 View Post
I'm talking more on the lines of actually telling the audience who is voicing the characters in the trailers such as "starring the voices of.... Eddie Murphy, Johnny Depp, Cameron Diaz, Bruce Willis, Meryl Streep!"
Good point. I remember being reading the credits after watching the movie.
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Old 10-22-10, 07:42 PM
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Re: What's the deal with 'The Nightmare Before Christmas?'

Originally Posted by mmconhea View Post
It's one of my favorite movies... maybe because it's original. Traditionally I watch it twice a year. Halloween and then around Christmas.
it's a "modern American classic"

it's in my top ten movies list.
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Old 10-22-10, 07:56 PM
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Re: What's the deal with 'The Nightmare Before Christmas?'

Originally Posted by Lemmy View Post
Right on, bro; I feel your pain. And I've seen the film twice in theaters, and several "at home" viewings. Why so many times, you say, if I didn't like it the first time? Well, try being married to a goth/pagan chick, and her two bratty kids love the flick, too.

So, yes, I've seen it many times, and I never liked it any better than the first time I saw it...
I actually watched some of "Beetlejuice" recently and I didn't run into any problems with it, but that might also be because I liked the movie as a kid.

I'd still pass on "Nightmare"...."Batman Returns" as well.
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Old 10-22-10, 08:40 PM
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Re: What's the deal with 'The Nightmare Before Christmas?'

What's the deal with Beetlejuice.........................
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Old 10-22-10, 11:10 PM
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Re: What's the deal with 'The Nightmare Before Christmas?'

Originally Posted by toddly6666 View Post
I can't stand Tim Burton, I can't stand goth/emo/death-related stuff, and I can't stand themes in which something is labeled as "dark for the sake of being dark".
It's one of the reasons I can't watch the entire movie for some reason I lose interest.

----------------

Now Caroline that was a cute movie.
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Old 10-23-10, 10:05 AM
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Re: What's the deal with 'The Nightmare Before Christmas?'

Originally Posted by Drop View Post
Why is it so hard for some of you to separate the film from it's fans or the culture around it?..................
... The brilliance is still there and nothing should change that. When I watch a great film I forget all about anything that it's spawned and just enjoy what I'm watching. If it's that good of film that is what it should do.
Originally Posted by KillerCannibal View Post
Because it's everywhere, and it annoys me. Maybe if I didn't go to Disneyland all the time I wouldn't see it so much, but I do and it's so commercialized and merchandized and cutesy that I just get irritated. I know that I probably love a thousand other things that could fit into that category, but for some reason this irks me more than anything else.
Do you like "The Beatles" less because they are advertised and merchandise everywhere as the best band that ever was?
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Old 10-23-10, 11:46 AM
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Re: What's the deal with 'The Nightmare Before Christmas?'

Originally Posted by Mabuse View Post
It's a great film, but I too am bugged how Henry Sellick gets the shaft. His genius is only further proven when you see the stop motion film that Burton did direct (Corpse Bride) and it's a pale shaddow of Nightmare.
Tim Burton also directed the stop-motion short "Vincent," so he had the chops for it at one point (back when TNBC was first conceived).

Originally Posted by Mabuse View Post
It has also always anoyed me how Disney clearly didn't like the film upon initial release, tagging it with "Touchstone Pictures" and giving it comparitively little publicity.
I don't think it was that Disney "didn't like the film," but that it was too dark a film to fit in with the image of "Disney" at that point. The last "dark" Disney animated film before that was The Black Cauldron, and that didn't do well.

From wikipedia:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nightma...istmas#Release
Walt Disney Pictures decided to release the film under their Touchstone Pictures banner because they thought Nightmare would be "too dark and scary for kids". Selick remembered...

...Around the release of the film, Touchstone president David Hoberman quoted, "I hope Nightmare goes out and makes a fortune. If it does, great. If it doesn't, that doesn't negate the validity of the process."
I also remember the film being fairly well marketed, I remember seeing a number of ads for it on TV and such. It's just a hard sell. Kids may love it, but parents are uneasy about taking them to "dark" films. And then there's people who don't like "dark for the sake of being dark" who may ignore the film for decades before watching it. Its success was definitely a slow burn.

Originally Posted by Mabuse View Post
ITheir reversal just shows such hypocrisy. They don't really want to foster anything new.
If they didn't want to foster anything new, why did they produce the film in the first place? Props should be given to Disney for at least taking the chance.

Besides, I'd rather have a movie studio "hypocritically" celebrating a film later on when it's a success than sticking to its guns and ignoring it forever. Should we be mad that The Princess Bride didn't break the box-office when it was first released, or happy that it's now considered a classic?


Originally Posted by Guru Askew View Post
"Coraline" is as good as it is because of the source material. Henry Selick is skilled at animation but he needs someone creative guiding him and that's what Burton did on "TNBC". Burton was essentially the creative director and Selick was the technical director and if anything Burton is the one who has suffered by constantly having "TNBC" excluded by obsessive nerds who give too much weight to an official credit.
Burton came up with the story and designed the characters for TNBC, but he wasn't very hands-on during the actual production. From wikipedia:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nightma...mas#Production
On the direction of the film, Selick reflected, "It's as though he [Burton] laid the egg, and I sat on it and hatched it. He wasn't involved in a hands-on way, but his hand is in it. It was my job to make it look like "a Tim Burton film", which is not so different from my own films." When asked on Burton's involvement, Selick claimed, "I don't want to take away from Tim, but he was not in San Francisco when we made it. He came up five times over two years, and spent no more than eight or ten days in total." ..Burton found production somewhat difficult because he was directing Batman Returns and in pre-production of Ed Wood.
Originally Posted by Guru Askew View Post
I'm sure this is why he actually took the co-director credit on "The Corpse Bride" when there was a very similar arrangement with the animation director.
I don't think the arrangement was similar. From all accounts, Burton actually was a co-director on Corpse Bride. Also, the DGA won't allow someone to be listed as a director, co or otherwise, unless they actually did directing (to prevent producers arbitrarily given themselves or others credit).

Originally Posted by Guru Askew View Post
Take Neil Gaiman, Tim Burton or Wes Anderson out of the equation and Selick gives you "Monkeybone". I mean, the guy is good at what he does but what he does is bring the vision of others to life.
You do realize that Monkeybone is an adaptation as well, right? And you forgot about Roald Dahl.
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Old 10-23-10, 03:44 PM
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Re: What's the deal with 'The Nightmare Before Christmas?'

Originally Posted by Jay G. View Post

If they didn't want to foster anything new, why did they produce the film in the first place?
Disney financed it as part of a multi-picture contract they had with Burton that also included Cabin Boy, Ed Wood, and James and the Giant Peach. When a studio enters into a first look production contract with a producer/director of the level of Burton they throw away their ability to say no. They can pass, but they can't pass too many times. Disney wanted to get into the "Burton business", so they were obliged to finance what he brought them. Later they dump the product with minimal marketing when they decided they didn't want to put good money after bad. It happens all the time. In the case of Burton's Disney deal they dumped all the films he developed there, even though two of the four are arguably his masterpieces (Wood and Nightmare).
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Old 10-23-10, 04:25 PM
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Re: What's the deal with 'The Nightmare Before Christmas?'

Originally Posted by Mabuse View Post
Disney financed it as part of a multi-picture contract they had with Burton that also included Cabin Boy, Ed Wood, and James and the Giant Peach. When a studio enters into a first look production contract with a producer/director of the level of Burton they throw away their ability to say no. They can pass, but they can't pass too many times.
Did they pass on anything? What happens if they pass too much?
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Old 10-25-10, 11:03 AM
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Re: What's the deal with 'The Nightmare Before Christmas?'

Originally Posted by Jay G. View Post
Did they pass on anything? What happens if they pass too much?
In theory the studio can pass all you want. But the filmmaker can then take the project somewhere else. If the studio passes too much they simply run the risk of pissing off the filmmaker and souring the relationship.

The following is all my conjecture: In the case of TNBC, think about 1992. For animation, Disney was the only game in town. Fox, Dreamworks, and Warner would all jump into the animation game later in the decade, but in 1992 Disney was the only place to take an animated project. Burton pitches these two pojects (Nightmare and James) and Disney picks them up because a) they "know" animation and b) even if they dump the poject and lose money on it they control the rights and they'd rather control the rights to any and all animation properties than let another studio get the jump on R&D. If another studio took nightmare and made it a big hit right out of the gate, that would extinguish Disney's flame as the "kings of animation" just a little bit. This is effectivly what happened when Dreamworks began having hit animated features in the late '90s.
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