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Old 05-20-08 | 02:07 PM
  #51  
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Originally Posted by Cardiac161
But now, it does look very rushed and weird that Indy pretty much developed his adult characterization inside that circus train!!!
Without that sequence, we wouldn't have had the "You lost today kid, but that doesn't mean you have to like it" moment where the hat goes on Phoenix and comes up to reveal Ford - one of my all-time favorite Spielberg shots.
Old 05-20-08 | 03:08 PM
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Originally Posted by DieselsDen
LOL!

I don't hate THE LAST CRUSADE, but I was certainly bored by it. The tank scene was unexciting, and reeked too much of the original chase from RAIDERS, and the motorcycle pursuit was slow and anemic. Some of the special effects were so shaky, I wondered how they were acceptable by Spielberg (the shot where the Nazi is shaking his fist at the zeppelin was painfully fake, as was the airplane dogfight and some of the boat chase). The saving grace was the final scene, where "the penitent man shall pass" which was different and had some dramatic edge.

I know TEMPLE OF DOOM really polarizes fans, and I agree that some of the jokes made at the Indians expense is regrettable. But out of the three sequels, it is the most distinctive and original.
I 100% agree with you!

Everything seems so..."effortless" in Last Crusade that I did not have the same "edge of the seat" excitment as TOD and Raiders.

Always think TOD is the best comic book movie that is not based on comic book... It was one of my best movie experiance the first time I watched it...
Old 05-20-08 | 03:24 PM
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Originally Posted by whoopdido
Sean O'Hara, are you of Indian descent? If not, then it's none of your business and you shouldn't concern yourself with how Indians were portrayed in this film. You say that the Indians in "Doom" couldn't help themselves and they needed the "white man" to protect them. If Indians have a problem with "Doom" then they can talk about it themselves. They sure don't need you to come to their political correct aid.
Yeah, I have to be an Indian to complain about movies that play on colonial stereotypes of the non-white races.
Old 05-20-08 | 03:26 PM
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I'm amazed at the amount of bile being tossed at The Last Crusade. Everyone I know outside of this thread, myself included, thinks the film is almost equal to Raiders in quality.

And honestly, why is anyone surprised that a Spielberg film is reductive? Come on now.
Old 05-20-08 | 03:34 PM
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Reasons why Temple of Doom is far better than most give it credit for (and why Last Crusade isn't too hot)
by Alexandra DuPont

THE TEMPLE OF DOOM:
Most people hate it. I sort of love it. In fact, if I feel like spinning an Indy
movie in the background in the years to come, I can pretty much guarantee that it
will be the last 40 minutes of Indiana Jones and the Temple of Doom.

Mind you, I'll be the first to admit that Temple of Doom has deeply embedded
problems, and that there are popular reasons for disliking it — even hating it.
The dialogue is ham-fisted. (I invariably cringe during the "What are you —
a lion tamer?"/"I'm allowing you to tag along" exchange. "A
lion." "Allowing." A homophone! I get it!) It's surprisingly
brutal in the middle. In women's-lib terms, Kate Capshaw's scream-queen
Willie Scott is such a step backward from Marion Ravenwood that I'm mildly surprised
NOW didn't picket the screenings. (The future Mrs. Spielberg, God bless her,
got handed a terribly written role — Willie's the shrieking Jar-Jar of the Indiana
Jones series.) And let's not even get into the film's retro-colonialist
overtones (which I find sort of perversely funny, but still). And the film is so
different from its predecessor — confined largely to one locale, not as sophisticated
or quest-driven, and very nearly Satanic in its depictions of evil — that it really
couldn't help but let viewers down. And the bad blood persists to this day,
people still slam "the second one."

Still, despite all that, I managed to arrive at the following list of reasons to
love the flick:

1. That unimpeachably awesome opening fight over the diamond and antidote, which
contains tributes to classic musicals and Hitchcock and just absolutely rocks the
house;

2. Ke Huy Kwan as Short Round, who — despite being handed cute-kid dialogue that
includes the lines "Hold onto your potatoes!" and "You call him Doctah
Jones, DOLL!" — is quite possibly the most likeable and least obtrusive child
sidekick in movie history. Check out the wonderful, genuinely warm give-and-take
between Kwan and Ford as they play poker or exchange hats;

3. That "Nice try, Lao Che!" visual gag;

4. Harrison Ford's terrific performance — arguably his best as Jones. I love
how Indy stars out as a total greedy asshole, with strong shades of Bogart in Treasure
of Sierra Madre, and how there's a distinct character arc as he evolves into
a Pied-Piper/holy avenger;

5. The movie's look — again, the best in the series — with its striking wide-angle
close ups of Indy's face and strong use of reds and shadows. Temple of Doom
is a manual on how to use color in film, no joke. This movie contains Spielberg's
busiest frames, and it's all beautiful. It's a pornography of cinematography;

6. John Williams' score, which is among his very best — expanding richly
on the original and adding wonderful themes for Short Round and the slave children;

7. Vampire bats! Severed thumbs!

8. The matte paintings of Pankot Palace, which are among the best matte paintings
ever;

9. The sexy, playful, totally '80s, beautifully edited cat-and-mouse sequence
where way-horny Indy and Willie are trying to out-wait each other, only to have
the flirtation interrupted by a Thuggee assassin. (How can you not love the way
that thug steps out of that wall mural?);

10. The super-icky, super-taut bug-tunnel and death-trap set piece, which is a
perfect transition between the palace and the Temple of Doom and which very nearly
kicks the ass of the Well of Souls sequence (it certainly makes your skin crawl
more) and features that great closing gag where Indy grabs his hat as the door's
closing;

11. The way the movie shifts so abruptly into scenes of human sacrifice and child
cruelty. I'm sorry, I just love what a cinema bomb Spielberg and Lucas drop
here: Yes, the horror's laid on a bit thick, but come on — how totally cathartic
are those last 40 minutes as a result, when Indy snaps out of the Black Sleep of
Kali and dishes out the hurt to faceless Thuggee goons?

12. That little 1940s tip of the hat Indy gives to that cobra statue as he's
stealing the stones — a perfect Bogart moment;

13. Amrish Puri as Mola Ram — by far the scariest and most depraved villain in
the series. He's mindlessly scary like Orcs are scary, you know? He looks like
what Abe Vigoda would look like if he were a sadistic Indian child molester;

14. The way Indiana Jones doesn't just look drugged when he's in the Black
Sleep of Kali, but instead looks like he's really into all the sadism and blood,
like he's actually tapped into some dark part of his personality that was there
all along;

15. And, best of all, the movie's final 40 minutes, which are inventive and
cathartic and full of righteous fury and pain and thrilling action — it's Lucas
and Spielberg working out all their action-geek demons without apology, and God
bless 'em for it. I mean, has any movie ever piled one action sequence on top
of the next so successfully? That voodoo conveyor-belt fight followed by the mine-car
chase followed by the water tunnel followed by the dual-swordsman tango followed
by the rope-bridge blowout? With all kinds of semi-perverse shots like the one where
both Indy and Short Round are beating the crap out of age-appropriate foes?


Really. The movie's aged well. Better than you might think. Give it a second
chance. It's total geek crack.


"Uh-huh. And now I suppose you're going to say the third film "sucks,"
right?"

Now, now. I wouldn't dare to blanket-slag Indiana Jones and the Last Crusade;
in fact, I actually softened on it quite a bit over the years, which I'm sure
should disturb me but doesn't.

Certainly, there's some wonderful chemistry between Ford and Sean Connery, who
plays dotty, arrogant Dr. Jones paterfamilias (a casting coup, that). And River
Phoenix does an uncanny and quite funny Harrison Ford impression, glaring and smirking
as young Indiana Jones (who, apparently, acquired his whip, hat, fear of snakes
and chin scar in a single afternoon in 1912). And kudos to the late Jeffrey Boam
for writing some lively, character-driven, funny dialogue; it comes as a relief
after the spoken-word atrocities wrought by Katz and Huyck. And that largely improvised
action sequence with the WWI tank? Delicious. (Well, mostly delicious; see below.)

But, all that said: Despite its clearly being Spielberg's favorite and most
personal film in the series — unresolved Daddy issues and all — Last Crusade commits
two filmic sins I won't readily forgive:

1. It resorts to mockery. It's one thing when a sequel tweaks its characters
a little — but Last Crusade revels in making fools of its protagonists, to the degree
that it takes me out of the movie and undermines any sense of danger the film may
hold. While I generally enjoy the Oedipal dynamic between Papa and Junior Jones,
there's just one too many moments for my taste where Henry makes Indiana look
like a total jackass. And don't even get me started about what they did to Marcus
Brody: In Raiders, Brody is an obvious mentor to Indy and no minor badass himself;
as he says, he's only five years too old to have undertaken the quest for the
Ark himself. But in Last Crusade, Brody's a doddering buffoon, a drunk with
Alzheimer's, a man who gets lost in his own museum. Watch how his comedy "bits"
with Sean Connery almost derail any tension to be had in the desert battle with
the tank. It's almost unforgivable. And Sallah, so resourceful and charming
and filled with music in the first film, is kind of a doofus here, stealing camels
for his relatives and otherwise serving as wacky-Arab comic relief.

2. The movie contains very few actual thrills. In Raiders, Indiana Jones took
on sadists, Nazis and a fierce competitor (not to mention a pissed-off ex-girlfriend).
In Temple of Doom, he fell into a subterranean hell and took on the very minions
of Kali. In Last Crusade, he takes on a bumbling group of idiots — and, as a result,
very little of the film's action leads me to believe that Indiana Jones is in
any real danger. Seriously. Who are our bad guys here? Guys in fezzes? A Nazi commander
out of a Mel Brooks movie? And, dear Lord, I very nearly forget that Julian Glover
is even in the damned thing, and he plays the bad guy who gets the supernatural-disintegration
treatment! And Glover was my old flame's acting teacher! Am I really supposed
to consider this British-channeling-American slice of Wonder Bread a threat? Get
back in your AT-AT, General Veers!
Old 05-20-08 | 04:27 PM
  #56  
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Originally Posted by chanster
Context is important, Mr. O'Hara. If you are going to sit and demonize one movie for its completly racist overtones then you should look at the body of the work in which it sits
You mean the Lucas oeuvre, which also includes the Yellow Menace Trade Federation aliens, and the Stepin Fetchit style Jar-Jar?

- which is a homage to the serials of the 30s, 40's and 50's of which Gunga Din and the idea of the evil Nazi German was pervasive.
An homage doesn't have to be uncritical of its inspiration. Galaxy Quest was an homage to Star Trek, but it pointed out the sillier aspects of the series as well. L.A. Confidential is an homage to film noir, but it portrayed the corruption and racism of the police force, which no film of the '40s and '50s could get away with. But the Indy films are just straight, unquestioning paeans to the mindset of the films its ripping off.

If you want to say those movies should never be referred to again because they are pervasively racist, thats fine
No, Gunga Din and such like should be watched and understood in light of the time they were made. But the Indy films weren't made in the '30s.

but its still bullshit and I would like to see you condemn every other Indiana Jones movie for perpetuating stereotypes of (1) Germans as all Nazis
The film depicted the German military as all Nazis, which is historically accurate. But in 1935 there were no Thugs in India -- and even if there were, they weren't Hindu religious fanatics as the film suggests -- and the Indians weren't a bunch of peaceful peasants incapable of defending themselves.

(2) all French as sniveling douchebags (3) all Chinese as no good double dealing con artists.
Well yeah, the portrayal of the Chinese is pretty egregious -- not only do you have the duplicitous villains, but Lucas and Spielberg's idea of "good" Chinese are a faithful servant who is honored to die for Indy, and a kid whom Indy is Americanizing.
Old 05-20-08 | 04:41 PM
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Originally Posted by Suprmallet
I'm amazed at the amount of bile being tossed at The Last Crusade. Everyone I know outside of this thread, myself included, thinks the film is almost equal to Raiders in quality.

And honestly, why is anyone surprised that a Spielberg film is reductive? Come on now.
I should mention that I don't hate Last Crusade. I still like it and was a great addition to the Indy adventure. As such, I love all three films and am sure to be enthralled with the 4th one.

I guess people can feel some apprehension towards where the Indy sequels have gone to and it's understandable since it is almost impossible to recreate the excitement of the first film. I think if the Indiana Jones stories were all connected (such as Aliens series or Terminator series), then I'm sure every film after Raiders would've been very different as we know now & would probably even be better if not the same as the first film since there is a plot & character progression throughout.

But of course, it has always been decided that every Indiana Jones should be able to stand on its own in the very beginning.
Old 05-20-08 | 04:47 PM
  #58  
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Originally Posted by DieselsDen
LOL!

I don't hate THE LAST CRUSADE, but I was certainly bored by it. The tank scene was unexciting, and reeked too much of the original chase from RAIDERS, and the motorcycle pursuit was slow and anemic. Some of the special effects were so shaky, I wondered how they were acceptable by Spielberg (the shot where the Nazi is shaking his fist at the zeppelin was painfully fake, as was the airplane dogfight and some of the boat chase). The saving grace was the final scene, where "the penitent man shall pass" which was different and had some dramatic edge.

I know TEMPLE OF DOOM really polarizes fans, and I agree that some of the jokes made at the Indians expense is regrettable. But out of the three sequels, it is the most distinctive and original.
Agree 100%.

I don't HATE Last Crusade, but to me it's the least of the three films.

The action sequences come off more as set pieces than something that organically flows from the story, and that makes them seem a little boring. Sort of like Well, it's an Indian Jones movie, so we're going to need some good chases. We haven't used motorcycles, tanks, or airplanes yet. Let's put those in.

The young Indie bit with River Phoenix, I also felt seemed a little too "cute" for its own good.

There are a lot of parts I did like, though: The finale was quite good. The Hitler cameo.

I enjoyed TOD more because it was a materially different kind of Indiana Jones movie than Raiders was. Different tone. Different side of Indiana Jones. Different "exotic" locale.
Old 05-20-08 | 10:19 PM
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Originally Posted by Sean O'Hara
You mean the Lucas oeuvre, which also includes the Yellow Menace Trade Federation aliens, and the Stepin Fetchit style Jar-Jar?
No, I meant Raiders of the Lost Ark and the Last Crusade, which are the more relevant discussion.

An homage doesn't have to be uncritical of its inspiration. Galaxy Quest was an homage to Star Trek, but it pointed out the sillier aspects of the series as well. L.A. Confidential is an homage to film noir, but it portrayed the corruption and racism of the police force, which no film of the '40s and '50s could get away with. But the Indy films are just straight, unquestioning paeans to the mindset of the films its ripping off.
Of course the point of Galaxy Quest was to make fun of Star Trek, not as a homage.

No, Gunga Din and such like should be watched and understood in light of the time they were made. But the Indy films weren't made in the '30s.
So do you banish all movies that portray people in a negative light? How about King Kong? Is Peter Jackson a racist? Is King Kong racist?

The film depicted the German military as all Nazis, which is historically accurate. But in 1935 there were no Thugs in India -- and even if there were, they weren't Hindu religious fanatics as the film suggests -- and the Indians weren't a bunch of peaceful peasants incapable of defending themselves.
That is of course, totally incorrect. The German military was probably one of the last bastions of resistance to Hitler, and even during the war, the only credible plot to kill Hitler came from within the German military. And furthermore the German arhaelogist was a civilian and she was a Nazi as well.


Of course you fail to answer the points about the ineptitude of the British military to find out about the Mola Ram and the fact that it was because of the British controlling the power, that was the real reason for the ineffectiveness of the rajah.
Old 05-20-08 | 10:22 PM
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I was about 10-11 when I saw Temple of Doom. The bridge sequence continues to be one of my favorite cinema moments ever. When Indy was about to cut the bridge, I was so enthralled that I yelled at the top of my lungs in the theater "CUT THE BRIDGE" My grandfather was with me and to this day continues to give me shit about it. One of the most suspeneful moments in cinema.
Old 05-20-08 | 10:35 PM
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Last Crusade clearly had the weakest action set pieces of the entire trilogy.
Old 05-20-08 | 10:59 PM
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Originally Posted by Shannon Nutt
Without that sequence, we wouldn't have had the "You lost today kid, but that doesn't mean you have to like it" moment where the hat goes on Phoenix and comes up to reveal Ford - one of my all-time favorite Spielberg shots.


QFT!!

(since I just figured out what that means...haha)
Old 05-21-08 | 12:36 AM
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I'm going to watch Temple of Doom now.

Oh, and all of this crap about the racism and all that bullshit in ToD is really stupid. Ok, it's just a movie. It's a fun damn Indiana Jones movie. Stop looking for all kinds of meaning that isn't there and trying to demonize Lucas and Spielberg. Thinking that they were trying to show how "the Indians depend on the white man" is just retarded. It's. A. Movie. They weren't trying to be racist assholes (in the form of a fun action/adventure movie mind you) and try to get in some subtext about what race of people they feel are inferior or what have you. They were trying to make a fun entertaining movie and they succeded.
Old 05-21-08 | 09:57 AM
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Originally Posted by Suprmallet
I'm amazed at the amount of bile being tossed at The Last Crusade. Everyone I know outside of this thread, myself included, thinks the film is almost equal to Raiders in quality.

And honestly, why is anyone surprised that a Spielberg film is reductive? Come on now.
I don't hate Crusade at all, its just the weakest of the three IMHO.

There are some great character moments like the "you lost today kid", all of the Connery-Indiana interaction and the ending sequence is awesome..I just love the shot of them riding into the sunset. But as somebody mentioned otherwise, the action sequences seem to be the weakest of the trilogy, and
the most "isolated" set pieces.

I mean with Raiders and Doom, you have like 40 minutes of action non stop (escape from Well, fight at the airplane, turns into the best car attack scene in Cinema). And Doom you have the "Indy awakes from the Black Sleep, to Thugee fights, to Mine car chases, to Cut the Bridge). Man thats incredible.

Crusade has much shorter set pieces (the tank scene sure feels like a repeat of the truck scene, but not as good IMHO) , the airplane scene wasn't that exciting (although Connery's use of birds was nice). The ending trials aren't that exciting except for the "Pennintent Man shall pass") and honestly at the end it is Elsa who gives the bad guy his comeuppance while Indy sits and watches.

And moreover, it does re-write Indiana's history a bit, given what we saw in Doom.

Last edited by chanster; 05-21-08 at 10:01 AM.
Old 05-21-08 | 11:54 AM
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Originally Posted by Lara Means
Last Crusade clearly had the weakest action set pieces of the entire trilogy.
But it had the best STORY. I think that's what seperates the lovers from the haters on this one...if you go to Indy for action, Last Crusade was the most disappointing of the three. If you go to Indy for characterzation, Last Crusade was the best.
Old 05-21-08 | 12:40 PM
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I'm a little late to the party, so forgive me if I want to respond to the original topic. Anyways, all the reasons everyone has provided as to why TOD is a prequel still fall a little flat with me.

There's nothing about TOD that pretends it takes place before ROTLA. There's the repeated joke where Jones reaches for his pistol to shoot the swordsmen. (Complete with Williams' score from the original movie's market scene!) There's even an Ark of the Covenant reference that's obviously a joke, and makes absolutely no sense if TOD is first in the series.

I once posted a thread explaining why TOD is a prequel, but it wasn't exactly received too warmly around here :

http://forum.dvdtalk.com/showthread.php?t=327812
Old 05-21-08 | 12:50 PM
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Originally Posted by Suprmallet
I'm amazed at the amount of bile being tossed at The Last Crusade. Everyone I know outside of this thread, myself included, thinks the film is almost equal to Raiders in quality.
Truth. I like it even better than Raiders, actually. I hate Doom. That movie really, really sucks...sad part is that if you take Willie out of the fucking picture, it actually doesn't get too bad. Replace 'love interest' with 'saddled by a kid' and it could have been really good.

As far as the 'racist' elements of the movie, I will say it is only so if you're WAAAAY too overly sensitive. I suppose the right thing to do would have been, "Oh, your rock is gone? Well, you can get it back on your own. Good luck, fuckers, oh, and thanks for all your food! kthxbye."

I guess if your job is working with the NAACP and you're white, you must be racist, since you think all blacks need your help for their own advancement, since they "can't do it themselves". Like most PC garbage, this is making something up to get pissed off about.
Old 05-21-08 | 12:52 PM
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Originally Posted by Shannon Nutt
But it had the best STORY
i dunno. i always thought it was hokey having a centuries old knight actually there guarding the chalis. i could have done without that as i think it was the most implausible and fantastical moment in the series. i could buy demonic forces protruding from a religious ark and casting out non-believers and i could buy a demonic-worshipping cult, but a Medieval knight (physical or not) actually telling the would-be possessors of eternal life that they chose unwisely and wisely was just too much for such a tactile series. and when i say tactile i don't necessarily mean grounded in reality, but all the myths, guardians of myths, and villians were hands on, the end of TLC was too apparitional. but yes, the characterizations and human moments were the best in the last.

Last edited by OldBoy; 05-21-08 at 12:55 PM.
Old 05-21-08 | 01:01 PM
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But the knight was evidence that the grail actually worked.

And the apparitions from the Ark were not demonic. They were angelic, but were punishing those who should not have been opening the Ark. I'm surprised Belloq didn't know that. Only a member of the Jewish priesthood could even view the Ark, and even then only on Yom Kippur.
Old 05-21-08 | 01:37 PM
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Originally Posted by Suprmallet
But the knight was evidence that the grail actually worked.
right. thus the whole fantastical quality that i didn't dig. i mean don't get me wrong, i really like TLC, just that part i could have done without and imo felt out of place.
Old 05-21-08 | 03:15 PM
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Originally Posted by scott1598
right. thus the whole fantastical quality that i didn't dig. i mean don't get me wrong, i really like TLC, just that part i could have done without and imo felt out of place.

I hate to tell you this, but if you thought the grail/knight in Last Crusade was too "fantastical", you're going to HATE Crystal Skull.
Old 05-21-08 | 03:24 PM
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Originally Posted by Shannon Nutt
But it had the best STORY. I think that's what seperates the lovers from the haters on this one...if you go to Indy for action, Last Crusade was the most disappointing of the three. If you go to Indy for characterzation, Last Crusade was the best.
Well, I dunno about that...

At least in terms of characterization. The relationship between Jones and his father felt forced to me. Estranged son trying to make up with neglectful dad was cliched and didn't add much to Indy's character. Sure, the Connery character changed at the end but I didn't have enough emotion invested in him to begin with. The late Gene Siskel stated that he didn't believe their relationship for a second, and I pretty much agree.

On the other hand, the relationship between Indy and Short Round was full of chemistry, and does not seem forced despite Spielberg's tendency to become overwrought and overly sentimental. Watching them play poker, ride on elephants, talk about him scoring with Willie Scott, or even riding on the mine car was funny, touching and even more importantly, natural. Other than describing how Indy found "his little bodyguard" not once did the movie have to talk down to us explaining their relationship.

Two specific scenes stick out for me: Indy reprimands Shorty like a father when they are trapped in the cavern with the falling spikes. Hurt by Indy's tone of voice, Shorty backs away after he is told to "stand against a wall." and accidentally sets off a trap, and they argue again. Not only was the situation humorous and tension-filled, but showed how effortlessly they play off each other.

The second scene has already been mentioned before: Indy winks at Shorty after being awakened from his trance, and later they exchange hats and hug while Jones apologizes. (Williams does a nice job using both Indy and Shorty themes.) As far as escapist films go, it was as touching and warm as anything I've ever seen.

Again, I didn't hate LAST CRUSADE. But when it comes to charm and wit above all the noisy spectacle, it doesn't hold a candle to TEMPLE OF DOOM.
Old 05-21-08 | 03:29 PM
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From: Northern California
Originally Posted by DarkestPhoenix

As far as the 'racist' elements of the movie, I will say it is only so if you're WAAAAY too overly sensitive. I suppose the right thing to do would have been, "Oh, your rock is gone? Well, you can get it back on your own. Good luck, fuckers, oh, and thanks for all your food! kthxbye."

I guess if your job is working with the NAACP and you're white, you must be racist, since you think all blacks need your help for their own advancement, since they "can't do it themselves". Like most PC garbage, this is making something up to get pissed off about.
I think the racist elements came mainly from the food banquet scene, where all the jokes were made at the expense of the Indian culture where everything was portrayed over the top. "Snake surprise" and "chilled monkey brains" were ridiculous concepts, and made Indians look like savages. I don't think it was racist, but it was certainly degrading.
Old 05-21-08 | 04:43 PM
  #74  
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From: Colorado
Originally Posted by Shannon Nutt
I hate to tell you this, but if you thought the grail/knight in Last Crusade was too "fantastical", you're going to HATE Crystal Skull.
I've purposely avoided any spoilers from the new Indy movie, but I did want to learn a little something about the crystal skull(s) themselves before seeing the flick. I caught some special on TV the other day and boy are there some kooky theories going around about the whole story. Some are so ridiculous, I can't believe credible scientists would actually go in front of TV cameras to talk about it.
Old 05-21-08 | 05:31 PM
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From: Chicago, IL
Originally Posted by rennervision
I'm a little late to the party, so forgive me if I want to respond to the original topic. Anyways, all the reasons everyone has provided as to why TOD is a prequel still fall a little flat with me.

There's nothing about TOD that pretends it takes place before ROTLA. There's the repeated joke where Jones reaches for his pistol to shoot the swordsmen. (Complete with Williams' score from the original movie's market scene!) There's even an Ark of the Covenant reference that's obviously a joke, and makes absolutely no sense if TOD is first in the series.

I once posted a thread explaining why TOD is a prequel, but it wasn't exactly received too warmly around here :

http://forum.dvdtalk.com/showthread.php?t=327812
As far as I remember, the decision was made to make Doom a prequel solely for the reason that they didn't want to explain lack of Marion. It never made a whole lot of sense. I guess when they made the decision to go prequel, they decided to harden the character of Indiana a bit to show his transformation.

I could never quite understand why Jones was dealing in antiquities, unless he was trading a fake antiquity for a real antiquity..which I guess might be possible but it was never developed.


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