Dr. DVD

While I would initially agree, if you have read the comic a few times, that's actually a bit off the mark. Granted, Ozymandias is not a traditional hero, but he does bring about peace in the world. He had the same motivations in the movie, but a lot got lost in translation to the screen. This really is something that one needs to delve a bit deeper than usual. I recommend reading the GN if you haven't already.

jfoobar

Spellbinder (1988, Tim Daly, Kim Preston, Rick Rossovich) has kind of an Arlington Road-esque ending.

james2025a

This is open to interpretation i guess, but here are the ones i have to offer. Fallen by the way is a great one and i always liked that movie.

Amadeus
The Dark Knight
Harry Potter and the Goblet of Fire
In the Mouth of Madness
King Kong
Soylent Green (Been a while since i have seen this..but i don't recall a happy ending)
The Fog (Original...not seen the remake)
Videodrome

kstublen

I have read it, several times. While I agree the graphic novel is open to interpretation, my interpretation is that Ozymandias is a psychopath with delusions of grandeur. He is a mass-murderer, and not a hero in any sense of the word. He can lie to himself all he wants, that those deaths were for the greater good, but that's not true, at least not in my opinion. He's a villain in every sense of the word, and he's the worst kind of villain - the villain that thinks he's the good guy.

And as far as I'm concerned, Silk Spectre and Nite Owl are complicit in the murders for not telling the truth afterward, no matter the consequences. I get why they didn't tell, I really do, but I think they should have exposed the truth regardless.

Yes, The Joker turned Harvey Dent into Two-Face, but in the end The Joker really lost. Neither of the boats was willing to blow the other up and Batman refused to kill him. For The Joker, Batman not killing him is the biggest loss there is.

TimeandTide

Last American Virgin

RocShemp

I believe that is exactly what Alan Moore was going for. The point was further driven home when you see Rorschach's journal at the end. Of all the characters in the book, he was the closest to being the true hero of the story (and he was a militant sociopath).

But in the end, that is sort of the point of the book. None of these so-called heroes were truly heroic.

In the comics maybe but not in the movie. The Joker clearly stated at the end that his endgame was neither killing Batman (who was "just too much fun") or getting the people on the boats to kill one another. That was all distraction while he carried out his true plan (proving he truly was a schemer at heart) of turning Harvey Dent, whom the citizens hailed their White Knight, into just another killer. As a bonus, the Batman (whom many citizens were also using a source of inspiration) took the fall for Dent.

So, yeah, the Joker won at the end of The Dark Knight.

bjh_18

The alternate ending of Dodgeball. They say it's the one they wanted to go with (although that itself is thought by many to be a joke), but the studio wouldn't have it. In my opinion it makes what is a fairly entertaining movie somewhat epic.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mMupw1ICDfA

kstublen

Hm, I guess you're right; it's always tough for me to separate what I know about certain characters, The Joker in particular. I definitely forgot that he said the rest was just a distraction to turn Dent, so thanks for reminding me.

While I enjoyed the movie a lot, it is not without its flaws, one of which you've pointed out: that, despite what he said, The Joker did have plans, goals, and a purpose. Another would be Batman taking the fall for Dent, which makes absolutely no sense whatsoever. If you're going to lie and say someone besides Dent committed the murders, why not just blame them on The Joker while you're at it?

raven56706

Primal Fear
Debbie Does Dallas- East meets West
The Dark Knight
W.

kenbuzz

Fail-Safe

kenbuzz

Wayne's World - original ending

Dr. DVD

While I would be inclined to agree, I think that's far from the truth if you look at it from the perspective of storytelling and don't let your personal opinion get in the way. W. is/was portrayed as a man with a life full of failed endeavors, and being President was another such instance. There really is no bad guy in that movie per se, unless you just see W. as a bad guy in general. This might be a case where the antagonist fails, but the bad guys don't win. Hell, given history, nobody won!

Seven is a favorite of mine, as well as Usual Suspects (Spacey rocks).

Don't know if I have posted this thought before, but an argument could definitely made that "bad guys" win major in the musical Chicago. Two guilty murderesses go free and make money in a show together, the well meaning husband is left in the cold, and the one individual of all the women in prison that might have been innocent (the Russian), is hung.

PopcornTreeCt

Yeah, I never really quite understood the logic of the ending. The Joker managed to destroy Dent and Batman and yet somehow the city is supposed to be safer.

hasslein

A film I've only seen recently, and was really surprised was The Villian. Kirk Douglas, Arnold, Ann-Margret... Bizarre movie... Wile E Coyote actually wins.

RocShemp

I actually got why Batman took the fall for Dent. Well, in theory. The whole idea is that Dent's reputation remains intact and he becomes a martyr that galvanizes the city into saving itself, much like what ocurred when Bruce's parents were murdered.

The idea is that, even though the citizens and the convicts proved themselves overall humane (despite some very vocal dissenters) in the face of the Joker's challenge, they need a banner to unite them. That would be Dent and the crusade that (as far as they know) claimed his life when he confronted the Batman who had crossed the line. Sure, it's doubtful that the city would fall appart if Dent died a killer (and a mad one to boot) but rather than risk stalling the progress they'd made, Batman chose to ensure they were untied under what Dent stood for.

As for making Batman take the fall rather than the Joker, the idea is the driving theme throughout the film that Batman is not a hero. He's a weapon. He's there to keep the criminals scared and beat them down if they cross the line. Such a fascist figure is not what you want as the symbol of hope for your Utopian ideal. So it was necessary to ensure the citizens did not view Batman as a force for good. They needed to view the common man (like Harvey Dent) as their ideal for hope and change.

Nick Danger

There were a whole slew of movies made around 1970 where the protagonist fights a corrupt society, shadowy government forces, or a vast conspiracy -- and loses. I like paranoia movies.

The Parallax View
Soylent Green
The Conversation
Chinatown
Easy Rider
(The second) Invasion of the Body Snatchers
(The first) Stepford Wives

Nick Danger

Also, when the protagonists are a bunch of thieves, do the bad guys win in Bonnie and Clyde or do the bad guys win in the new Ocean's 11?

Dr. DVD

Bonnie and Clyde= Won-the police were the bad guys/protagonists

Oceans 11 = Lost, since it was Terry Benedict

inri222

q & a

1984

dhmac

Colossus: The Forbin Project

(A film I found myself wishing would get remade to have modern-looking computers in it... until I realized just how much they would probably fuck it up.)

Burgundy LaRue

In the horror movie vein, Eden Lake had the baddie getting away with everything.

mike45

I wish they would release this movie on Blu-ray or at least release a decent copy on DVD.

kstublen

Sorry, but I'm not buying it. That ending is just an excuse to have Batman being wanted by the police for the sequel. It just doesn't make sense for Batman to take the heat for murder, when all along he hasn't killed anyone. The fact is, they should view Batman as a force for good, because he is. He is far from a fascist and never dispenses justice; he just stops criminals from carrying out their crimes or catches them red-handed, and then leaves it for the police and prosecutors to do their jobs.

And Harvey Dent still could have been the hero because he gave his life to stop The Joker. Harvey Dent was a big figure in Gotham, and I imagine the headlines would read "The Joker Murders Harvey Dent" or "Harvey Dent Gives Life to Stop The Joker," not "Batman Captures The Joker." In fact, I imagine people would view it as Batman, the vigilante, making it out alive because he isn't a normal person; but Harvey Dent, a normal guy, gave everything for what he believed in. I think, ultimately, people would embrace Dent's memory for that, and not run with Batman as the symbol of hope.

writer106

Fraility

kstublen

Incorrect.