Movies where the bad guy wins?
08-14-07, 06:39 PM
#51
DVD Talk Limited Edition
Snatch (Maybe Dennis Farina would get that fucking diamond after all!)
Rocky I. Although not the point of the movie, Balboa DID lose the fight, didn't he?
Rocky I. Although not the point of the movie, Balboa DID lose the fight, didn't he?
08-15-07, 11:26 PM
#53
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Originally Posted by Ginwen
I'm also wondering how that's debatable. Debatable that the bad guy won, or debatable that he's bad?
Spoiler:
08-16-07, 02:13 PM
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Not to get too far out there, but I'd argue Frankenstein
The Monster was a tragic character, not a bad character. Those who created him, it could be argued, had good intentions but fell victim to their own godlike power to create. Not exactly evil or bad guys, but as well tragic.
When treated kindly and with respect, the Monster returned in kind. That he dies (sort of) in the end should fall into the guidelines of the question.
Not all films have a clearly defined bad guy, and I think films with more levels to characterization are far more interesting.
Someone mentioned Talented Mr Ripley in the first post.
This is a great example. What makes this film so uncomfortable for some people is the way you feel about the main character. Its not exactly bad. He probably has no concept of his morality anyway. He's a sociopath in the classic sense, and reacts to every situation with a moments thought. He never sets out with truely bad intentions but moves forward in a way to best suits himself. This is one of my favorite films.
Surely good people are hurt in this film, and Tom certainly wins in the end.
The Monster was a tragic character, not a bad character. Those who created him, it could be argued, had good intentions but fell victim to their own godlike power to create. Not exactly evil or bad guys, but as well tragic.
When treated kindly and with respect, the Monster returned in kind. That he dies (sort of) in the end should fall into the guidelines of the question.
Not all films have a clearly defined bad guy, and I think films with more levels to characterization are far more interesting.
Someone mentioned Talented Mr Ripley in the first post.
This is a great example. What makes this film so uncomfortable for some people is the way you feel about the main character. Its not exactly bad. He probably has no concept of his morality anyway. He's a sociopath in the classic sense, and reacts to every situation with a moments thought. He never sets out with truely bad intentions but moves forward in a way to best suits himself. This is one of my favorite films.
Surely good people are hurt in this film, and Tom certainly wins in the end.
Last edited by FaustBos; 08-16-07 at 02:21 PM. Reason: fix spelling
08-16-07, 03:34 PM
#62
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Originally Posted by MScottM
Can't believe no one mentioned "No Way Out" with Kevin Costner. The first time I saw it, the ending really suprised me.
08-16-07, 05:29 PM
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Originally Posted by MScottM
Can't believe no one mentioned "No Way Out" with Kevin Costner. The first time I saw it, the ending really suprised me.
Will check it out
08-16-07, 08:37 PM
#65
DVD Talk Limited Edition
Originally Posted by RichC2
The Passion of the Christ
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08-17-07, 03:35 AM
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Originally Posted by inri222
Irreversible
Psycho
The Wicker Man
Chinatown
Wild Things
Match Point
Blair Witch Project
Valentine
Harder to find an old film where the bad guys win, it would have broken the Hayes Code.
08-17-07, 03:14 PM
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Originally Posted by GeorgeP
Er...that wasn't the bad guy.
I remember the guy that was with him smirking, I don't remember whether it was the Tenia or not. I won't watch it again to check either, the film was total shit from start to finish. Now that I look back I think you are right.
08-17-07, 05:03 PM
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Originally Posted by SmartisSexy
Wild Things
Harder to find an old film where the bad guys win, it would have broken the Hayes Code.
I would say the two most likable characters end up with the money while I would say the bad guys would prob. be bacon, richards, & dillon.
08-18-07, 09:49 PM
#70
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Primal Fear...
and just remembered The Last Seduction too.
and just remembered The Last Seduction too.
08-19-07, 04:52 AM
#71
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Originally Posted by Brain Stew
Debatable about whether or not Michael really "won."
Spoiler:
Spoiler:
08-19-07, 06:25 AM
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In "Curse of the Golden Flower", I definitely wouldn't have described the emperor as the villain
Arlington Road (already mentioned) was a great one though.
Spoiler:
Arlington Road (already mentioned) was a great one though.
03-15-11, 05:30 AM
#74
DVD Talk Hall of Fame
Re: Movies where the bad guy wins?
Every time I watch Heat I pray that somehow Deniro will win and inevitably I am always disappointed. I have somehow convinced myself that the ending will change someday.
03-15-11, 06:11 AM
#75
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Re: Movies where the bad guy wins?
Someone mentioned it earlier, but Fallen definitely comes to mind. I've always felt that movie was very under-appreciated.
In The Bad News Bears and Rocky the bad guys won, but it wasn't a loss for the good guys in the traditional sense.
Phone Booth also comes to mind, at least insofar as the bad guy got away in the end.
Ozymandias won in Watchmen.
Hitler living through the assassination attempt in Valkyrie would probably also classify as the bad guy winning.
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I definitely think people are confusing movies where the bad guy actually wins with movies where the good guy dies for a cause.
Yes, Dan died in the end, but he accomplished what he set out to and upheld justice. His death was, arguably then, a victory.
Again, Neville dies, but he does so to save society. The bad guy (the virus, the infected) might have beaten him, but they didn't win.
Antonius, etc. succumbed to Death in the end, so I guess you could say Death won. But really, Antonius allowed of and his family to escape Death, so Death lost in the end.
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One could argue that the media, represented by Wayne Gale, is actually the bad guy and the good guys (Mickey and Mallory) won in the end.
In The Bad News Bears and Rocky the bad guys won, but it wasn't a loss for the good guys in the traditional sense.
Phone Booth also comes to mind, at least insofar as the bad guy got away in the end.
Ozymandias won in Watchmen.
Hitler living through the assassination attempt in Valkyrie would probably also classify as the bad guy winning.
---
I definitely think people are confusing movies where the bad guy actually wins with movies where the good guy dies for a cause.
Yes, Dan died in the end, but he accomplished what he set out to and upheld justice. His death was, arguably then, a victory.
Again, Neville dies, but he does so to save society. The bad guy (the virus, the infected) might have beaten him, but they didn't win.
Antonius, etc. succumbed to Death in the end, so I guess you could say Death won. But really, Antonius allowed of and his family to escape Death, so Death lost in the end.
---
One could argue that the media, represented by Wayne Gale, is actually the bad guy and the good guys (Mickey and Mallory) won in the end.
Last edited by kstublen; 03-15-11 at 06:20 AM.