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RocShemp 07-26-12 11:23 AM

Re: The Hobbit
 

Originally Posted by Sean O'Hara (Post 11323291)
You know, in the original version of the Hobbit published in 1937, Gollum was actually a nice guy who happily showed Bilbo the way out of the mountain after losing the riddle game?

In case Abob Teff thinks otherwise, that is not a joke.


In December 1937, The Hobbit's publisher, Stanley Unwin, asked Tolkien for a sequel. In response Tolkien provided drafts for The Silmarillion, but the editors rejected them, believing that the public wanted "more about hobbits". Tolkien subsequently began work on The New Hobbit, which would eventually become The Lord of the Rings, a course that would not only change the context of the original story, but lead to substantial changes to the character of Gollum.

In the first edition of The Hobbit, Gollum willingly bets his magic ring on the outcome of the riddle-game, and he and Bilbo part amicably. In the second edition edits, to reflect the new concept of the ring and its corrupting abilities, Tolkien made Gollum more aggressive towards Bilbo and distraught at losing the ring. The encounter ends with Gollum's curse, "Thief! Thief, Baggins! We hates it, we hates it, we hates it forever!" This presages Gollum's portrayal in The Lord of the Rings.

Tolkien sent this revised version of the chapter "Riddles in the Dark" to Unwin as an example of the kinds of changes needed to bring the book into conformity with The Lord of the Rings, but he heard nothing back for years. When he was sent galley proofs of a new edition, Tolkien was surprised to find the sample text had been incorporated. In The Lord of the Rings, the original version of the riddle game is explained as a "lie" made up by Bilbo under the harmful influence of the Ring, whereas the revised version contains the "true" account. The revised text became the second edition, published in 1951 in both the UK and the US.

Tolkien began a new version in 1960, attempting to adjust the tone of The Hobbit to its sequel. He abandoned the new revision at chapter three after he received criticism that it "just wasn't The Hobbit", implying it had lost much of its light-hearted tone and quick pace.

After an unauthorized paperback edition of The Lord of the Rings appeared from Ace Books in 1965, Houghton Mifflin and Ballantine asked Tolkien to refresh the text of The Hobbit to renew the US copyright. This text became the 1966 third edition. Tolkien took the opportunity to align the narrative even more closely to The Lord of the Rings and to cosmological developments from his still unpublished Quenta Silmarillion as it stood at that time. These small edits included, for example, changing the phrase "elves that are now called Gnomes" from the first and second editions on page 63, to "High Elves of the West, my kin" in the third edition. Tolkien had used "gnome" in his earlier writing to refer to the second kindred of the High Elves—the Noldor (or "Deep Elves")—thinking "gnome", derived from the Greek gnosis (knowledge), was a good name for the wisest of the elves. However, because of its common denotation of a garden gnome, derived from the 16th-century Paracelsus, Tolkien abandoned the term.

I've always wanted to read the original pages but the only editions I've ever read of The Hobbit were the revised ones.

whoopdido 07-26-12 12:37 PM

Re: The Hobbit
 

Originally Posted by superdeluxe (Post 11323253)
You can get that much from the appendixes and the Hobbit?

He'd definitely have to incorporate The Silmarillion to even get close to enough content.

Sean O'Hara 07-26-12 01:22 PM

Re: The Hobbit
 

Originally Posted by RocShemp (Post 11323393)
I've always wanted to read the original pages but the only editions I've ever read of The Hobbit were the revised ones.

The Annotated Hobbit contains the original version of Riddles in the Dark.

Jay G. 07-26-12 02:29 PM

Re: The Hobbit
 
Christopher Tolkien give his reaction to the films:
http://www.examiner.com/article/chri...paper-le-monde

Analysis of three early attempts at adapting LTOR, with further quotes from J.R.R. Tolkien on the Zimmerman draft:
http://ou.academia.edu/JanetCroft/Pa...man_and_Beagle


A 1966 12-minute short film adaptation of The Hobbit, ostensibly made to retain film rights:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UBnVL1Y2src

More info:
http://genedeitchcredits.com/roll-th...liam-l-snyder/

Josh-da-man 07-26-12 02:30 PM

Re: The Hobbit
 

Originally Posted by milo bloom (Post 11323229)
I'd say Lucas took more from Frank Herbert's Dune, than LOTR. Also a hefty helping of Flash Gordon.

You can see a lot of pieces of LOTR in the original Star Wars movie. Luke is like Frodo, leaving his lifelong home with an old wizard for a great quest. Meets up with a potential ne'er do-well at a tavern. The old wizard sacrifices himself to a dark monster so the rest of his fellowship can get away. Darth Vader is a lot like the Nazgul, a fallen man, heavy-breathing and cloaked in black, who does the bidding of an unseen evil.

whoopdido 07-26-12 02:46 PM

Re: The Hobbit
 

Originally Posted by Jay G. (Post 11323684)
Christopher Tolkien give his reaction to the films:
http://www.examiner.com/article/chri...paper-le-monde

Analysis of three early attempts at adapting LTOR, with further quotes from J.R.R. Tolkien on the Zimmerman draft:
http://ou.academia.edu/JanetCroft/Pa...man_and_Beagle


A 1966 12-minute short film adaptation of The Hobbit, ostensibly made to retain film rights:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UBnVL1Y2src

More info:
http://genedeitchcredits.com/roll-th...liam-l-snyder/

Slag?

superdeluxe 07-27-12 08:22 AM

Re: The Hobbit
 
The staff at the one ring net give their thoughts on the footage at comic con, obvious spoilers, but it is safe to say that they loved what they saw:

http://www.theonering.net/torwp/2012...bbit-showreel/

covenant 07-27-12 08:54 AM

Re: The Hobbit
 
Christopher Tolkien:

They gutted the book, making an action movie for 15-25 year olds. And it seems that The Hobbit will be of the same ilk. Tolkien became...devoured by his popularity and absorbed by the absurdity of the time. The gap widened between the beauty, the seriousness of the work, and what it has become is beyond me. This level of marketing reduces to nothing the aesthetic and philosophical significance of this work.
Pretty much what I'd expect an 88 year old would say.

RocShemp 07-27-12 09:44 AM

Re: The Hobbit
 

Originally Posted by covenant (Post 11324836)
Christopher Tolkien:


Pretty much what I'd expect an 88 year old would say.

It's funny that the books are more violent than the movies (for instance, Legolas and Gimli had an Orc beheading competition in the books) and jackson even cut out an action sequence from the book in favor of more character development with Gimli in FOTR.

TGM 07-27-12 09:47 AM

Re: The Hobbit
 
Hey Chris, stop living off your old man's work and do something worthwhile on your own.

covenant 07-27-12 09:56 AM

Re: The Hobbit
 

Originally Posted by RocShemp (Post 11324903)
Gimpli had an Orce

http://a2.twimg.com/profile_images/1...ably_small.png

whoopdido 07-27-12 10:57 AM

Re: The Hobbit
 
I'd like to take a baseball bat to that old man's hip. He sounds like every stereotypical old man in the world. Just a bitter, grumpy, mean old man.

pinata242 07-27-12 11:21 AM

Re: The Hobbit
 
And irrelevant. Who cares?

Kmical 07-27-12 11:26 AM

Re: The Hobbit
 

Originally Posted by RocShemp (Post 11324903)
Gimpli

Is that what they called him after he took an arrow to his knee?

majorjoe23 07-27-12 12:39 PM

Re: The Hobbit
 

Originally Posted by whoopdido (Post 11325002)
I'd like to take a baseball bat to that old man's hip. He sounds like every stereotypical old man in the world. Just a bitter, grumpy, mean old man.

Sounds worthy of a crippling. My grandfather with a pacemaker didn't like The Dark Knight, so I microwaved a burrito while he was still in the kitchen!

xraybies 07-27-12 01:35 PM

Re: The Hobbit
 

Originally Posted by Josh-da-man (Post 11323687)
You can see a lot of pieces of LOTR in the original Star Wars movie. Luke is like Frodo, leaving his lifelong home with an old wizard for a great quest. Meets up with a potential ne'er do-well at a tavern. The old wizard sacrifices himself to a dark monster so the rest of his fellowship can get away. Darth Vader is a lot like the Nazgul, a fallen man, heavy-breathing and cloaked in black, who does the bidding of an unseen evil.

http://i.imgur.com/4EH7e.jpg

MoviePage 07-28-12 07:29 AM

Re: The Hobbit
 

Originally Posted by Solid Snake PAC (Post 11322427)
Alright. I know the estate doesn't like the Jackson films being made from the works but....why? They do just not honestly like them or cuz they're not getting paid? Or what?

I'm not saying they're right or wrong, but they're very protective of the stories as important works of literature. These are very old-school, uptight, upper-class British people we're talking about here. I'd imagine they've never willingly seen a movie that contains CGI in their lives. It'd be like expecting the head of the Royal Shakespeare Academy to be a big fan of the Baz Luhrmann "Romeo + Juliet" film.

And to be fair to Christopher Tolkien's point of view, the book is much deeper than the films. It holds a depth and power for lovers of language and literature that the film adaptations simply don't, and probably can't, touch. They really did "gut the book" in many ways to make a movie out of it. They had to boil it down to its essence as a story, which is only one aspect of what the book is doing. That's not necessarily a bad thing though, and it's not to say the movies aren't good. Just very different in many ways from the source material (perhaps out of necessity). It takes some open-mindedness to appreciate both for what they are.

Solid Snake 07-28-12 03:57 PM

Re: The Hobbit
 
Gimpli. Lol.

milo bloom 07-29-12 01:13 PM

Re: The Hobbit
 

Originally Posted by Jay G. (Post 11323684)
Christopher Tolkien give his reaction to the films:
http://www.examiner.com/article/chri...paper-le-monde

Analysis of three early attempts at adapting LTOR, with further quotes from J.R.R. Tolkien on the Zimmerman draft:
http://ou.academia.edu/JanetCroft/Pa...man_and_Beagle


A 1966 12-minute short film adaptation of The Hobbit, ostensibly made to retain film rights:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UBnVL1Y2src

More info:
http://genedeitchcredits.com/roll-th...liam-l-snyder/

Ok, plenty of inaccuracies but honestly not a bad little film. I almost wouldn't mind seeing the LOTR story done the same way.

resinrats 07-30-12 12:04 AM

Re: The Hobbit
 
Seems Tolkien's family would like the films since it introduces a larger audience to the story then would otherwise discover it. I'm sure there are people that never read the book until they saw the movies & then decided to read it. I know I would never read the books otherwise. Of course, I still haven't read them but did consider it for a second.

milo bloom 07-30-12 09:41 AM

Re: The Hobbit
 

Originally Posted by resinrats (Post 11327886)
Seems Tolkien's family would like the films since it introduces a larger audience to the story then would otherwise discover it. I'm sure there are people that never read the book until they saw the movies & then decided to read it. I know I would never read the books otherwise. Of course, I still haven't read them but did consider it for a second.

There are a lot of authors that seriously do not feel that way. And the books were plenty popular on their own for years before Jackson's movies came out. Why do you think there was such a demand? People grew up reading these and reading them to their kids, and they wanted to see movies made, that's why they were blockbuster films and that's why The Hobbit has such buzz.

RocShemp 07-30-12 09:50 AM

Re: The Hobbit
 

Originally Posted by covenant (Post 11324918)


Originally Posted by Kmical (Post 11325038)
Is that what they called him after he took an arrow to his knee?


Originally Posted by Solid Snake PAC (Post 11326364)
Gimpli. Lol.

Shit. I didn't notice that typo. :blush:

pinata242 07-30-12 11:04 AM

Re: The Hobbit
 
https://www.facebook.com/notes/peter...51114596546558


It is only at the end of a shoot that you finally get the chance to sit down and have a look at the film you have made. Recently Fran, Phil and I did just this when we watched for the first time an early cut of the first movie - and a large chunk of the second. We were really pleased with the way the story was coming together, in particular, the strength of the characters and the cast who have brought them to life. All of which gave rise to a simple question: do we take this chance to tell more of the tale? And the answer from our perspective as the filmmakers, and as fans, was an unreserved ‘yes.'

We know how much of the story of Bilbo Baggins, the Wizard Gandalf, the Dwarves of Erebor, the rise of the Necromancer, and the Battle of Dol Guldur will remain untold if we do not take this chance. The richness of the story of The Hobbit, as well as some of the related material in the appendices of The Lord of the Rings, allows us to tell the full story of the adventures of Bilbo Baggins and the part he played in the sometimes dangerous, but at all times exciting, history of Middle-earth.

So, without further ado and on behalf of New Line Cinema, Warner Bros. Pictures, Metro-Goldwyn-Mayer, Wingnut Films, and the entire cast and crew of “The Hobbit” films, I’d like to announce that two films will become three.

It has been an unexpected journey indeed, and in the words of Professor Tolkien himself, "a tale that grew in the telling."

Cheers,

Peter J

Jay G. 07-30-12 11:27 AM

Re: The Hobbit
 
Wow. So does this mean the first film will be changed at all, or are they adding the new footage mainly to 2 and 3?

Groucho 07-30-12 11:29 AM

Re: The Hobbit
 
First film's conclusion will be the singing of "That's What Bilbo Baggins Hates".


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