"the plot might have worked better as an episode of 24"

I'm kind of torn. On one hand, I thought the plot was weak and Willis was really playing McClane light... he just didn't have the BALLS he had in the other film, but then on the other hand, I had a fucking blast watching this movie.

Justin Long was great as the comic relief, the action set pieces were really well done and exciting. Only when someone was killed and we didn't get the blowback's we've been accustomed to in this series did I feel the action had been neutered, but other than that, the action is pretty hardcore. The lack of swearing was really felt though, especially having just watched the first three movies this week... McClane swears like a sailor and here 'Jerkoff' is thrown around so many times it made me pissed off...that and a few scenes had bad ADR or would cut away for the swearing, where they clearly cut out some 'fucks' (the worst ADR scene by far being after the gas explosion, the exchange between Willis and Long...really really disjointed).

I liked Maggie Q, and I thought Olyphant did a decent job as the villain. I wanted to hate it, but I really didn't. It was just a fun, mindless action flick and a bit of a relief....however, I totally believe that had they gone balls out for the R, this would feel more like DIE HARD, than just a really decent summer action flick.

Just saw it and thought it was fantastic. PG-13 didn't ruin anything, I actually thought there was quite a bit of swearing for a PG-13 movie, and probably the most bullets fired in a movie in a long time. The plot was actually very good, with a bit of cliche tossed in at the end, but what can you expect from an action movie? Overall, a solid 4/5 as far as great action movies go...can't wait to watch it again!

It'll be close, but my money is on "Ratatouille" being the number one movie this weekend.

I really disliked the main villian, the seemingly constant stream of bad edits used to (what I assume) cover either violence of swearing, the odd fact that people (other than JM) don't seem to bleed, JM's unexplained "cleaning up" of his life (seems to have given up the alcohol and smoking and swearing and such), the sheer ridiculousness of far too many occurances (some water knocking someone out of a helicopter? Bad guy and JM being about 40 feet apart in a fairly clear line of sight and just assuming each other have died), anything dealing with traffic (so a light turns green, and every driver on the road immediately, without looking, floors their vehicle, accelerates from 0-40 in 10 feet, and slams into everything in sight. Or, in the tunnel, not caring that the lights are out or that there are crashes everywhere, deciding to just keep on driving like maniacs instead of stopping), and the constant contradiction of events taking place (We've knocked out the infrastructure!... except for when we need to use them. The roads are fully blocked!... unless JM needs to get somewhere).

I did enjoy the True Lies rehashed (kind of) Trailer vs Aircraft scene, the Jurassic Park (heck, Lost World, too) rehashed SUV in the elevator scene, and quite a bit of (surprisingly) the daughter stuff, though. If it weren't a Die Hard movie, some of the stuff above wouldn't apply, but most of it would. Overall, I was quite disappointed .

So they are only showing it one time a day in one theater?

That's what pissed me off the most was how poor the editing was when it came to the language, and I hope some gore is restored to the action if there will be an unrated dvd.

And let's not forget Lucy's use of Generro and McClane that was reminiscent of Holly in DH1.

And my favorite: "Agent Johnson?"


I was a little disappointed that nobody in the film recognized McClane. No mention of Nakatomi, Dulles, or New York.

Some of the action scenes were completely absurd and it was probably too long. But in the end, I had a blast - lots of great one-liners, endless action, and an enthusiastic audience all made this an extremely entertaining experience.

It's a fantastic piece of popcorn filmmaking, in my opinion, and the most enjoyable mainstream movies I've seen this summer.

God damn people, there is a lot of bitching and whining about what is believable and what isn't in this movie. Shit man it's a movie, its a DIE HARD MOVIE! What did you think you were going to see when you went into this movie? When was the last time you saw Bruce Willis in a serious, thought provoking, dramatic Oscar worthy role, not in a LONG time. This is a leave your brain at the door action movie. It's a summer popcorn movie, it mindless action, thats what they were going for, and thats what they accomplished. Some of you saying "this and that wasn't believable" "if everything wasn't working, why was OnStar working" blah blah, I mean Jesus did you realize what type of movie you were seeing? You people should be used to seeing this type of thing, can you really jump off the top of a building with nothing but a fire hose wrapped around you and crash through the building? How about the grenade shit in Die Hard 2, fight on the wing of a plane, the gas blowing up the plane. How about the truck surfing in Die Hard With A Vengeance? It's a movie, mindless action.

Well said, this franchise has to evolve somehow, ya McClane had this cool and calm demeanor, but hey he is used to this shit. So what Willis is getting paid, the role of McClane was evolved well and Willis played it perfectly.

I went into this movie knowing what I was getting into, mindless Die Hard action. And I absolutely loved it! The story wasn't the strongest, but you know what, they did a damn good job with the material they had. I mean really, what could you have done bad guy wise that hasn't already been done, I mean come on you aren't going to top Rickman. What, are you going to have some recycled middle eastern terrorist guys? How about some drug dealers? Oh boy that hasn't been done before. This is the modern age, the age of computers, the plot fit, and worked well.

I thought Long played his role perfectly, it wasn't the generic sidekick role, the dude was believable in his role, being scared of what was going on, him getting a little freaked out in the police office when everything was chaos, asthma acting up, dude was freaked. He said he couldn't work with a gun to his head, he fell down the hole where the server coolers were, he was yelling for McClane every time. Ya he isn't the best actor in the world, but he played the role damn well. He wasn't some macho guy ready to step into action and blow people up 5 minutes into the film, shit he didn't even get the courage to step up until the end. He played his role well.



Still angry about the rating are ya? Well you obviously haven't got over it, and drug that negative element into the movie with you. It was PG-13, deal with it. i don't agree, but I am dealing. PG-13 took NOTHING away from this movie except a little swearing, and less squibs being used. The overdubbing and quick cutting was minimal, you are blowing it way out of proportion. I mean shit did you go there to enjoy a movie, or watch the damn editing and what they were mouthing.

Who cares? So he has a little "who cares" "I'm cocky" type attitude the character needs to evolve. What you want the same type of character in every movie? His character has developed and evolved. Crazy stunts in this movie, are you freaking kidding me? Have you seen the other Die Hard movies? I mean shit look at DH2, fighting on the wing of a plane taking off, blowing it up with a stream of gas, that shit is just as crazy. And his laughs at the end were not forced, I think Willis had such a fun time doing this movie/role that thats what has happened, he was enjoying the movie, and hey getting paid too.



He wasn't trying to be menacing, that was his character. Once again you are carrying around the stigma from the other DH movies, this franchise is EVOLVING. Rickman, yes menacing, Irons, ya somewhat, but Olyphant's character was different, a smart, cool collective guy, a Lex Luthor type smarts-business savvy type guy.... I mean shit he used to work for the NSA/FBI as a master computer software developer, his character isn't menacing, I mean shit, most of the point of his character was to prove a point to the world on how unsafe our network is, and prove he was right. He isn't a killer, his pride was bruised, and he was pissed because his reputation got ruined because the government didn't listen to him. It wasn't till late in the movie that him "getting paid" was part of the deal. He wanted to prove a point to the world, and he did, that was his character.

Ohh man the plot holes argument again, he we go, you did realize you went to see a mindless action movie right? A summer popcorn, leave your brain at the door movie right? People drag up these plot hole issues in every single action movie thinking they have a valid argument, you know what, every movie has plot holes, every one to some extent, it seems like action movies get the blunt of them. Once again it's a Die Hard movie. It was a big time summer action movie, and they went big and bold to make it stand out. hey they blew up bridges with a plane in True Lies to stop a car, who cares.


Why the hell would a new director to a franchise want to copy other movie intros/ends directed by other directors? I mean shit, if you had the chance to direct a movie, would you want to copy somebody else's work, or do something that was a little more you, add your little flare to the movie. Wiseman took over LFODH and added his own flare to it, he didn't use the into used in other movies, he didn't use the end like McTiernan did, he used what HE wanted to do, which is fine by me.

The movie as it is, is phenomenal! I have said it before, it's mindless action, you have to go in there knowing that. My theater was packed, people were laughing, having a great time, and ohhh'ing and ahhhh'ing at the movie. Leave your brain at the door, sit back and just enjoy. Fuck the plot holes, screw the alleged quick cuts and overdubbing. I feel this is the best film of the franchise. Ya I said it, the BEST of the franchise. The action by far topped any of the other previous DH movies, and Wiseman did a better job directing than Renny Harlin ever will, and his directing is a notch above McTiernan in terms of the DH franchise.

As it is, Live Free Or Die Hard, a solid A
**** 1/2 stars.

The plot didn't make sense? Really, did you watch the movie? How can you miss this? Ok so you don't get Memento, thats cool neither did I the first time out, it's a complex story. But this is as straight foreword as you can get with an action movie.
Olyphant used to work for the NSA/FBI as a master computer software developer, he did all of this to prove a point to the world on how unsafe our network is, and prove he was right about our network being vulnerable to attack. His pride was bruised when they didn't listen, and he was pissed because his reputation got ruined because the government didn't listen to him. So he went foreword with this plan to prove his point. Thats it, and to make a little money doing so. Simple to me.

Wow, I must be more tired than I thought, since I'm not entirely sure why I wrote that first line. The plot did indeed make sense to me, and I agree that it was a fairly straightforward one. And I like "Memento", especially after repeat viewings, but I guess that's neither here nor there.

And I think I'm going to go to bed now before I feel even dumber.

Random Thoughts about Live Free or Die Hard (a.k.a. Die Hard 4: Dead on Arrival)

my likes:

Bruce Willis
The first three Die Hard installments
American action genre films made between 1982 and 1991
The profanity-laced dialogue of Steven E. de Souza (Commando, Die Hard 1 + 2) and Shane Black (Lethal Weapon 1, The Last Boy Scout)

my dislikes:

MTV-style editing rhythms
High-gloss movies that play like 2 hour commercials
Directors who dabble within genres they know nothing about
Weak installments in popular franchises
Creating one fan base (adults) and catering to another (teens) a.k.a. bait and switch

Random Trivia: As a pre-teen, I once watched Die Hard 2: Die Harder thirty times in thirty days.


Preface: These are merely some sketchy thoughts that I have formed regarding the critical value of this particular installment in the Die Hard franchise. For those of you who enjoyed the feature, I couldn't be happier for you. However, there was not one single thing that I personally enjoyed in this particular installment. Here's the breakdown:

The Action: LAME. It features stunts that not only defy logic but also violate the very laws of physics (e.g., a guy jumping out of a helicopter -- sans parachute or any sort of soft-landing device -- that is at least 100 feet above the ground and, after landing, immediately pops up in order to shoot at McClane). If I want my gun, and I turn on the conveyor belt, and the gun comes toward me, and I pick it up and shoot the bad guy before he kills me (a la Die Hard 2), that makes sense and that could happen within the realm of reality. None of the stunts in this particular installment resemble anything close to reality (e.g., all that nonsense towards the denouement of the picture involving the MACK truck and the fighter jet). It goes without saying that most action films are not totally realistic (obviously), but they at least feature some semblance of reality that aids the viewer's suspension of disbelief. This fourth installment features no such semblance.

The Editing: I counted...one one-thousand, two one-thousand. I never got to three. Most of the shots are approximately 2.5 seconds in length. This is both annoying and lame. Len Wiseman is not Tony Scott or Michael Bay. In other words, he does not have the wherewithal, nor the panache, to make a film entirely composed of quick edits and have it play well. There are good, mainstream action films out there that are entirely made up of quick edits (e.g., The Rock). However, Wiseman does not have the skill to make a film featuring the now customary editing rhythms of the 21st century action film.

The Look: It looks like tons of other 21st century, PG-13 action films (glossy, acute color schemes, etc.). The Bourne Supremacy and those of its ilk are definitely in play here. After a decade of PG-13 horror films, it now looks like PG-13 action films are becoming more abundant.

Smoking / Cursing: No smoking at all in this particular installment. McClane smokes, my friends. I'm sorry but he does. No smoking is a deal breaker. Swearing takes the form of "j**koff" and "d**kwad." *sigh* Great, 8th grade antics all over again...In the years following the theatrical releases of the first three Die Hard installments, I have subsequently become an adult and McClane has subsequently become a child in terms of his censored speech in this fourth installment. Disappointing, I must say.

Random Martial Arts: Why do the fourth installments of action genre franchises have to feature a martial arts expert (Lethal Weapon 4 anyone)? Maggie Q is out of her depth in this film. Specifically, she is in the wrong movie. No offense. I wish her well, but please stay out of my Die Hard films. Most people will like her but the "bitch who can kick butt" -- to use the parlance of our times -- has been played out.

Fixed Location: McClane is supposed to be able to move around only within the confines of a fixed location (an office building, an airport, New York city). Here, the man crosses state lines. This violates one of the rules of the Die Hard universe. Thumbs down. The whole point is supposed to be that McClane has no escape, no relief from what's going on around him...he has to stay at the fixed location in question and save the day. When he has the ability to leave the state and go elsewhere for resources, this lowers his "awesomeness" level, if you will.

The Sidekick: Justin Long belongs in Apple computer ads, not in my Die Hard films. He is a tool and a half. Sam Jackson, now that's a sidekick. The guy from Family Matters (that's right, I said it), that's a great sidekick. Long belongs in coming-of-age films like Garden State 2: Garden Harder, not action films with Bruce Willis.

The Villain: One word: boring. It is hard to make hacking look hardcore. This villain is lame and his intro reflects that, which is to say he doesn't even have a "cool" intro...just a nonchalant "hey, here is the villain" shot. Alan Rickman's character intro in part one a la the little black book is cool; Colonel Stewart doing Kata-like moves naked in part two, that's cool and menacing. However, the villain in part four is a goof. The villains in Die Hard films are supposed to be worthy advisories (e.g., Jeremy Irons' character in Die Hard with a Vengeace), not a whiny guy with a chip on his shoulder like the villain in part four.

The Evil Doings: Having a massive computer meltdown doesn't scare me. I am sorry but it doesn't. This is so because if things ever got that bad, there would be very little we could do about it. To be sure, the tag team of Willis and Long could not save us. However, having my wife trapped on an airplane running out of fuel or seeing a large group of people taken hostage in an office building (including my wife) is riveting...that makes me scared. Wow, everything is coming to an end. Who cares...break out your DVDs and enjoy your few remaining days watching the good Die Hard installments (1 through 3).


All and all, Live Free or Die Hard is a mediocre action picture. For those of you who have Commando memorized or can spot the humorous Hudson Hawk reference in The Last Boy Scout, this picture may not be for you. However, for those of you who love sporadic editing, goofy otherworldly action, a limp storyline, and humdrum directing, this picture may be your ticket to fun this summer. Seriously though, if you enjoyed the picture, then I am truly envious. I wanted to like it; hell, I went to the first showing in my area at 11:59pm on Tuesday. However, this installment is simply lame. Now I must excuse myself in order to go watch the original. Happy viewing, everyone. Let's hope the fourth installment in the Rambo franchise is better than this fourth installment in the Die Hard series. The teaser trailer certainly looks very promising. It looks like it will hark back to the days of "real" American action genre films (80s, early 90s). Here's hoping.


"Welcome to the party pal!" Sadly, this time the party features party favors for the tykes. Live Free or Die Hard: 1 1/2 out of 4 stars

I saw the movie tonight. I'm torn. I agree with everyone here about the movie. Is that possible??

I agree with the good points AND all of the reasons people didn't like it. I liked the movie but when you are a die hard die hard fan like me - you should love it.

Maybe the kick-ass unrated dvd will change opinions. If we get it.

I give the movie an A-. I would say it's tied with the second best in the franchise.

I saw the flick.

I think the ADR guy should be shot.

Wow, the ADR is really that bad? I'm almost tempted to go see it to see what all the fuss is about with the ADR.

I guess all the people who say that McClane could never ever stop smoking or never ever stop drinking or never ever feel as if he could be "that guy" when it comes to doing whatever are the ones who liked Die Hard 2 and would prefer to see an endless line of nearly identical sequels...the intrusive, skeptical authority figure, Holly in danger, Thornberg...I mean, who gives a shit if the character quits smoking? Maybe he just didn't have time to smoke. Maybe he was never in reach of a bottle. The entire movie takes place during the course of about 36 hours or so and it's basically go go go right from the start. I just don't see why the movies not being ABSOLUTELY IDENTICAL is a dealbreaker because that's kind of silly. If I wanted to see the original Die Hard again, I'd watch...the original Die Hard!

Anyway I had a blast. I guess we'll see if it holds up again tomorrow as I am going to see it with another fan. The ADR is indeed bad, the space between the second and third act drags a bit and Olyphant looks like he's going to fucking cry whenever John says a one liner to him but other than that it was really entertaining. The PG-13 was less of a factor than I expected...it was pretty hardcore...although I still think they should have just gone with R. Everyone at my screening appeared to be in their 20's or up...

droidguy1119, here are a couple of points that will serve as a retort to the first half of your post (which is quoted above):

1) McClane not smoking cigarettes in the fourth Die Hard installment is akin to James Bond no longer drinking Martinis in the next James Bond film. The action superhero that is John McClane smokes cigarettes. The man has been known to steal cigarettes from the pockets of dead German terrorists. The man used his cigarette lighter to start a fire that brought down a plane filled with terrorists and a certain drug dealer from the country of Valverde. The man smokes. Period. Should he stop smoking? If he was a real person, then yes...health reasons would no doubt be a factor. However, since he is not real, the integral components that makeup his character can be left intact. That is of course unless one wants to make a PG-13 installment that caters to kiddies.

On a lesser note, McClane did in fact have time to smoke during the fourth installment if he was allowed to. When he crosses back over state lines after leaving the Warlock's house, you know, when he tells Justin Long's character his sob story...that is a key moment where he could have lit up. There are other instances too but you get my point. Merely pointing out that the film takes place over a short period of time and, consequently, he simply did not have the time to smoke is not a good reason. Hell, there are previous installments that take place over shorter periods of time wherein he finds time to smoke (e.g., Die Hard 2). In any event, you can see where I stand on this particular issue. Still, I am happy to hear that you enjoyed the picture. I wish that I could say the same...

2) The fans who want McClane to continue smoking do not necessarily lust after repetitive sequels. This is why they not only love Die Hard 2 (which follows the formula of the original very closely), but also Die Hard with a Vengeance (which is a great, albeit slightly different, sequel). Die Hard with a Vengeance changed the form slightly (the action no longer takes place at Christmas time, the story unravels during the day instead of mostly taking place during the dead of night, McClane now has a sidekick physically close to him throughout most of picture, etc.). These fans, including myself, don't mind sequels that tell new stories with a slightly different setting/spin. We simply don't like installments wherein the filmmaker totally loses sight of what the John McClane character is all about. Sadly, this is the case with Live Free or Die Hard. Thanks for taking the time to read my retort. Take care and happy viewing.

P.S. Making a PG-13 Die Hard installment is akin to making an R-rated Star Wars installment in the future. It simply does not make any sense given the franchise's history and makeup, as well the scope and depth of the universe originally created.

Well, it wasn't bad. It was neither as awful as the detractors claim, nor as excellent as the supporters say. First, the good:

Willis was McClane. He's still fucking got it. I loved every minute of him on the screen.

Justin Long. I enjoy him as an actor. He was funny and emotionally involving.

Kevin Smith. Yes, I actually enjoyed Kevin Smith. Sue me.

The chaos scenes in D.C. Those were really well done on a technical and logistical level. That was easily the best filmmaking I've seen from Wiseman.

McClane's daughter: Hot and ballsy. Love it.

The bad:

Olyphant was boring.

Climax was too short and light on action.

McClane was way too invulnerable. Several times people note he needs to see a doctor, and he just keeps on chugging. I know that in the past Die Hard movies he takes a lickin' and keeps on tickin', but by the time we got to the SUV scene with the Asian chick, it was just too much.

The movie was too long. I didn't need the scene with the jet. It wasn't well done and it added no fun action nor anything to the story.

The absurd editing and ADR to avoid swear words. Come on, Fox, you can do better than that.

I just wasn't as involved in this one as I was with the other three. The first two benefited from being in enclosed spaces, which automatically made them more tense. The third was great because it was a race against time with bombs that would maim and kill tons of people, and you saw the stress in McClane's face every time. Here, there was no real rush to stop the bad guy. At one point McClane and Matthew just drive over to West Virginia, looking like they're doing a solid 40 MPH. No sense of pressure.

Overall, I did enjoy it. It's the worst in the series, but still better than a lot of other action movies. It IS a Die Hard film, and thus worth watching because of it. But it feels like far more of a standalone entry than the first three, which seem to be of a piece.

For the time and place that was convenient to me before the 6PM fees kick in, YES!

But you know it would have been funny as hell to hear Anakin say "Fuck You, Obi-Wan!" in Revenge of the Sith instead of "I Hate You!"

When it comes to mindless popcorn flicks and a park your common sense at the door mentality, this rates right up there with Armageddon and ID4. But I have to admit this was a thrillride that didn't disappoint. I noticed a couple bad edits as well but really didn't even notice the movie was PG13 until I started reading this thread.

My biggest compliant?!: the hundred people that think opening their glowing cellphone to text or see who's calling is no less distracting than the ring. Please people, you just paid $20 with popcorn to see a movie, can't the other person wait 2 hours?

I liked it a lot. No real bad guy is a big problem. The PG-13 issue didn't stop me from enjoying it but you could see the lips didn't match the dialogue you were hearing a few times. I don't really get the ratings board of what is acceptable though. You can kill 80 people but you are counting F-words and making sure we don't see breasts. F-words and breasts are going to bring our society down? I just don't understand them at all. I wish they would just take into account overall tone. How does Silence of the Lambs and Almost Famous have the same rating?

Back to the film, Willis is great but I wish they would have less techno speak. No one can compare to Rickman which is what anyone coming into a Die Hard film does. I miss the claustrophobia but I did like some of the nods to the other movies.

What's ADR?

ADR = http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dubbing_(filmmaking)