Batman Forever
06-23-20, 07:21 PM
#151
DVD Talk Legend
Re: Batman Forever
Yeah, there are odd elements to Batman Forever for sure. Like as a kid I thought nothing of O’Donnell as Dick/Robin, but looking at it now it is weird that this grown guy had to be taken in. There should have been a younger actor cast in the role. The thing is though I actually don’t dislike the character as portrayed. Just that element is weird.
Also Kilmer is definitely not a great Bruce Wayne or Batman. Maybe slightly better as Bruce.
The suits I actually don’t mind so much. The nipples are weird yes, but the designs are actually decent. I particularly like the Robin suit.
Tommy Lee Jones as Two-Face isn’t great. Not much to really say about him. It’s a weird performance.
Jim Carrey as Riddler isn’t bad, but yeah he definitely seemed better suited to play The Joker. His looks are okay though (except the weird glittery suit at the end).
Also Kilmer is definitely not a great Bruce Wayne or Batman. Maybe slightly better as Bruce.
The suits I actually don’t mind so much. The nipples are weird yes, but the designs are actually decent. I particularly like the Robin suit.
Tommy Lee Jones as Two-Face isn’t great. Not much to really say about him. It’s a weird performance.
Jim Carrey as Riddler isn’t bad, but yeah he definitely seemed better suited to play The Joker. His looks are okay though (except the weird glittery suit at the end).
06-23-20, 07:36 PM
#152
Re: Batman Forever
I get why they didn't want to get a kid to play Robin. They didn't want it to feel too kiddy. And Tim Drake was portrayed at times as looking pretty close to an adult compared to the laughing young daredevil of the 40s comics. But considering the campy direction they went with, they should have went with a kid. Then the choice of scenery and atmosphere would have made a little more sense.
06-23-20, 07:42 PM
#153
DVD Talk Legend
Re: Batman Forever
I think they could have cast someone who looked at least around seventeen or eighteen and that would have been better. O’Donnell looked like he was in his mid twenties (he probably was at the time too).
06-24-20, 07:16 AM
#154
DVD Talk Legend
Re: Batman Forever
I watched this again last year with the Batman 4 movie pack Blu-ray set and I was bored. BTW the HD transfer was horrible.
I think the only purpose of the movie was to sell toys at McDonalds.
I think the only purpose of the movie was to sell toys at McDonalds.
06-24-20, 08:18 AM
#155
Administrator
Re: Batman Forever
I kind of always figured Chris O'Donnell was supposed to be playing a 16-/17-year old. Obviously he was 25 himself, but with stuff like 90210, that was pretty standard at the time.
06-24-20, 10:42 AM
#156
DVD Talk Legend
Re: Batman Forever
06-24-20, 11:23 AM
#157
Administrator
Re: Batman Forever
Right, I'm just saying it never bothered me, since I was seeing it all the time on TV anyway
06-24-20, 06:44 PM
#158
DVD Talk Legend
Re: Batman Forever
I wonder how Chris O' Donnell got a lead role in Scent of a Woman or any major production when you saw him in this and NCIS LA and realize he is a horrible actor.
Matt Damon said he was in a audtion and Chris was there and Matt lost his script or misplaced it and he said Chris would not let him borrow or look at the script.
Matt Damon said he was in a audtion and Chris was there and Matt lost his script or misplaced it and he said Chris would not let him borrow or look at the script.
06-25-20, 04:00 AM
#159
Re: Batman Forever
I wonder how Chris O' Donnell got a lead role in Scent of a Woman or any major production when you saw him in this and NCIS LA and realize he is a horrible actor.
Matt Damon said he was in a audtion and Chris was there and Matt lost his script or misplaced it and he said Chris would not let him borrow or look at the script.
Matt Damon said he was in a audtion and Chris was there and Matt lost his script or misplaced it and he said Chris would not let him borrow or look at the script.
06-25-20, 05:00 AM
#160
Re: Batman Forever
This thread got bumped on a positive note so I’ll mention what was good about it.
I think it was the opening scene when Batman is stopping criminals from robbing a bank? Saving hostages? I remember it seeming like it was atop a building or something high up. Anyways, what I can remember well was that that part was exciting and the budget and action sequence was really well done. They definitely upped the ante from the previous two films, and the all black suit looked really good.
Also, Nygmas work shop was cool looking.
To Schumacher’s defense he was taking the aesthetics and tone established in Returns and just went forward with it. It didn’t have the Hot Topic gothic-vibe but it was similar in a lot of other aspects.
I think it was the opening scene when Batman is stopping criminals from robbing a bank? Saving hostages? I remember it seeming like it was atop a building or something high up. Anyways, what I can remember well was that that part was exciting and the budget and action sequence was really well done. They definitely upped the ante from the previous two films, and the all black suit looked really good.
Also, Nygmas work shop was cool looking.
To Schumacher’s defense he was taking the aesthetics and tone established in Returns and just went forward with it. It didn’t have the Hot Topic gothic-vibe but it was similar in a lot of other aspects.
Last edited by brayzie; 06-25-20 at 09:00 AM.
06-25-20, 07:13 AM
#161
DVD Talk Limited Edition
Re: Batman Forever
Bumping since last week was the 25th anniversary and Schumacher has passed.
I still love the movie. 89 and Forever are my favorites from the original 4. I was 10 years old when 89 came out and made me a huge fan of Batman and comics in general, and 16 when Forever came out and I feel that carried my love of comics and the characters in to adult hood.
As I stated in the Schumacher thread, revisionist history now lumps Forever in with the failure of Batman & Robin. But in no way was this a failure. Like 89, 95 was the Summer of the Bat again. A crowd pleasing film, after Batman made a cameo in Returns, a killer soundtrack, popular music videos and tons of merchandising. The film gave us more Bruce Wayne as a character than the previous movies did, and I thought Val was great in the role. Still the best lips for the cowl. O'Donnell was great as a hipper Robin, something the character needed for media, and was already experiencing in the comics. And Carey and Jones hamming it up, was a great contrast to Catwoman and Penguin.
It's a shame that the film is no longer recognized for the hit that it was.
So with all that said, who is still a fan?
I still love the movie. 89 and Forever are my favorites from the original 4. I was 10 years old when 89 came out and made me a huge fan of Batman and comics in general, and 16 when Forever came out and I feel that carried my love of comics and the characters in to adult hood.
As I stated in the Schumacher thread, revisionist history now lumps Forever in with the failure of Batman & Robin. But in no way was this a failure. Like 89, 95 was the Summer of the Bat again. A crowd pleasing film, after Batman made a cameo in Returns, a killer soundtrack, popular music videos and tons of merchandising. The film gave us more Bruce Wayne as a character than the previous movies did, and I thought Val was great in the role. Still the best lips for the cowl. O'Donnell was great as a hipper Robin, something the character needed for media, and was already experiencing in the comics. And Carey and Jones hamming it up, was a great contrast to Catwoman and Penguin.
It's a shame that the film is no longer recognized for the hit that it was.
So with all that said, who is still a fan?
I knew five minutes going in that film when Batman and Robin had ice skates appear on the bottom of their boots that this was going to be a train wreck of epic proportions.
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stingermck (06-25-20)
06-25-20, 09:03 AM
#162
Re: Batman Forever
Okay, apparently Schumacher wanted to do a homage to the 60s show and the work of Dick Sprang. And he wanted to cast William Baldwin as Bruce Wayne/Batman. I could see him as Bruce Wayne.
06-25-20, 09:14 AM
#163
DVD Talk Legend
Re: Batman Forever
One thing I do like about this film is the score by Elliot Goldenthal. The Danny Elfman scores are more iconic, but I don’t mind the themes from Batman Forever and even Batman & Robin. I especially kind of like the main Batman theme as something different. It fits the tone of the Schumacher films and is memorable in its own right.
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06-25-20, 12:49 PM
#164
DVD Talk Special Edition
Re: Batman Forever
Akiva Goldsman wrote the script. What the hell? I thought he was supposed To be a good writer.
Okay, apparently Schumacher wanted to do a homage to the 60s show and the work of Dick Sprang. And he wanted to cast William Baldwin as Bruce Wayne/Batman. I could see him as Bruce Wayne.
Okay, apparently Schumacher wanted to do a homage to the 60s show and the work of Dick Sprang. And he wanted to cast William Baldwin as Bruce Wayne/Batman. I could see him as Bruce Wayne.
06-25-20, 05:57 PM
#165
Re: Batman Forever
Batman Forever and Batman & Robin were pretty early in his career so maybe he didn’t have a grasp of what comic book movies could be back then. I would think anybody with some sense would want to move AWAY from the 60s Batman TV show. But if you grew up when that show was actually considered fun and popular, I can see why someone would think it a good idea to do a homage to it.
I remember reading that the producers really reigned Burton I’m in the first film, and I think it was for the best if true. Batman Returns is drastically different from the ‘89 film. The Penguin was riding a mini-Batmobile toy ride which somehow controlled the real Batmobile. Alfred was DJ scratching with CDs.
06-25-20, 06:02 PM
#166
DVD Talk Legend
Re: Batman Forever
I feel like Batman (1989) is a better film because Burton was reigned in. I think he probably made some stylistic choices, but he wasn’t able to go full on crazy like he did in Batman Returns. That probably saves the film to me.
06-25-20, 06:19 PM
#167
Re: Batman Forever
Michelle Pfeiffer as Catwoman made Batman Returns. I only wish it had been made like the first one minus the Penguin.
06-26-20, 09:10 AM
#168
DVD Talk Legend
Re: Batman Forever
Yeah, I think Batman Returns would have been better if it only focused on one villain. Given the choice I’d go with Catwoman only. DeVito’s Penguin is just too grotesque for me and he’s a lot of the reason I don’t like the film as much. Also one villain would probably have helped shift more of the focus on Batman rather than having him be relegated to a co-star pretty much.
06-26-20, 09:35 AM
#169
DVD Talk Hero
Re: Batman Forever
I just rewatched Batman 89 last night (since I put my LEGO Batmobile together and was in a mood) and it still really holds up. Returns is tougher for me as I love Catwoman but detest the Penguin in that movie. I don't own Forever and gave some thought to buying it last night but this thread reminded me of how terrible it actually is. I like Jim Carrey but so much else is just...bad. I even hate the Batmobile in that movie.
It's like someone was driving a car at 65 (Batman 89) and everything was going great. Right where it needed to be. Great mix of comic book and realism. Smooth sailing. Then they bumped it up to 80 (Returns) and things start getting a little rough - not terrible but getting there. People are now riding around in robot penguins. Then they floor it to 100 (Forever) and everyone starts screaming and begging the driver to stop. Everything is now neon for some reason and the Batmobile can't drive under a bridge without tearing off the fin. Then they crack 120 (Batman and Robin) which is when the wheels fly off, the engine explodes and everyone dies a horrible and painful death ("Let's kick some ice").
It's like someone was driving a car at 65 (Batman 89) and everything was going great. Right where it needed to be. Great mix of comic book and realism. Smooth sailing. Then they bumped it up to 80 (Returns) and things start getting a little rough - not terrible but getting there. People are now riding around in robot penguins. Then they floor it to 100 (Forever) and everyone starts screaming and begging the driver to stop. Everything is now neon for some reason and the Batmobile can't drive under a bridge without tearing off the fin. Then they crack 120 (Batman and Robin) which is when the wheels fly off, the engine explodes and everyone dies a horrible and painful death ("Let's kick some ice").
06-26-20, 10:11 AM
#170
DVD Talk Legend & 2021 TOTY Winner
Re: Batman Forever
I remember liking this movie when it came out, but at the time I was a big Jim Carrey fan and not really much of a Batman fan.
I watched it again within the last year and didn't feel like it holds up and I could see where it was leading toward the crap pile that we eventually got with Batman and Robin.
I watched it again within the last year and didn't feel like it holds up and I could see where it was leading toward the crap pile that we eventually got with Batman and Robin.
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07-03-20, 02:40 PM
#171
DVD Talk Legend
Re: Batman Forever
Joel Schumacher's Batman Forever 170 Minute Cut Reportedly Exists
A super-sized version of Joel Schumacher's Batman Forever reportedly exists in the form of a nearly three-hour director's cut. Writer and podcaster Marc Bernardin reported on Fatman Beyondthat he had it on very good authority that a 170-minute cut of the movie exists, but that Warner Bros. has never made a move toward releasing it because they weren't sure whether there was a market for a longer, darker version of a lighthearted, popcorn-movie version of Batman. The film, in which Val Kilmer played Batman while Chris O'Donnell played Robin, Jim Carrey was The Riddler, and Tommy Lee Jones was Two-Face, was a turning point for the character.
When Batman came out in 1989, Tim Burton rebelled against the camp and silliness that most non-comics audiences associated with the character as a result of the wildly popular 1966 Batman TV series. Burton went darker still with Batman Returns, and when Warner Bros. wanted to try something else for the third movie, Schumacher presented a neon-technicolor film, saturated with camp and bringing the spirit of the '60s show to the big screen.
"I have it on pretty good authority that there exists in the Warner Bros. vault a 170-minute cut of Batman Forever," Bernardin told his co-host Kevin Smith. "I think that it went much deeper into his childhood psychosis and his mental blocks and that it was a more serious, darker version of that movie that was one of the first assemblies that Joel filed with the studio and they eventually cut it down because they were like 'it's too dark for kids. We gotta sell these Happy Meals, so maybe let's not invest ourselves in the trauma of childhood murder. We've got Jim Carrey, let him do some s--t."
Smith said that while WB might doubt it, he strongly suspects fans would like to see the extended cut, noting that post-laserdisc and DVD, audiences are smart enough to understand the differences between cuts.
"In a world where Joel Schumacher just passed away, what an interesting, wonderful testimony that would be to his work, to get to see a totally different version of Batman Forever," Smith said.
Rumors of longer, tonally different cuts of both Batman Forever and Batman & Robin have existed for a while, and a #ReleaseTheSchumacherCut hashtag started to circulate on Twitter shortly after HBO Max announced the upcoming release of Zack Snyder's Justice League -- but until this point it had seemed largely speculative and unlikely to have any viability -- especially after Schumacher passed away. Do you think this new revelation changes that? Hit us up in the comments or let me know on Twitter at @russburlingame! And Bernardin says, for anybody who thinks WB should release this version, to tweet #ReleaseThe20000Cut, a reference to a running joke from a previous Fatman Beyond episode.
A super-sized version of Joel Schumacher's Batman Forever reportedly exists in the form of a nearly three-hour director's cut. Writer and podcaster Marc Bernardin reported on Fatman Beyondthat he had it on very good authority that a 170-minute cut of the movie exists, but that Warner Bros. has never made a move toward releasing it because they weren't sure whether there was a market for a longer, darker version of a lighthearted, popcorn-movie version of Batman. The film, in which Val Kilmer played Batman while Chris O'Donnell played Robin, Jim Carrey was The Riddler, and Tommy Lee Jones was Two-Face, was a turning point for the character.
When Batman came out in 1989, Tim Burton rebelled against the camp and silliness that most non-comics audiences associated with the character as a result of the wildly popular 1966 Batman TV series. Burton went darker still with Batman Returns, and when Warner Bros. wanted to try something else for the third movie, Schumacher presented a neon-technicolor film, saturated with camp and bringing the spirit of the '60s show to the big screen.
"I have it on pretty good authority that there exists in the Warner Bros. vault a 170-minute cut of Batman Forever," Bernardin told his co-host Kevin Smith. "I think that it went much deeper into his childhood psychosis and his mental blocks and that it was a more serious, darker version of that movie that was one of the first assemblies that Joel filed with the studio and they eventually cut it down because they were like 'it's too dark for kids. We gotta sell these Happy Meals, so maybe let's not invest ourselves in the trauma of childhood murder. We've got Jim Carrey, let him do some s--t."
Smith said that while WB might doubt it, he strongly suspects fans would like to see the extended cut, noting that post-laserdisc and DVD, audiences are smart enough to understand the differences between cuts.
"In a world where Joel Schumacher just passed away, what an interesting, wonderful testimony that would be to his work, to get to see a totally different version of Batman Forever," Smith said.
Rumors of longer, tonally different cuts of both Batman Forever and Batman & Robin have existed for a while, and a #ReleaseTheSchumacherCut hashtag started to circulate on Twitter shortly after HBO Max announced the upcoming release of Zack Snyder's Justice League -- but until this point it had seemed largely speculative and unlikely to have any viability -- especially after Schumacher passed away. Do you think this new revelation changes that? Hit us up in the comments or let me know on Twitter at @russburlingame! And Bernardin says, for anybody who thinks WB should release this version, to tweet #ReleaseThe20000Cut, a reference to a running joke from a previous Fatman Beyond episode.
I would actually be fairly interested in seeing this. Some of the deleted scenes from Batman Forever are actually pretty interesting. Now that WB has the HBO Max platform if this exists then I say why not release it too? Especially in this time when we aren’t getting a lot of new content.
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Sonny Corinthos (07-03-20)
07-03-20, 07:12 PM
#172
Re: Batman Forever
When Batman came out in 1989, Tim Burton rebelled against the camp and silliness that most non-comics audiences associated with the character as a result of the wildly popular 1966 Batman TV series. Burton went darker still with Batman Returns, and when Warner Bros. wanted to try something else for the third movie, Schumacher presented a neon-technicolor film, saturated with camp and bringing the spirit of the '60s show to the big screen.
Burton didn’t rebel against anything. There was one silly, campy TV Batman more than a decade earlier, and it was obviously an outdated approach that no one wanted by 1989.
And yet, Batman Returns wasn’t necessarily darker than it’s predecessor. He actually went campy with it, and Schumacher just followed suit.
