Star Wars: Episode VI - Return of the Jedi (1983 D: Marquand) S: Hamill, Ford, Fisher, Williams
#226
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re: Star Wars: Episode VI - Return of the Jedi (1983 D: Marquand) S: Hamill, Ford, Fisher, Williams
Just stumbled on this thread. Fascinating. ROTJ was my favorite growing up, and it is still a very good movie, but it has flaws. I don't think those flaws take away significantly and think ROTJ stands up well with SW and ESB.
#227
DVD Talk Hall of Fame
re: Star Wars: Episode VI - Return of the Jedi (1983 D: Marquand) S: Hamill, Ford, Fisher, Williams
So- has anyone else picked up the newest Rinzler book on the Making Of Jedi?
As much as I hate this film (which is enormously and enthusiastically), I was still anticipating this book quite a bit as I was hoping it would shed some insight into the story development during pre-production. While I'm disappointed that we don't get anything at all on the original ideas Lucas had (as previously related by Kurtz) that were completely antithetical to the produced Jedi ( heroic deaths of major characters, bittersweet ending, etc) There is still some good material revealed that shows early on Lucas was attempting to address many of the fundamental complaints I and others have always had with the final screenplay.
Even for me this is going to be a huge dense post, so I'll spoiler it for those few that honestly want to read it.
As much as I hate this film (which is enormously and enthusiastically), I was still anticipating this book quite a bit as I was hoping it would shed some insight into the story development during pre-production. While I'm disappointed that we don't get anything at all on the original ideas Lucas had (as previously related by Kurtz) that were completely antithetical to the produced Jedi ( heroic deaths of major characters, bittersweet ending, etc) There is still some good material revealed that shows early on Lucas was attempting to address many of the fundamental complaints I and others have always had with the final screenplay.
Even for me this is going to be a huge dense post, so I'll spoiler it for those few that honestly want to read it.
Spoiler:
Last edited by Paul_SD; 11-03-13 at 03:09 PM.
#228
Banned by request
re: Star Wars: Episode VI - Return of the Jedi (1983 D: Marquand) S: Hamill, Ford, Fisher, Williams
Paul, thanks for the summation there. That definitely sounds like a much more cohesive and interesting approach than what we got. Not sure I'm going to bother to pick up the book, so your notes are appreciated.
Also, I never noticed Terrell's spirited defense of Lucas in this thread. It makes his posts in the "Disney buys Star Wars" and "Episode VII" threads make much more sense.
Also, I never noticed Terrell's spirited defense of Lucas in this thread. It makes his posts in the "Disney buys Star Wars" and "Episode VII" threads make much more sense.
#230
DVD Talk Hall of Fame
re: Star Wars: Episode VI - Return of the Jedi (1983 D: Marquand) S: Hamill, Ford, Fisher, Williams
You're very welcome!
If I run across any other things that stick out to me I'll mention those. @ $75 msrp($50+ retail) it's not a casual purchase for most people. But this is information I've wanted to know for decades now, so it's worth it to me to finally scratch the itch. There was an opportunity to impart a lot of this same info in the Annotated Screenplays book, but this is the first I'm reading a lot of these more embryonic ideas.
If I run across any other things that stick out to me I'll mention those. @ $75 msrp($50+ retail) it's not a casual purchase for most people. But this is information I've wanted to know for decades now, so it's worth it to me to finally scratch the itch. There was an opportunity to impart a lot of this same info in the Annotated Screenplays book, but this is the first I'm reading a lot of these more embryonic ideas.
#231
Banned by request
re: Star Wars: Episode VI - Return of the Jedi (1983 D: Marquand) S: Hamill, Ford, Fisher, Williams
I have the SW and Empire books already, and they are great.
#232
DVD Talk Legend
re: Star Wars: Episode VI - Return of the Jedi (1983 D: Marquand) S: Hamill, Ford, Fisher, Williams
Hm, not only would that give ROTJ more continuity with TESB, it would also fit better with the Anakin/Vader of the prequels. He was never truly loyal to the Emperor, they were both just using the other for their own goals.
#233
DVD Talk Legend
re: Star Wars: Episode VI - Return of the Jedi (1983 D: Marquand) S: Hamill, Ford, Fisher, Williams
And the main reason I like Jedi the best, is for bad ass Luke. But a slower transition would have been interesting.
#234
DVD Talk Limited Edition
re: Star Wars: Episode VI - Return of the Jedi (1983 D: Marquand) S: Hamill, Ford, Fisher, Williams
I've always liked Jedi the best of the OT. It was the first one I was able to see during its first run. I saw ANH & ESB during rereleases. Was the perfect age also so I've always loved the Ewoks. Never saw Jabba's palace as a bunch of Muppets. It was full of awesome monsters. Best space battle of the series and sill what I compare any other space battles to.
#235
DVD Talk Legend
re: Star Wars: Episode VI - Return of the Jedi (1983 D: Marquand) S: Hamill, Ford, Fisher, Williams
I liked them in their order of release. I still like to consider the 77 film a stand alone and brilliant in it's own right. It should have been left alone after the first film.
The prequels and the new films really hold no interest for me. At All. I tolerate Empire a lot more than Jedi though.
The prequels and the new films really hold no interest for me. At All. I tolerate Empire a lot more than Jedi though.
#236
DVD Talk Hero
re: Star Wars: Episode VI - Return of the Jedi (1983 D: Marquand) S: Hamill, Ford, Fisher, Williams
Return of the Jedi is an absolute masterpiece compared to anything from the Prequel Trilogy. There are so many cool moments in Return of the Jedi. Yes, the Ewoks get annoying but they might as well be Alec Guinness when you compare them to Jar Jar.
#237
DVD Talk Gold Edition
re: Star Wars: Episode VI - Return of the Jedi (1983 D: Marquand) S: Hamill, Ford, Fisher, Williams
Two of the moments that really made me cringe came from watching too much television as a kid, these were big cliches for me.
I had seen Gilligan get caught in a net and subsequently crash to the ground way too many times before it happened to our heroes in Jedi.
Love Boat staging, where a character turns away from the other character and walks to the railing to make some sort of deep reveal/confession happened almost every week, when Luke did this with Vader, a part of me died inside.
I had seen Gilligan get caught in a net and subsequently crash to the ground way too many times before it happened to our heroes in Jedi.
Love Boat staging, where a character turns away from the other character and walks to the railing to make some sort of deep reveal/confession happened almost every week, when Luke did this with Vader, a part of me died inside.
#238
DVD Talk Limited Edition
re: Star Wars: Episode VI - Return of the Jedi (1983 D: Marquand) S: Hamill, Ford, Fisher, Williams
It was an interesting take if Lucas would have stopped after 1977 and the Original Star Wars stood alone like Citizen Kane and Lawrence of Arabia. How the sequels and mostly the prequels have really denegrated the Original because of the various special edition changes, and constant plot point changes to the story over the years.
Many young kids can't appreciate the Original SW the same way our generation did because they are looking at it through the lens of the 6 movies now, and how Lucas & SW fandom has become a punchline nowadays.
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re: Star Wars: Episode VI - Return of the Jedi (1983 D: Marquand) S: Hamill, Ford, Fisher, Williams
I'd still take Revenge Of The Sith over RoTJ. I've never been a huge fan of RoTJ. Such a downgrade from IV and V.
#240
DVD Talk Legend
re: Star Wars: Episode VI - Return of the Jedi (1983 D: Marquand) S: Hamill, Ford, Fisher, Williams
I think the definite difference is that it would feel more like a 'time capsule' piece than the big eternal pop culture dynasty it is now. I was just thinking about this with E.T. recently... it was a HUGE deal in its day, for years the highest grossing film domestically of all time (ignoring inflation adjustment). But when I passed the E.T. attraction at Universal Studios it struck me how it feels like a piece of 80s nostalgia, no longer ingrained in the pop culture public conscious like Star Wars, James Bond, etc.
#241
Banned by request
re: Star Wars: Episode VI - Return of the Jedi (1983 D: Marquand) S: Hamill, Ford, Fisher, Williams
I read an interesting blog a few years ago about 'If Star Wars had no sequels/prequels.'
It was an interesting take if Lucas would have stopped after 1977 and the Original Star Wars stood alone like Citizen Kane and Lawrence of Arabia. How the sequels and mostly the prequels have really denegrated the Original because of the various special edition changes, and constant plot point changes to the story over the years.
Many young kids can't appreciate the Original SW the same way our generation did because they are looking at it through the lens of the 6 movies now, and how Lucas & SW fandom has become a punchline nowadays.
It was an interesting take if Lucas would have stopped after 1977 and the Original Star Wars stood alone like Citizen Kane and Lawrence of Arabia. How the sequels and mostly the prequels have really denegrated the Original because of the various special edition changes, and constant plot point changes to the story over the years.
Many young kids can't appreciate the Original SW the same way our generation did because they are looking at it through the lens of the 6 movies now, and how Lucas & SW fandom has become a punchline nowadays.
I agree. A lot of people say "Ewoks>Jar Jar" but I say Ewan McGregor>Ewoks. I got a really good fan edit of RotS that tightens it up considerably and in that form there's no question that it's a better film than RotJ (I know, unfair because it's not the real cut, but it just highlights how much good stuff there actually is in RotS).
#242
DVD Talk Hero
re: Star Wars: Episode VI - Return of the Jedi (1983 D: Marquand) S: Hamill, Ford, Fisher, Williams
I read an interesting blog a few years ago about 'If Star Wars had no sequels/prequels.'
It was an interesting take if Lucas would have stopped after 1977 and the Original Star Wars stood alone like Citizen Kane and Lawrence of Arabia. How the sequels and mostly the prequels have really denegrated the Original because of the various special edition changes, and constant plot point changes to the story over the years.
Many young kids can't appreciate the Original SW the same way our generation did because they are looking at it through the lens of the 6 movies now, and how Lucas & SW fandom has become a punchline nowadays.
It was an interesting take if Lucas would have stopped after 1977 and the Original Star Wars stood alone like Citizen Kane and Lawrence of Arabia. How the sequels and mostly the prequels have really denegrated the Original because of the various special edition changes, and constant plot point changes to the story over the years.
Many young kids can't appreciate the Original SW the same way our generation did because they are looking at it through the lens of the 6 movies now, and how Lucas & SW fandom has become a punchline nowadays.
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re: Star Wars: Episode VI - Return of the Jedi (1983 D: Marquand) S: Hamill, Ford, Fisher, Williams
I agree. A lot of people say "Ewoks>Jar Jar" but I say Ewan McGregor>Ewoks. I got a really good fan edit of RotS that tightens it up considerably and in that form there's no question that it's a better film than RotJ (I know, unfair because it's not the real cut, but it just highlights how much good stuff there actually is in RotS).
#244
DVD Talk Limited Edition
re: Star Wars: Episode VI - Return of the Jedi (1983 D: Marquand) S: Hamill, Ford, Fisher, Williams
I enjoyed the theatrical version of Jedi well enough when it was released but now that there is a blinking Ewok it has moved up to masterpiece of cinema, IMO.
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re: Star Wars: Episode VI - Return of the Jedi (1983 D: Marquand) S: Hamill, Ford, Fisher, Williams
Plus, I never knew what Vader was thinking when he tossed the Emperor into the reactor shaft. Now that we hear Vader say, "No," I can understand.
#246
DVD Talk Legend
re: Star Wars: Episode VI - Return of the Jedi (1983 D: Marquand) S: Hamill, Ford, Fisher, Williams
I've never considered Return of the Jedi the best film of the Star Wars trilogy but I guess I never really understood the hate for it either. There's some good stuff in it (Jabba's palace scenes, speeder bike chase on Endor, the second duel between Luke and Vader, redemption of Vader). The Ewoks aren't my favorite characters but I honestly never really hated them I guess.
#247
DVD Talk Ultimate Edition
re: Star Wars: Episode VI - Return of the Jedi (1983 D: Marquand) S: Hamill, Ford, Fisher, Williams
I've never considered Return of the Jedi the best film of the Star Wars trilogy but I guess I never really understood the hate for it either. There's some good stuff in it (Jabba's palace scenes, speeder bike chase on Endor, the second duel between Luke and Vader, redemption of Vader). The Ewoks aren't my favorite characters but I honestly never really hated them I guess.
The original Star Wars will always be favorite from 1977.
#248
DVD Talk Limited Edition
re: Star Wars: Episode VI - Return of the Jedi (1983 D: Marquand) S: Hamill, Ford, Fisher, Williams
I've never considered Return of the Jedi the best film of the Star Wars trilogy but I guess I never really understood the hate for it either. There's some good stuff in it (Jabba's palace scenes, speeder bike chase on Endor, the second duel between Luke and Vader, redemption of Vader). The Ewoks aren't my favorite characters but I honestly never really hated them I guess.
The opening scene with Jabba is too long, and too boring IMO until Luke fights the rancor. And frankly, the whole plan to free Han makes no sense, especially when Leia rescues him yet Jabba and his crowd are all hiding behind a curtain? I guess he doesn't like his favorite decoration, because he watched this bounty hunter free Han and did nothing?
When Luke and Co. get to Endor, the movie comes to a complete halt after the Speeder Bike Chase, and doesn't really get good again until the throne room scenes.
I actually think the Ewoks are the least of the problems of ROTJ, as the pacing is terrible compared to Star Wars and Empire. Star Wars and Empire are compelling for all 2 hours, and there just isn't a bad scene in them (IMO), whereas half of ROTJ is great, and the other half is bad.
The Prequels continued that trend, but those movies are about 1/4 great, and 3/4 bad, as they ALL suffer the same pacing problems too.
#249
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re: Star Wars: Episode VI - Return of the Jedi (1983 D: Marquand) S: Hamill, Ford, Fisher, Williams
These SW threads are all the same. Bitching and how "I" would've done it better. It's so predictable.
#250
DVD Talk Legend
re: Star Wars: Episode VI - Return of the Jedi (1983 D: Marquand) S: Hamill, Ford, Fisher, Williams