Why did Alien 3 "Suck"?
 

Way back in early September, I started a thread concerning Alien: Resurrection and now I have a thread concerning Alien 3, a movie that I deem to be highly underrated and perhaps unfairly maligned.

Having recently sat through the Alien Quadrilogy boxed set, I had the chance to see the director's cut of Alien 3 and I must it was a somewhat bigger improvement of a flawed classic that had a highly troubled production.

I thought the cast did a very good job, with supporting actors such as Charles S. Dutton (Dillon), Charles Dance (Dr. Clemens), Brian Glover (Intendent Andrews) and Ralph Brown ("85") being the standouts.

I thought Fincher, then a very young director, did a very good job despite the awful events and studio bickering that reportedly occurred during production.

In a lot of ways, Alien 3 seems better on repeat viewing, is in some ways more thoughtful than Aliens and head and shoulders above Alien: Resurrection.

Of course it was tough shit that Hicks and Newt were so callously killed off before the movie started, but the Alien saga is supposed to be dark gothic horror.

I don't think it sucked at all. Of the four films in the series it's the one I watch most often. I really like everything about it.

I think your question is a bit loaded to begin with. I didn't think it sucked; it was definitely different than the first two films in the series, and compared to the 4th, it is a masterpiece.

One of the reasons I don't like it is, as you mentioned, the premise. It completely invalidates <i>Aliens</i>. I understand why they did it (they wanted Ripley to have no reservations about choosing to die at the end), but I still don't like it. It seems cheap, almost flippant.

I think they could have gotten around that by not having <i>Alien 3</i> take place immediately after <i>Aliens</i>. Ripley and Hicks (probably not married) would be living with Newt as a family, and somehow Ripley gets back in space. Her ship crashes on the planet (which should have remained a monastery), and everyone onboard is killed but her. The ending would have been more tragic if she <i>didn't</i> want to die (knowing that people that loved her were waiting for her return), but knew it was her fate.

So my main problem with it isn't the execution, but the overall premise.

Now, the fourth... that should never have been made. At least, not with Sigourney Weaver.

I like Alien 3. :)

BTW, why did you pick that title for your thread, when it seems clear after reading your post that you don't think the film sucks?

Most sequels will suffer in quality, especially after the bar was set so high with the first two. Alien3 (and 4 for that matter) is a classic example of the studio heads in pursuit of keeping the cash cow alive and making a release date, rather than an investment in developing a vision into a quality film. I don't think the story in 3 brings many new ideas to the franchise (although that has less to do with Fincher than the screenwriters and studio interference). In the end you get a film that's watchable and has moments, but ultimately fails to build upon the success of the previous films.

I don't think Alien 3 sucks now, but I did when I first saw it as did many other people. I think the reason so many dislike is because it basically wasn't the movie they wanted it to be, and let's be honest the approach they took after the major actioneer that was second one wasn't the best for the newfound fans of the series because of Aliens.

Hasn't this been discussed ad nauseam?

It's all Fox's fault. :)

Compared to the first two, Alien3 sucks badly. But it doesn't suck as bad as Alien Ressurection. ;) The main reason they sucked compared to the first two is that the concept of each film paled in comparison to the first two.

I hated <b>Aliens</b>. IMO it's just another in a long line of bloated James Cameron craptapular action films. The third film brought the series back to its suspenseful and dramatic roots, albeit temporarily.

I don't think it sucked. I thought it was god-awful. Conceptually, the setting, the story, acting...The whole kitten kaboodle. The studio is probably most to blame. I'm also no fan of David Fincher's style either. Though Fight Club is pretty good. Still, Alien Resurrection managed to be even worse than 3.

James Cameron should have directed it. Should have taken place on earth too.

:thumbsup:

This topic has been discussed to death already, I've already trashed all the anti-Aliens 3 arguments in other threads, and I hate repeating myself. :)

why don't people do searches anymore??

http://www.dvdtalk.com/forum/showthr...ighlight=alien

My only big problem was the Hicks thing (and to a lesser extent Newt) . If you watch the Alien 3 Special features you see its all Sigourney Weaver and her ego which effected this decision. BTW I like all 4 movies.

It sucks for the same reason THE GODFATHER 3 sucks.
The events in 3 ruin parts 1 & 2 when you watch them.

Because it was written by a committee?
Because they undid anything positive that was done in the second one mainly killing Newt and Hicks. Don't alienate the audience that made the 2nd movie so popular.

That's the biggest complaint I hear from people all time and if that's what they want to believe that's fine. Personally I think they are letting a "flippant" point preventing them from enjoying what really is a decent movie, and what should have been a nice wrap-up to the series. Then again this is one of the movies that "grew" on me. When I first saw I didn't care for it, but the more I watch it the more I like it.

Didn't suck to me; it's my personal favorite of the series and stands out the most in my eyes (maybe b/c of the controversy behind-the-scenes).

I've always thought that 2 was overrated and 3 was underrated. If 3 has a rep for "sucking" it's probably mostly the result of disappointed fans of 2 who were hoping for or expecting something else.

I thought it sucked because I thought the Aliens were coming to Earth! I remember seeing that damn trailer and being all excited about it, then it didn't come true. This was back in the day with little to no Internet, so there was little way for a kid to get info on upcoming movies. Based on the trailer, they implied the aliens were coming to earth. Boy was I disappointed when they landed in a POS planet where everybody looked the same.

I thought the theaterical version sucked, the directors cut is much better. Still the best part of the movie is the dissection of Newt - god thats a heart wrenching scene. And the part that still gives me the chills.

It was waaaaay to dark. I couldn't see half of the film. it was like playing Doom 3 in movie form.

That and the trailer really hyped it up as aliens come to earth and have an all out war. Oh that trailer was so misleading.

This seems like a bullshit excuse to hate the movie. Didn't that teaser come out like a year before the movie was released, and probably before they had a final script? And there were plenty of proper trailers that gave the plot of the movie once it was actually shot.

well, when you're expecting one thing and get another your expectations have built up a picture that no painter can make. How is it any less a reason to dislike a film than say.. you didn't like the way an actor acted in it? Everyone has a reason for likeing or disliking whatever film they happen to like or dislike. You can't really say anyone's reason is bullshit when it directly relates to the film.

Say Wedding crashers made it seem like a slap stick comedy and then what did you get, some cheesy romantic comedy for the majority of it. Not what you expected regardless of whatever random other heads up you had prior to going to the film.

Alien3 was not received by the public because it was too dark and morbid. Too many bad things happen to the characters, and there is no redemption or victory at the end. The first alien was a classic horror movie, and the second was an action blockbuster. The third was a dark tale of desperation, abandonment and betrayal.

Y'know, lots of people hated The Village because the trailers made it looks like a straight up horror flick, and it wasn't. Don't get me wrong, I'm one of the few people on Earth who actually liked the movie, but that's still the number one reason I get when I ask why some one didn't like it.

As for Alien 3, I don't know why everyone hates it just because Hicks and Newt were knocked off before the movie. They've done that before where actors won't/can't come back to do sequels. I just think it isn't well received due to the fact that there's a "3" tacked on the end of the name and so people are already prejudiced against it. Personally, I liked 3. It's 4 I have a problem with.

Well...aside from my thoughts on the Newt/Hicks thing, and the fact that "Alien 3" was yet another "why don't you believe me when i talk about these aliens?" movie....

I can honestly say that the problem with the movie was there was too many hands in the making of it.


As i have said before...

I still don't care for the movie, but the directors cut was an improvment.

But your example doesn't relate directly to the film; it relates to an advance teaser that was created before they even had a script to work with. The Wedding Crashers example (and the Village one as well) isn't the same as what I'm trying to say. With the Wedding Crashers, I could understand if you saw those trailers and went in expecting a slapstick comedy and were ultimately let down because it wasn't; because all of the trailers that told you the story of the movie you were going to see were misleading.

You say you didn't like Alien3 because your expectations were ruined based on a 30 second teaser (with no actual footage included) that came out a year before the film was released, and even with many trailers that came out around the release of the film showing you much information to the contrary, which would have told you that the original teaser was obsolete; this seems like a bullshit reason to say, "well, that movie sucked, because my expectations didn't hold up based on that first teaser."

Why did Alien 3 suck?

1) The recycled plot - An alien picks off people one-by-one until only Ripley is left to face off against it. Sounds a lot like the first Alien flick.

2) Killing off Newt and Hicks - Sure, horror movies do this all the time, but the first two Alien movies are highly regarded as being among the best entries in the horror genre. The third movie should not have pulled a stunt that belongs in a Jason Voorhees or Freddy Krueger sequel. Oh, and the entire last 30 minutes of Aliens was devoted to Ripley's desperate struggle to save Newt. Invalidating that in the first 10 minutes of Alien 3 is unforgivable.

3) The illogical premise - The entire plot is based on an egg in the Sulaco that never could've been laid there in the first place. The Queen Alien's sack was still on LV-426 and it never left the shuttle between the escape from the planet and the docking with the Sulaco. And how exactly did one facehugger manage to impregnate both a dog and Ripley anyway?

4) The lame cast of characters - I'm not saying we needed another string of neverending wiseass remarks ala Hudson, but there wasn't one likable supporting character in Alien 3. They were all rapists and murderers which immediately made the audience predisposed to hating them. Charles Dance was the only remotely sympathetic one and he was knocked off before we ever got a chance to know him.

5) The lousy production value - The sets were too darkly lit, the FX were lame, the dialogue was sometimes impossible to hear, etc.

6) That misleading teaser - Yes, I was well aware that the movie was set on Fiorina whatever-the-hell-number it was before I went to see it, but the worst thing Fox could've done was get me all jazzed about seeing the aliens coming to Earth and wreaking havoc only to turn around and recycle the first movie.

True. I remember reading a review somewhere saying something to the effect that if Ripley didnt care what happens to herself why should we?
This script went through a record amount of rewrites and start overs. No wonder it was such a mess and no wonder Fincher doesnt want to talk about it.

Believe it or not, I don't get to the movies all the time and the Alien3 teaser was the only trailer I saw for the movie. This was back before the days of watching trailers on the computer and my expectation were really high for the movie because I loved Alien and Aliens. So when the Aliens weren't coming to Earth, it it was definitely a let down.

I'll admit that Alien3 gets better with repeated viewings, but its mostly because you have become numb to (1) the openining which eliminated Hicks/Newt and (2) you recognize the prisoners. I had no idea who any of the prisoners were, and Roc was the only one that was given enough to differentiate himself (well, I guess you can count the Doc, but he gets waxed pretty early)..

If you take a look at Alien, damn all the characters are given a chance to make a mark in the movie. Alien3, there was nothing like that. I know the studio chopped the script and the final cut, but still.

Alien3 isucked the first time I saw it, and thats the test I use. Sure its gotten better over the years, but only because of low expecations.

[QUOTE=Doughboy]2) Killing off Newt and Hicks - Sure, horror movies do this all the time, but the first two Alien movies are highly regarded as being among the best entries in the horror genre. The third movie should not have pulled a stunt that belongs in a Jason Voorhees or Freddy Krueger sequel. Oh, and the entire last 30 minutes of Aliens was devoted to Ripley's desperate struggle to save Newt. Invalidating that in the first 10 minutes of Alien 3 is unforgivable.[QUOTE]

:thumbsup:

I've learned to appreciate Alien 3 more after my initial reaction long ago. If Hicks and Newt were killed off later in the movie, i'd be more forgiving. But in the end killing them right away makes it look like they're taking on piss on the previous movie and everything it had going for it

~Jason

I never seen the directors cut so it might be better now but I didn't care for the movie when I saw it. Didn't care about Newt but was sad that Hicks, the terminator guy was killed off. I also thought they were coming to Earth and it was downer when it didn't happen. Kind of like if in Jason vs Freddy, Freddy and Jason never fought. That would have sucked big time.

Then the no guns things really got to me. I wanted them to up the action not bring it down. It could have worked but didn't for me.

I actually liked Alien: Resurrection but not as much as the first two.

Didn't care that Newt and Hicks died. Never had seen the "Earth teaser". Saw "3" in the theatre and enjoyed it. I thought the final half hour was very suspensful.

I like Alien 3 a lot.

A lot of people who don't like it give real nerd answers, like how it took too long for the alien queen to gestate and how killing the Aliens characters invalidates the second film. It's a continuation of the Ripley story and a beautiful one at that. It's not perfect but it's damn good.

Also, the cast has some excellent actors in it, including Charles Dance and Pete Posthelwaite. I know they don't all get a ton to do in the final cut but they add to it. It's a harsh, interesting, brutal film.

I wish Fincher (absolutely one of my favorite directors) would have gotten involved in the box set but I understand that he doesn't feel that he shot enough of what he wanted to even construct a director's cut even if he wanted. I REALLY wish the documentary on the troubles hadn't been edited down by the studio, however. I'd love to see the full story there.

I agree wholeheartedly with all your reasoning here. I actually live all four Alien movies, they each have a distinctive approach and style, largely (in my opinion) based on the crew (director and producers)... there's a Ridley "put some more smoke on it" movie, there's a Cameron "pour on the action!" movie, there's a Fincher "I'm weird/surreal" movie, and there's a JPJ "Make it quirky and over the top" movie.... plus two of the directors used some of their favorite actors in their respective Alien movies :)

I could make this easier and dig up any of dozens of old posts of mine on this topic, but I'll try and do this fresh.

How ANYONE could think this way - what basically amounts to "I want my happy ending to remain happy" - in a film series that becomes all about the loss that surrounds Ripley, is unfathomable.

No matter how hard Ripley tries, no matter how much she struggles, no matter what successes she has, she keeps losing EVERYTHING that ever had any meaning to her. She loses her co-workers and friends in the first film, and just when she thinks she has overcome her situation, she finds (in the second movie) that by defeating the source of her loss, she has inadvertantly caused the loss of her job and her daughter. She's STRONG though. She gets back on her feet, fights back, and goes to redeem herself, to put to rest the haunting emptiness. She finds new companionship, new cameraderie, and even a new surrogate daughter. But the struggle begins anew. She loses her new friends one by one to the very same nemesis. She is DETERMINED at all costs to win this time, though, and goes through hell itself to save Hicks and especially Newt. And she succeeds. And finds time to rest at last, a moment of safety where she can finally let her guard down, secure in the knowledge that she has defied the odds and reclaimed part of a respectable life.

Newt and Hicks die while she is asleep, with her guard down. They are ripped from her at a time when she can't even fight back. It's the ULTIMATE experience of personal loss. And once again, it's the same old nemesis. For every tiny forward step that Ripley fights for and gains, she is shoved painfully back by another loss.

Appalled viewers reduce this to: "Alien3 sucked, I can't believe they killed Hicks and Newt off right from the start!" The end. My response: I can't believe you don't get it.

Oh, and of course, there can be no bigger loss than the loss of one's own life, and Ripley finally accepts that at the end of the movie. It is a graceful and towering concluding moment to a nearly perfect trilogy. This is, of course, why the fourth movie just doesn't work - it carries on in a way that is contrary to the theme of the first three films.

http://i2.photobucket.com/albums/y43...d/clapping.gif


Excellent defense. I love Alien3, LOVE it. I knew from the first few minutes that I would, BECAUSE of the killing off of Newt and Hicks. Immediately shocked you and depressed you and put you in the same mindset as Ripley. An almost perfect opening for a movie.

While I don't think it was the best of the series. I have always disagreed with it "sucking."

Short answer to a dead horse topic... It didn't suck. As for the Newt and Hicks bullshit, I'm tired of hearing that as a reason why the film "sucked". If you didn't like it, so be it, but the Alien films are about RIPLEY, not Newt and Hicks. Get over it.