Back to the Future 2 plot hole?
#51
DVD Talk Legend
Originally Posted by UAIOE
I always thought the biggest plothole was how the time machine managed to stay in the same place on Earth no matter what time of you go to.
If you leave November 1955 and travel to March 2015 the Earth will be be in a different point in it's orbit around the sun.
If you leave November 1955 and travel to March 2015 the Earth will be be in a different point in it's orbit around the sun.
However, almost all time travel movies use the "same place, different time" form of movement. My rationalization is that gravity still works in the 4th dimension. So you actually move physical location while time traveling, but that movement is relative to the Earth's movement since gravity is keeping you stuck to it.
#52
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On a BTTF note, in the first one, Marty comes back to 1985 and rushes to save Doc, jumping over a bum sleeping on a park bench on the way. I just recently realized (I think), that the bum is the same guy who was mayor in 1955.
#53
DVD Talk Hero
Originally Posted by Charlie Goose
On a BTTF note, in the first one, Marty comes back to 1985 and rushes to save Doc, jumping over a bum sleeping on a park bench on the way. I just recently realized (I think), that the bum is the same guy who was mayor in 1955.
#56
DVD Talk Legend
Originally Posted by nickdawgy
It's not.
The same bum is the one Marty runs into when he gets to 1985A.
Bum: Hey! Watch where you're going.. crazy, drunk pedestrian!
Marty: Red!
And not to mention, when Marty gets back to 1985 at the end of BTTF, he hops out of the DeLorean and mentions Red's name (who is sleeping on the bench) when he says everything looks great..
The mayor in 1955 was Red Thomas.. so putting 2+2 together.. the joke being that the Mayor of 1955 turns into a bum down the road.
#58
DVD Talk Godfather
The answers to all your Back to the Future questions:
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#61
DVD Talk Gold Edition
Originally Posted by UAIOE
But i do believe that actual time travel would be far worse than shown in the movies and that a small change in the past would have a much, much larger impact on the future (snowball effect).
I wish someone would do Heinlein's "Door Into Summer. That would be an interesting time travel flick.
#62
DVD Talk Hero
Originally Posted by Jon2
I believe Ray Bradbury's " A Sound of Thunder" is the penultimate time travel story about this concept.
#63
DVD Talk Godfather
Originally Posted by UAIOE
But i do believe that actual time travel would be far worse than shown in the movies and that a small change in the past would have a much, much larger impact on the future (snowball effect).
#65
DVD Talk Gold Edition
Originally Posted by Jay G.
Harlan Ellison wrote a a really short story (like one page) about this once. A scientist builds a time machine and travels in it, only to end up stuck out in space.
Originally Posted by Jay G.
However, almost all time travel movies use the "same place, different time" form of movement. My rationalization is that gravity still works in the 4th dimension. So you actually move physical location while time traveling, but that movement is relative to the Earth's movement since gravity is keeping you stuck to it.
Now I'm confused.
#66
DVD Talk Limited Edition
That still brings up the issue of you arriving at the same place on earth as when you left.
If you travel through space/time what exactly is making sure you end up on *THIS* planet at *THIS* time? If you disrupt space and time what is making sure you don't end up on another planet in another solar system 30 years from now? What stops you from appearing in the middle of a sun? Who else believes this thread is getting too complicated for its own good?
If you travel through space/time what exactly is making sure you end up on *THIS* planet at *THIS* time? If you disrupt space and time what is making sure you don't end up on another planet in another solar system 30 years from now? What stops you from appearing in the middle of a sun? Who else believes this thread is getting too complicated for its own good?
#67
DVD Talk Limited Edition
Originally Posted by Rubix
does primer have any major holes?
It's not like BTTF is a serious time travel movie. The whole Marty-starts-disappearing thing in the first one is ridiculous.
#68
DVD Talk Special Edition
Originally Posted by Michael Corvin
The answers to all your Back to the Future questions:
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#69
DVD Talk Hall of Fame
Hold up.
BTTF I: Mary goes back in time so there is no overlap with himself (except at the end, but that's just review of "before").
BTTF II: If Old Biff goes back in time and changed everything (and assuming everything was changed back before he arrived back) wouldn't he have to arrive before he left to see how changes took effect? Otherwise he's just stepping back into his own shoes? Otherwise his Old self couldn't be the the New Old Self? Rather, if he successfully changed the past how could he come back to the future if his New 1955 Self were to live through the timeline? Wouldn't there be two of him?
Same goes for Marty in 2015 when he first arrives. If he left 1985, who was there for him to grow into? Wouldn't he be missing from the timeline?
BTTF I: Mary goes back in time so there is no overlap with himself (except at the end, but that's just review of "before").
BTTF II: If Old Biff goes back in time and changed everything (and assuming everything was changed back before he arrived back) wouldn't he have to arrive before he left to see how changes took effect? Otherwise he's just stepping back into his own shoes? Otherwise his Old self couldn't be the the New Old Self? Rather, if he successfully changed the past how could he come back to the future if his New 1955 Self were to live through the timeline? Wouldn't there be two of him?
Same goes for Marty in 2015 when he first arrives. If he left 1985, who was there for him to grow into? Wouldn't he be missing from the timeline?
#70
Member
Originally Posted by Superman07
Hold up.
BTTF I: Mary goes back in time so there is no overlap with himself (except at the end, but that's just review of "before").
BTTF II: If Old Biff goes back in time and changed everything (and assuming everything was changed back before he arrived back) wouldn't he have to arrive before he left to see how changes took effect? Otherwise he's just stepping back into his own shoes? Otherwise his Old self couldn't be the the New Old Self? Rather, if he successfully changed the past how could he come back to the future if his New 1955 Self were to live through the timeline? Wouldn't there be two of him?
Same goes for Marty in 2015 when he first arrives. If he left 1985, who was there for him to grow into? Wouldn't he be missing from the timeline?
BTTF I: Mary goes back in time so there is no overlap with himself (except at the end, but that's just review of "before").
BTTF II: If Old Biff goes back in time and changed everything (and assuming everything was changed back before he arrived back) wouldn't he have to arrive before he left to see how changes took effect? Otherwise he's just stepping back into his own shoes? Otherwise his Old self couldn't be the the New Old Self? Rather, if he successfully changed the past how could he come back to the future if his New 1955 Self were to live through the timeline? Wouldn't there be two of him?
Same goes for Marty in 2015 when he first arrives. If he left 1985, who was there for him to grow into? Wouldn't he be missing from the timeline?
as far as Marty in 2015, at that point in time, the future somehow knew Marty was going to go back from the future to live out his days, and old Marty would be there.
#71
DVD Talk Legend
There was an extended scene in BTTF2 which shows what happened when Biff was shot in the mid 90s.
If you notice, when Biff returns the time machine he comes out limping when he breaks off his cane. He in fact had landed in 2015-A, whereas Marty, Doc, and Jennifer were still in 2015. The timeline had already skewed into the tangent, although Doc, Marty, and Jennifer weren't effected by it yet. Biff went back and corrupted the timeline creating the Alternate universe.. in which he got shot by Lorraine sometime around 1995 (this is according to Bob Gale). However, without that being explained the whole scene doesn't make sense. In the final cut of the film, we see Biff land up against a car in pain simply because there is no Biff in 2015-A. This little scene was cut short, and can be seen on the DVD - Biff actually disappears and erases from existence.
However, general audience goers wouldn't have gotten anything that complex without it being totally explained so they cut it to him being in pain for some reason.
Brack is correct about 47 year old Marty being in 2015, though.
If you notice, when Biff returns the time machine he comes out limping when he breaks off his cane. He in fact had landed in 2015-A, whereas Marty, Doc, and Jennifer were still in 2015. The timeline had already skewed into the tangent, although Doc, Marty, and Jennifer weren't effected by it yet. Biff went back and corrupted the timeline creating the Alternate universe.. in which he got shot by Lorraine sometime around 1995 (this is according to Bob Gale). However, without that being explained the whole scene doesn't make sense. In the final cut of the film, we see Biff land up against a car in pain simply because there is no Biff in 2015-A. This little scene was cut short, and can be seen on the DVD - Biff actually disappears and erases from existence.
However, general audience goers wouldn't have gotten anything that complex without it being totally explained so they cut it to him being in pain for some reason.
Brack is correct about 47 year old Marty being in 2015, though.
#72
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The very premise of going BACK in time is flawed, so trying to figure out the paradoxes is futile.
When the Delorean is first introduced, Doc explained how Einstein was able to go FORWARD in time by skipping over sixty seconds instantaneously. But he never explains how one should "scientfically" be able to go BACKWARD in time. It's like explaining that Superman can fly because of Earth's weaker gravity (which still doesn't explain how he can accelerate) and then saying he also has heat vision to accompany it (or something of that nature).
Once the premise is flawed any attempt to explain it is wrongheaded.
When the Delorean is first introduced, Doc explained how Einstein was able to go FORWARD in time by skipping over sixty seconds instantaneously. But he never explains how one should "scientfically" be able to go BACKWARD in time. It's like explaining that Superman can fly because of Earth's weaker gravity (which still doesn't explain how he can accelerate) and then saying he also has heat vision to accompany it (or something of that nature).
Once the premise is flawed any attempt to explain it is wrongheaded.
#73
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Originally Posted by The_Infidel
Marty's girlfriend's Jennifer's mom must have met and married another man, since Jennifer's appearance was totally different by the second movie.
The actress who who played Marty's original girlfriend was far, far cuter. And probably a better actress. (Elizabeth's Shue overracted ridiculously in the scene where she tries to hide in the closet of her future home.)
#74
Member
Originally Posted by mcfly
There was an extended scene in BTTF2 which shows what happened when Biff was shot in the mid 90s.
If you notice, when Biff returns the time machine he comes out limping when he breaks off his cane. He in fact had landed in 2015-A, whereas Marty, Doc, and Jennifer were still in 2015. The timeline had already skewed into the tangent, although Doc, Marty, and Jennifer weren't effected by it yet. Biff went back and corrupted the timeline creating the Alternate universe.. in which he got shot by Lorraine sometime around 1995 (this is according to Bob Gale). However, without that being explained the whole scene doesn't make sense. In the final cut of the film, we see Biff land up against a car in pain simply because there is no Biff in 2015-A. This little scene was cut short, and can be seen on the DVD - Biff actually disappears and erases from existence.
If you notice, when Biff returns the time machine he comes out limping when he breaks off his cane. He in fact had landed in 2015-A, whereas Marty, Doc, and Jennifer were still in 2015. The timeline had already skewed into the tangent, although Doc, Marty, and Jennifer weren't effected by it yet. Biff went back and corrupted the timeline creating the Alternate universe.. in which he got shot by Lorraine sometime around 1995 (this is according to Bob Gale). However, without that being explained the whole scene doesn't make sense. In the final cut of the film, we see Biff land up against a car in pain simply because there is no Biff in 2015-A. This little scene was cut short, and can be seen on the DVD - Biff actually disappears and erases from existence.
this is definitely a "leave logic at the door" kinda movie in terms of the time travel stuff, because it's almost impossible to follow rules that make complete sense with the plot they created.
#75
Member
Originally Posted by DieselsDen
The actress who who played Marty's original girlfriend was far, far cuter. And probably a better actress. (Elizabeth's Shue overracted ridiculously in the scene where she tries to hide in the closet of her future home.)