Harlan Ellison wrote a a really short story (like one page) about this once. A scientist builds a time machine and travels in it, only to end up stuck out in space.

However, almost all time travel movies use the "same place, different time" form of movement. My rationalization is that gravity still works in the 4th dimension. So you actually move physical location while time traveling, but that movement is relative to the Earth's movement since gravity is keeping you stuck to it.

On a BTTF note, in the first one, Marty comes back to 1985 and rushes to save Doc, jumping over a bum sleeping on a park bench on the way. I just recently realized (I think), that the bum is the same guy who was mayor in 1955.

It's not.

So much for me. :( I thought it was.

Actually, he is. According to IMDB, he plays Mayor Red Thomas in BTTF and the bum in BTTF II.

It most certainly is.

The same bum is the one Marty runs into when he gets to 1985A.

Bum: Hey! Watch where you're going.. crazy, drunk pedestrian!
Marty: Red!

And not to mention, when Marty gets back to 1985 at the end of BTTF, he hops out of the DeLorean and mentions Red's name (who is sleeping on the bench) when he says everything looks great..

The mayor in 1955 was Red Thomas.. so putting 2+2 together.. the joke being that the Mayor of 1955 turns into a bum down the road.

AHA! So much for YOU! :)

The answers to all your Back to the Future questions:
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"Why don't you make like a tree, and get out of here."

I forget Tom Wilson is a comedian.

I think I'd ask him about playing Maniac

I believe Ray Bradbury's " A Sound of Thunder" is the penultimate time travel story about this concept. Good story, poor movie.

I wish someone would do Heinlein's "Door Into Summer. That would be an interesting time travel flick.

It's the second to last time travel story about the concept? :hscratch:

Sorry. Meant to say ultimate.

Brain fog. Must be my allergies.

Yeah... that's just Harlan being funny.

Could be. Wasn't it Einstein who lumped time together with space and referred to them as time/space, or was it space/time? In either case, maybe time travel would (by its nature) also mean travel through space as well. Because a time traveler would actually be a time/space traveler. Or would that be a space/time traveler?

Now I'm confused.

That still brings up the issue of you arriving at the same place on earth as when you left.

If you travel through space/time what exactly is making sure you end up on *THIS* planet at *THIS* time? If you disrupt space and time what is making sure you don't end up on another planet in another solar system 30 years from now? What stops you from appearing in the middle of a sun? Who else believes this thread is getting too complicated for its own good?

I know no one else seemed to have noticed this comment, but Primer is one of my favorite movies now. What a great indy time travel movie. Still puzzling it out.

It's not like BTTF is a serious time travel movie. The whole Marty-starts-disappearing thing in the first one is ridiculous.

Thats why if i ever get to meet him i'll ask him about "April Fools Day".

Hold up.

BTTF I: Mary goes back in time so there is no overlap with himself (except at the end, but that's just review of "before").

BTTF II: If Old Biff goes back in time and changed everything (and assuming everything was changed back before he arrived back) wouldn't he have to arrive before he left to see how changes took effect? Otherwise he's just stepping back into his own shoes? Otherwise his Old self couldn't be the the New Old Self? Rather, if he successfully changed the past how could he come back to the future if his New 1955 Self were to live through the timeline? Wouldn't there be two of him?

Same goes for Marty in 2015 when he first arrives. If he left 1985, who was there for him to grow into? Wouldn't he be missing from the timeline?

well, Biff disappeared once he came back with the time machine. it doesn't make a lot of sense, since if he was killed in the future, yet can still bring the time machine back so that Marty and Doc can go back to the past which has changed.

as far as Marty in 2015, at that point in time, the future somehow knew Marty was going to go back from the future to live out his days, and old Marty would be there.

There was an extended scene in BTTF2 which shows what happened when Biff was shot in the mid 90s.

If you notice, when Biff returns the time machine he comes out limping when he breaks off his cane. He in fact had landed in 2015-A, whereas Marty, Doc, and Jennifer were still in 2015. The timeline had already skewed into the tangent, although Doc, Marty, and Jennifer weren't effected by it yet. Biff went back and corrupted the timeline creating the Alternate universe.. in which he got shot by Lorraine sometime around 1995 (this is according to Bob Gale). However, without that being explained the whole scene doesn't make sense. In the final cut of the film, we see Biff land up against a car in pain simply because there is no Biff in 2015-A. This little scene was cut short, and can be seen on the DVD - Biff actually disappears and erases from existence.

However, general audience goers wouldn't have gotten anything that complex without it being totally explained so they cut it to him being in pain for some reason.

Brack is correct about 47 year old Marty being in 2015, though.

The very premise of going BACK in time is flawed, so trying to figure out the paradoxes is futile.

When the Delorean is first introduced, Doc explained how Einstein was able to go FORWARD in time by skipping over sixty seconds instantaneously. But he never explains how one should "scientfically" be able to go BACKWARD in time. It's like explaining that Superman can fly because of Earth's weaker gravity (which still doesn't explain how he can accelerate) and then saying he also has heat vision to accompany it (or something of that nature).

Once the premise is flawed any attempt to explain it is wrongheaded.

The actress who who played Marty's original girlfriend was far, far cuter. And probably a better actress. (Elizabeth's Shue overracted ridiculously in the scene where she tries to hide in the closet of her future home.)

I got the trilogy on DVD, believe me, I know how it was explained from the extras and such, but it still doesn't make any sense, but had to in order for him to go into the future and leave the time machine there so marty and doc could go back. if he was shot around '95, how was the old Biff able to go back in time to being with?

this is definitely a "leave logic at the door" kinda movie in terms of the time travel stuff, because it's almost impossible to follow rules that make complete sense with the plot they created.

Agreed, but it didn't help that they made Elizabeth Shue look so ridiculous. Her hair is hilarious. She's looked better in ever single movie outside of the BTTF movies.