ViewAskewbian

1) Qui-gon is killed by Maul in The Phantom Menace
2) 10 years later is is heard over Yoda's meditation calling out to Anikan
3) In Sith we find out Yoda was speaking to Qui-gon and that he discovered how to become "one with the force" etc.
4) Yoda says he has to learn this and will teach Obi-wan in his "training" on Tatooine
5) In A New Hope Obi-wan lets Vader strike him down and becomes one with the force
6) Yoda passes on in Jedi and becomes one with the force

* * *

Okay, despite how rushed the explanation is in Sith about this, I can buy that Obi-wan and Yoda learn it in their exile...however:

7) Vader dies in Jedi and, in the end, he returns as Young Anikan (the DVD release).

How did Anikan learn the power? It took Qui-gon years to learn it from the "nether world" and Yoda an Obi-wan some time, I assume, in their exile. Even if both taught Anikan the power after his passing it was only, at the very least, a few DAYS before he reappeared. And why was he young at the time?

If he learned the power from Sidious how come Sidious does not return?

Is it me or does this not make any sense?

Mopower

Because he appeared the way he was when he was with the light side of the force. Or something like that. I'm sure they can appear in any form that pleases them since they are ghosts and all so why would he appear as Darth Vader? He probably learned the power from Palpatine or just figured it out by himself.

Brain Stew

Anakin is just that powerful. He is the greatest of all the jedi.

RoboDad

A lot of people say that. One could easily speculate that after Obi-Wan/s disappearance, Vader became interested in how he was able to do that, and learned the secret for himself. That explanation works to a degree, but it didn't work completely for me. Therefore, I came up with a different theory :

We know that Anakin didn't disappear while still on the Death Star, yet it is clear that he was dead, so we can presume that he was incapable at that point of joining with the Force on his own. But suppose, after Anakin's death, Yoda and Obi-Wan (who both knew the secret) had appeared to Luke and told him something like "there is still a chance for your father to join with the Force with our help, but you must hurry..." Then following their instructions (which presumably included the cremation of Anakin), Luke, Yoda and Obi-Wan help him complete the transition and join the Force.

Of course, this is all conjecture, since we never see any such scene, but we also don't see anyone else giving Luke instructions to cremate his father's remains, rather than bury him. And since we also saw Qui-Gon cremated, we know that his body had not yet disappeared, so it isn't too far-fetched to me to conclude that there is some correlation between that rite and the joining, at least in some cases, perhaps when one dies before having the chance to willingly join.

I'm sure some will consider it lame, but it works well enough for me.

DthRdrX

Qui-Gon learned how to retain his identity "after" his death. Obi-wan and Yoda both learned it from him while still alive, which explains why they disappeared at the time of their death and he did not.

Vader did disappear, off camera. Luke just burned the remains of the suit. It was Yoda and Obi-wan that helped Anakin retain his spirit. They preserved his image as a young man instead of the monster that he became in Vader.

Why did they do this for him? Because Obi-wan believes he failed Anakin in training him and Yoda feels the Jedi failed him.

The interesting thing that the PT has brought up is that Anakin wanted to stop death, leading to him becoming Vader and ruining his life. When Obi-wan disappeared, right in front of him, he didn't know what happened. He keeps this information to himself and tells Tarkin Obi-wan is dead. This is obviously the only logical conclusion he can come up with.

Another thing that makes a little more sense now is why Ben told Luke he must face Vader alone and that he couldn't help him in TESB. If Vader sees Ben, the gig is up. Remember Ben considers Vader lost and more machine than man. Who knows what he would have done to Luke. Also, the thought of an evil Darth Vader figuring out the secret to preserving his spirit is not something they want.

RoboDad

Says who?

mikehunt

I still like the theory that qui gon's ghost visited vader
http://darthside.blogspot.com/

DthRdrX

George Lucas has in the past. It's done off screen.

Also here is the official database entry on it.

"As he lay dying, Vader ceased to be. Anakin Skywalker returned. He asked his son to remove the cumbersome, fearsome mask that had concealed his face for decades. His mask and life support removed, Anakin looked upon Luke for the first and last time. He then died, his body disappearing into the light side of the Force. Luke burned the dark armor that had encased Anakin's crippled body in a quiet funeral pyre on the forest moon of Endor that night."

C'mon, logically why would Luke put the mask that tortured his father for most of his life back on? Who would do that?

Also, for those wondering, in the ROTJ commentary Lucas makes it clear that he becomes a spirit with Ben and Yoda's help.

Class316

It makes sense to have a Young Anakin because Obi Wan said that Anakin "died" when Darth Vader was born.

Also, I wonder why Qui Gon didn't appear at the end of ROTJ....

DthRdrX

Good point.

I'd rephrase that though to, "I wonder why Lucas didn't throw him into the ROTJ dvd with Hayden".

Answer: Because then the dvd release would have tipped everyone off that Qui-gon could retain his identity.

caligulathegod

Qui Gon had no real connection to Luke. I don't see why he would have appeared to him just for the sake of appearing.

jeffkjoe

Ben Kenobi and Yoda pulled Anakin into the netherworld of the Force.

The Infidel

I chalk this up to another case of Lucas pulling things out his arse as he goes.

RoboDad

Thanks. I tried to log on to the databank to find out, but for some reason, the site is getting hammered lately , so I often can't connect.

So, it sounds like my "version" is pretty close, in that I suspected that Obi-Wan and Yoda had to "guide" Anakin into the Force. I had just never heard about his body disappearing.

Sir Talos

Why was it important or urgent for Yoda and Obi-wan to learn the technique in the first place? This scene where Yoda talks about this occurs right after Anakin's supposed "death", maybe they wanted to learn it so they could commune with Anakin. As a Jedi it wouldn't be for selfish reasons such as eternal conciousness.

Yoda also says something that make it seem as though when a Jedis die they become "one" with the force. Seeing that Anakin "has some good in him" (according to both Luke and Padme) and he also turns back to the light side at the end of ROTJ, it is entirely plausible that he also became one with the force upon dying.

Yoda and Obi-wan could have enough knowledge of the force to help Anakin merge and thus he appears in the last good state we saw before his turn. Even if not everyone can believe that, the appearance of the ghost shows that Anakin did have good in him and Luke saved him.

jim_cook87

I don't think Anakin needed any assistance. After learning of Anakin's conception in TPM, I figured just fulfilling his purpose in destroying the Sith was all he needed to become one with the Force... After all three prequels I think that's still a sufficient conclusion...

Maxflier

Because Luke would have been like "who the f*** is that guy?"

DthRdrX