Stormtrooper / Clonetrooper Conversion
 

Episode 2&3 Clonetroopers - Cloned from Jango Fett, some who are (according to video games) Commandos and seem to be able to handle themselves quite well in a fight

Episode 4,5,6 Stormtroopers - Unable to hit the broadside of a barn and move with the agility of a sloth


When and How did the clonetroopers migrate into the stormtroopers ??

The only thing I can assume is that in the time period between Ep 3 & 4 there were new clones made and they were from lesser beings than Jango ???

Anyone able to explain a bit ???

I think they had a number of different people that they cloned off of. Other wise why would most of the stormtroopers in the OT have the same voice? Lucas didn't go back and dub Jango's voice in like he did with Boba Fett. So they can't be clones of Jango. Another reason why they might not be as good as the clone troopers is because if the stormtroopers were good shots all the main characters would die in A New Hope.

The stormtroopers are derived from Jango.

In Episode 2, Jango bonks his head a door similar to the famous goof by a stormtrooper in the OT. Lucas apparently put it in to show that they were of the same genetics and as a nod to the fans.

I can only assume that the stormtroopers are so bad because they had to resort to cloning clones since Jango is now dead and the resulting clones are of poorer quality.

I'm sure as time went on, they recruited more non-clones in the ranks of troopers along with the clones which would explain the different voices, height, etc. So mix of clones and non-clones now make up the storm troopers of the OT.

After the Empire was formed, Imperial academies were established throughout the galaxy (Luke wanted to go to one in ANH). So the stormtroopers in the OT include lots of non-clones.

I think that we are still to draw the conclusion that most of the stormtroopers are clones. Otherwise the final reveal of Episode 2 with the early Star Destroyers and clonetroopers doesn't have the same bite.

Then after that Luke says he "hates the empire" when talking to Obi-Wan about going to Allderaan. If he hates it then why does he want to join it?

He will do anything to get off the farm.

It has been confirmed by GL in an interview that the Stormtroopers in the OT are a mixture of original clones, newer batches of clones, and draftees/recruits.

You know, I grew up watching A New Hope and I never interpreted that Luke wanted to go to the Imperial Academy. He simply said "Academy." His buddy Biggs went to the same Academy, and they meet up later on as part of the Rebellion. So maybe the Rebellion had an Academy as well? What? The Rebellion didn't train pilots and soldiers??? Luke is obviously fascinated with the Rebellion even before he leaves Tatooine with Han and crew, as he asks in depth about it with C3PO. It is too inconsistent to see how enthused he is about the Rebellion and then draw the conclusion he wanted to go to an Academy to train to be a Stormtrooper.

I pointed this out on another thread. The Stormtroopers are clones, there are articles about this going back as far as 1978. All of the combat grunts are clones (basically everyone under a mask except The Royal Guards and Vader himself.) The Imperial Academy which Wedge (and Han if you follow the EU) is for recruitment of officers. Also the "Death Squad" which is basically the Military Police and the others wandering around Imperial Starships are also true human. The Stormtroopers of all variations are clones. "Aren't you a little short for a stormtrooper"

As far as the quality of the troopers go, look at it as if you are making copies of a video tape. The 1st generation is always pretty good, but if you make a copy of a copy of a copy the quality gets worse and worse.

Maybe a lot of them are still the original clones,in which case they would have aged ~20 years.Which would account for the loss of agility and aim.

While I agree they weren't going to the Imperial Academy, how would backwater farmboys find out where the Rebel Academy is when the Empire can't even hunt it down? Are there flyers posted around Mos Eisley with a fax number to "transmit your applications"?

"Aren't you a little short for a stormtrooper" can also imply a simple height requirement, like "you have to be this tall to ride this roller coaster"

he was probably going to go to the academy to learn to fly

most likely it's the imperial academy since if there was a rebellion academy it would be destroyed. Chances are most people in the imperial military are just there for a paycheck and not because they are evil. Luke would be there to learn to be a pilot. Biggs probably went to the imperial academy and then joined the rebellion

In a deleted scene (also found in the novelization) Biggs DID go to the Imperial Academy but then went AWOL to join the Rebels.

Right. It was in the book and the marvel comics adaptation. Biggs spoke with Luke before leaving Tatooine for the academy and told him he was going to jump ship and join the rebellion.

also... Leia was part of the Imperial Senate, but was secretly part of the Rebellion. So many of those in the Imperial Academy still may not have loyalty to the Empire. I'm sure many of the members of the rebel alliance were recruited from the Imperial Academy, even those who have served as officers (there was a story one that said General Maidene was an Imperial Officer)

It's definitely that way in the Novels and Comics. I mean c'mon, where else are they going to find people to fly starships?

That's taken from the original shooting script. Biggs and Luke have a long conversation where they talk about, among other things, how Biggs and some other recruits at the Imperial Academy had decided to defect to the Rebel Alliance the first chance they got.

I think this is probably a big part. I mean they are clones, are they just supposed to release them when they hit 40? Nah, they cost too much money. They use them until they die.

The "Jango Genetic Milkshake" went sour.

that got filmed didn't it?
I'm sure I've seen that in some deleted scenes I saw somewhere (probably buried some where in my huge number of not very well cataloged cds with video clips)

yeah but the clones are supposed to have excellerated aging... so If they were 40 they would physically be about 80. (I figure that most of them were shot by that point anyway)

There are some Luke/Biggs scenes on Tatooine, yeah.

Now that makes sense. But without that scene in the movie, would I assume that the Rebel's academy would be a set location? I would figure it would be on the move like they were, so they wouldn't be vulnerable to attack.

And if Luke was going to the Academy that was part of the Empire, who is to say he was training to be a Stormtrooper. There are plenty of clothed officers in the Empire's army as well.

I had this theory way back when that once the Emperor assumed control, he had to police the galaxy pretty quick. I may be wrong, but don't the Geonosians say something to the effect that clones require a certain amount of time to make, cook. If you sped up that process, then you would get inferior clones. My theory was that he got a quick and dirty army to establish control. After that, there was little to no resistance (other than that pitiful rebellion) so there was no need to upgrade the clones.

Poke all the holes you want.

If we want to go with a more rational explanation it is simply the limit of the story. In the PT we see the clones kicking some major butt because they are destroying the droids and doing a good job of it. In eps III they start killing using very unhonarable means. Fast Foward to the OT and now we have a small group of about five against five hundred storm troopers. There is no way that they are going to look that competent. There are only so many targets. Look at how they are at Hoth and the space battles. They are much more competent as there are many more expendable characters. It is a literary flaw.

If you want to explain it in the context of the story I think the explanations of them aging and maybe the Caminos cutting corners to ramp up production. I mean as many as they had in the PT they have to have that much more to cover most of the galaxy in the OT.

We all saw what happens to clones of clones in Michael Keaton's Multiplicity!

:lol:

I don't like the cloning a clone makes worse clones theory simply because it came from the movie Multiplicity.

You beat me to it. I was thinking the same thing after reading this thread.

If you want to get into the EU a bit, Palpatine cloned himself and his "clones" were rather weak.

I like pizza, Steve!

Once again the academy was for officers and various enlisted positions. The stormtroopers are clones and only clones, this was established as far back as 77

Do you just read every third post or what?

http://www.dvdtalk.com/forum/showpos...55&postcount=8

The Stormtroopers in 4-6 are not all clones. They had recruits as well.

I am not sure if they are ever considered canon, but in Star Wars Annual 3 (from the Marvel series, of course), we do see a story about recruits who become Stormtroopers. It is a pretty good story, too.

They had accelerated aging to grow to full size. But when full size maybe they age normally. So if they were aged 25 in ROTS they'd be 45 in ANH.

I believe he wanted to be a pilot. Cause in Ep 4 he plays with a model of the T16 Skyhopper (there's also an action figure based on that).

Yea that theory is scientifically incorrect.

I would say that a good rationale would be that the Empire didn't want them to be trained so well and didn't want them to be good shots just in case they all ended up turning on them like they did to the Jedi in EpIII.

Yo yo yo, here's the scenes.
http://www.starwarscutscenes.com/episode4/episode4.html

The rest of the site is cool as hell.
http://www.starwarscutscenes.com