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Need a Pep Talk...can Hayden pull this off?

Old 05-12-05, 05:37 PM
  #26  
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I don't care for his non-SW flicks at all.
Well, that's certainly your right. But the fact is THX 1138 is generally regarded as a great, serious science-fiction film by critics and serious sci-fi fans alike. Doesn't mean you have to like it. Still doesn't mean it's not a great film. I honestly can't stand Citizen Kane or 2001. But I still recognize them as great films. They bore me to tears.

American Graffiti is an American classic. Still doesn't mean you have to like it. But it is widely regarded as such. No film, no matter how great, is unanimously liked or considered great
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Old 05-12-05, 05:49 PM
  #27  
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See I just don't care if a film is supposedly "great."

As I"ve stated numerous times over the years, I watch movies to be entertained, if it doesn't entertain me I'm not going to see it's still a great film IMO.

Of course others are entitled to think it is, but I"m not going to recognize it as a great film as you do.
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Old 05-12-05, 05:54 PM
  #28  
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Well, I'll ask you this Josh. You can't see Lucas' talents as a filmmaker and a director when you watch those films? Like I said, Citizen Kane and 2001 are two of the most boring films known to man as far as I'm concerned. However, when I watched them I could clearly see the talents of the filmmakers coming through.

Surely you can see it in the original Star Wars and Return of the Jedi. Hell, I can even see it in parts of TPM and AOTC.
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Old 05-12-05, 09:41 PM
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See, the thing is I don't watch movies looking for people's talents as filmmakers and directors.

I just watch movies to be entertained. And I have a broad definition of being entertained, basically anything but bored or annoyed. It can be funny, scary, though provoking, disturbing etc.

That's all I judge films by. If I'm entertained the filmmaker did a good job. And yes I see George's talents in SW and the prequels (in places). He didn't direct ROTJ though as I'm sure you know. I didn't see them in his other films, as I wasn't entertained by them, and again that's all I judge by.

I never said he was talentless, just that he was mediocre/average in directing.
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Old 05-12-05, 10:31 PM
  #30  
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He didn't direct ROTJ though as I'm sure you know.
Um, actually he did indeed end up directing quite a bit of Jedi according to Kershner himself. He stated it bluntly in a previous Cineshlock interview, that Lucas indeed directed a quite a bit of the film because of contrasts with Marquand. According to Kershner, it was all kept hush-hush for obvious reasons. He didn't direct all of it for sure because Marquand directed quite a bit too, but he was basically a pawn. Lucas was there breathing down his neck at every step.

Last edited by Terrell; 05-12-05 at 10:45 PM.
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Old 05-12-05, 11:47 PM
  #31  
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I think Hayden will be able to pull it off...from the clips shown so far he looks pretty good...

Regarding his performance in AOTC...it was annoying as shit. But he is supposed to be annoying...christ...I want to backhand most 20 year olds. I honestly hated AOTC when I first saw it...now for some strange reason I enjoy the movie...very much...and TPM...I think that is because now I know I am getting to see what I have wanted to for so long in ROTS.

I think Lucas was indeed at one time a great director...I just think he took way too much time off...and he is really rusty...I mean...I think he might just be hitting his stride again with ROTS...I kinda wish he directed other pictures in between Jedi and TPM to keep up his chops.
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Old 05-13-05, 12:13 AM
  #32  
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I just think he took way too much time off...and he is really rusty...
I would agree with that. Though I also think Lucas never really had a gameplan for the prequels. He made a lot of it up on the fly, which didn't help. That and writing the screenplays, which he need to let someone else do.
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Old 05-13-05, 04:20 AM
  #33  
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Originally Posted by Terrell
I would agree with that. Though I also think Lucas never really had a gameplan for the prequels. He made a lot of it up on the fly, which didn't help. That and writing the screenplays, which he need to let someone else do.
Yup...I agree with you on that 100 percent. Lucas hates writing...he has stated that on many occasions...writing a screenplay for him is like pulling teeth...and it shows. There was some corny dialog in the OT...but not nearly as much as we have seen in the PT. While I do enjoy the PT, I can't help wonder what would have been if Lucas had someone pointing out the difference between the story he wants to tell...and the story that holds the most interest...but I digress.
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Old 05-13-05, 11:12 AM
  #34  
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I think a big part of it is Lucas isn't a good enough director to get good performances out of people in front of a blue screen. Not many directors are.

"Faster and more intense" isn't much guidance period, much less when your acting with nothing, or no setting etc.

But at least he did well enough to make the prequels enjoyable, but I can't help at lament at how much better they could have been.
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Old 05-13-05, 02:50 PM
  #35  
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My question is when does Anakin grow a brain? Darth Vader in the original trilogy was very articulate and some of his lines were even poetic. But Anakin has yet to utter a single memorable line. I guess ol' Palpatine exposes Darth to the works of great authors.
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Old 05-13-05, 02:56 PM
  #36  
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I don't think I was that articulate at 20 years old...christ...I am not that articulate at 27. I mean...Vader is basically a slave to his suit...it isn't like he can go kill Jedi during the week and go horseback riding and rock climbing on the weekends...so I guess the only thing he could do was gain knowledge and articulation.
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Old 05-13-05, 03:18 PM
  #37  
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Originally Posted by Josh Hinkle
I think a big part of it is Lucas isn't a good enough director to get good performances out of people in front of a blue screen. Not many directors are.
That may be part of it, but it doesn't explain why some of the non-CG scenes are just as cringe-worthy.
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Old 05-13-05, 03:29 PM
  #38  
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Originally Posted by Terrell
Well, that's certainly your right. But the fact is THX 1138 is generally regarded as a great, serious science-fiction film by critics and serious sci-fi fans alike. Doesn't mean you have to like it. Still doesn't mean it's not a great film. I honestly can't stand Citizen Kane or 2001. But I still recognize them as great films. They bore me to tears.

American Graffiti is an American classic. Still doesn't mean you have to like it. But it is widely regarded as such. No film, no matter how great, is unanimously liked or considered great

I think you said you also recognize the LOTR movies as great films that bore you to tears as well? Right? Nothing personal, it just makes sense that if you didn't like LOTR you wouldn't thorughly enjoy other movies people consider great as well, but still respect them. I admire that in a person.


Now if we can just get you to respect people who like the EU!

Last edited by Dr. DVD; 05-13-05 at 03:37 PM.
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Old 05-13-05, 03:50 PM
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Originally Posted by wmansir
That may be part of it, but it doesn't explain why some of the non-CG scenes are just as cringe-worthy.
A lot of that is do more to piss poor dialouge rather than poor acting/directing.

With the CG scenes you have the piss poor dialogue and worse acting.
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Old 05-13-05, 09:54 PM
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Originally Posted by KnightLerxst
I mean...Vader is basically a slave to his suit...it isn't like he can go kill Jedi during the week and go horseback riding and rock climbing on the weekends...
That would be awesome.
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Old 05-13-05, 10:23 PM
  #41  
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I used to blame the whole green screen thing on the bad performances until I saw Sin City.
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Old 05-14-05, 09:25 AM
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I wasn't saying green screen=bad acting.

I was saying green screen + director being mediocre at best at coaxing performances out of actors= bad acting.
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Old 05-14-05, 10:55 AM
  #43  
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Originally Posted by Josh Hinkle
I'm just expecting kick ass action scenes with some cheeseball dialogue that's poorly delivered by eveyrone but McGregor and McDiarmid.
Can't forget R2D2 and C3PO, they give great performances! I am not kidding, I love them in the movie!
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Old 05-14-05, 10:58 AM
  #44  
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Originally Posted by PopcornTreeCt
My question is when does Anakin grow a brain? Darth Vader in the original trilogy was very articulate and some of his lines were even poetic. But Anakin has yet to utter a single memorable line. I guess ol' Palpatine exposes Darth to the works of great authors.
His injuries and near death experience caused him to slow his speach and think about his words.
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Old 05-14-05, 12:09 PM
  #45  
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A lot of that is do more to piss poor dialouge rather than poor acting/directing.
For once you and I agree. Star Wars has never had Mamet-style dialogue. Even the originals have their fair amount of pedestrian dialogue. But because of the well-develop characters and their relationships, as well as solid, convincing performances, people rarely mention it.

I've never been one to buy into this Lucas being a terrible director is why some of the performances aren't working. If that were true, how can Lucas get good performances from some of the actors and not others. I know what the typical response would be, but I don't buy it.

Personally, and this is my own belief, is that bluescreen and clunky dialogue is the reason some of the performances in the prequels have been off.

Darth Vader in the original trilogy was very articulate and some of his lines were even poetic.
True, but there were also some clunky Vader lines. But the fact is James Earl Jones could make Looney Tunes dialogue sound articulate and poetic.

And yes, LOTR are well made films. But Good Lord they put me to sleep. The characters and story just honestly do nothing for me. I can understand why it does work for some though. But I never grew up a LOTR fan.

Last edited by Terrell; 05-14-05 at 12:14 PM.
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Old 05-14-05, 08:08 PM
  #46  
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Originally Posted by Terrell
I've never been one to buy into this Lucas being a terrible director is why some of the performances aren't working. If that were true, how can Lucas get good performances from some of the actors and not others. I know what the typical response would be, but I don't buy it.
Some actors are better and require little direction. Others need more direction to give a convincing performance.

Notice how in most cases the ones giving the strongest performances are the seasoned actors (Guinness, McGregor, Lee, McDiarmid) and the ones stinking up the joint are the relatively new actors like Hamil and Lloyd and Hayden.

The movies would have likely been much better if Lucas didn't insist on casting unknowns in lead roles. Sometimes it works out with someone like Harrison, sometimes it doesn't.

And before someone brings up Portman as a counter example, she was hardly the seasoned,well-regarded actress she is today back in 1997 or so when they began filming.
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Old 05-21-05, 02:05 AM
  #47  
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Just got back from the film and wanted to post in this thread since i started it.

I think Hayden did VERY well. Even the Padme scenes worked for me. I am more inclined to believe the "He was trying to act like a stiff, nervous 20-something" in AOTC based on his good performance here.

Anyway....nice job!
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Old 05-21-05, 10:37 AM
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I don't think he did "very well" IMO. But he did a good job and only made me cringe once or twice. Much better than I was expecting.
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Old 05-21-05, 10:54 AM
  #49  
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Passion and true intensity was lacking in Anny and Paddy's scenes IMHO. Just staring at the floor and frowning doesn't always work in the scenes. Portman is probably thought to be "the better actor" when compared to Hayden but I think she "powered down" to match Hayden. Now whether that was conscious or not...well, who knows.

But Hayden isn't a bad actor to me. He's just kinda average. I think what really bothers people, whether they realize it or not, is his obnoxious nasal sound. His Monotone delivery is pretty obvious.

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Old 05-21-05, 01:27 PM
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Originally Posted by BassDude
Just got back from the film and wanted to post in this thread since i started it.

I think Hayden did VERY well. Even the Padme scenes worked for me. I am more inclined to believe the "He was trying to act like a stiff, nervous 20-something" in AOTC based on his good performance here.

Anyway....nice job!
Exactly! That is what I have said all along. Listen to the interviews and commentaries, this is what Lucas intended. Face it people, Lucas is amazing at getting his vision on screen. You may not like his vision or agree with his artistic choices, but this arguement that he is poor director or writer is just not valid.
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