Kudama

I don't know if anyone mentioned this, but 15 is only two years away from being able to see NC-17 movies with no parental presence.

Ratings have become primarily a financial strong arm tactic used against artists. I think we can safely push the envelope when it comes to their value judgements. These are the people that think consensual sex and human nudity are more dangerous to our precious little minds than hardcore violence (not that I'm agin' it).

I hope to God I would raise my kid to be discerning enough to watch whatever he or she felt like and be crafty enough to get in when the man tries to close the door on them.

(Isn't 15 10th grade for crying out loud?)

If movies are going to create newer and better versions of the Trenchcoat Mafia, then you can bet day time TV or video games will issue forth something more lethal. If your kid's a psycho you might just know it by now. A quick test. Count how many housepets you've gone through in the last ten years that have achieved a nominal to excellent lifespan. If the ratio's good, let the kid see what they want. It's likeley to be safer than keeping them away.

My firm opinion is something along the lines of the adage "At 18 you should be allowed the decision to drink because you are allowed the decision to die and kill for your country."

When you are chucked into the living Hell of Junior High, you should be accorded some credit and priviledge for the adult that you have just rudely been turned into.

(was that more than 2 cents?)

Trigger

by the time I was 11, I was already watching R movies and stuff on my own... by 15, I was a veteran. My mom took me to see Risky Business in the theater when I was 9. I watched friday the 13th parts 1 thru 4 at a slumber party when I was 9 or 10. Saw Robocop in the theater with a friend my age at 13 and no adult supervision. I got in to see The Cook The Thief His Wife and Her Lover at the theater when I was 14 or 15 by myself. I think it all kinda depends on the 15 year old. Typically though, most could handle a violent flick.

Y2K Falcon

Sorry. Must be the prescription meds. I meant Last Temptation, not Passion. I think that one is still R, no?

Y2K Falcon

May I mention at this point that when this kid saw The Ring when it first came out on DVD (at a friends) he had nightmares for days.

Slayer2005

I had nightmares after first saw "A Nightmare on Elm St." when I was 4 or 5 years old, but that didn't stop me from wanting to watch it again. I wish more horror films today would give me nightmares. That means they really did their job.

Josh H

The obvious answer is it depends on the kid.

I would have been fine with both at 15. As long as the kid is mature (i.e. at least acts his age) and has no mental issues there should be no problems. Just a judgement call the parent has to make.

Lara Means

15 year old for Sin City? Hellz no.

riley_dude

They were IDing people at the door of Sin City-it's that violent. I would say NO!

badger1997

I guess some of the stories I have read in this thread just make me sad. It's kinda sad to me what some people will justify. Kids are kids and they grow up way too quickly as it is. I read about people being four or five and their parents letting them watch movies that are not even close to being appropriate for them. Today's kids have become way too desensitized to violence and I find it shocking that some would think Sin City or Saw is appropriate for most 15 year olds. Then again, when I saw Jeepers Creepers in the budget theater, a mother had all her kids with her right behind us, including kids who looked like they were about 13, 10, 6 and 3. So maybe I am the one without a clue today.

Venom

Saw is incrediably weak. i can't really that much violence at all, rather, it is all implied or off screen. i don't think their is any sex either. i liked the movie, but it isn't anything like a "video nasty," desipte some sadistic settings.

Sin City on the other hand is full of full, dead on, right in your face sadistic violence. and has sex, as i recall* all women are either strippers or hookers. the violence is stylized, but it is still violence. (*i haven't actually seen this movie, yet, but i have read more than enough to know exactly what is in it.)

at any rate, a 15 year old should have no problem with either movie, and would probablly really like them both. Ned Flander's kids withstanding.

the real test is for you to decide. go check them out and decide.

taa455

15 years old is still a child, and a majority of kids that age, especially boys, are VERY immature. Some people are saying, "but it's only 2 years away from 17." Well, at that age, 2 years is a long time. More maturity can be gained between ages 15 and 18 than at any other time in a person's life. I am not claiming a direct cause-effect relationship here, but why do you think there are so many more rapes in high school age and college these days? It is PARTLY because of all the violence and sex kids at a very impressionable age are watching. Like I said before, they become very casual in their thinking about very serious matters. You don't even have to go as far as rape. Many elementary schools across the country are dealing with boys and groups of boys making unwanted physical advances on girls, kissing them forcibly, groping them, not to mention all the verbal assaults. Also, as we all know violence in school is at an all-time high, not just shootings but fist fights and brawls happen every day.

I'm not saying kids should be sheltered from seeing everything, but parents do need to be more responsible in screening what their kids watch and having discussions with their kids about what they see on screen. I'm sorry but "they will see it anyway" is a pretty weak excuse in my opinion.

Michael Corvin

Well said.

thephantom

Huh?
http://www.ojp.usdoj.gov/bjs/glance/...viortrdtab.htm
http://www.rainn.org/statistics.html


http://www.ojp.usdoj.gov/bjs/pub/pdf/iscs03.pdf

No, it's not as we all know, it's as you percieve, thanks to the media. Did you know that every single year in the 90s had less school homicides than every single year in the 80s(can't find the link to back me up, but I'm 100% postive on it)? I'm guessing no. Why didn't you hear about it? Because the media in the 80s didn't give a shit about black gangbangers in inner-city schools. It also wasn't sensational, one kid shoots another in the bathroom and the body gets found 20 mins later. School violence only became an issue when it was one middle class white kid shooting up 15 other middle class white kids. Now THAT'S at story to the press, hence all the coverage which continued to build and spread, and possibly even inspired some of the later ones.

Back on topic, so far that 80s to 90s trend is continuing, with 2000-present being lower than 99(which was the lowest in the 90s).


As I said before, I believe that kids are casual about serious matters because they've never had to take anything serious. You go through life without any real responsibilities then consequences seem just ephemeral. College is IMO notoriously bad about extending this even longer, I've met more than a few 22 year old clueless teenagers.

taa455

Thanks for the links. I am happy to see that rapes have decreased over the past 10 or so years. Admittedly I had not checked any statistics, but was going by the number of rapes reported on college campuses in my state, which have doubled for the past two years compared to 4 years ago. But I also take your posted statistics with a grain of salt. For instance, the sample size is relatively small for one. Also, they can only consider the assaults which are reported. Thousands of assaults go unreported every year. One of your links states that only 40% (estimated) of rapes and sexual assaults are reported. Less than half! Fact is sexual assualt and violent crime are serious problems in our society. It appears I have delved deeper into this debate than I intended. My main point was our society, partly by the movies a lot of us consider suitable entertainment for 15 year olds, has created an atmosphere in which young people learn a casual attitude about violence. I'm just saying parents might want to think about that and not just dismiss it because of status quo. Evidently Y2K Falcon has at least given it some thought, which I applaud.

Kudama

I shudder to remember the rape sprees that occured among 15 year olds right after the comic came out.

Don't let this happen again!

tasha99

In cases where someone is mentally unstable, I'll buy the idea that movies can affect them. Most people, however, even teenagers, can separate reality from pretend. I wouldn't say that of gradeschool aged kids (I am actually pretty strict about what my seven year old watches, and will be for about another 5 years).

FWIW, when I lived in Japan, the movies that I saw were horrendously violent, yet the crime rate was much lower than the US crime rate. Every generation as far back as Plato's seems to have a group of people who are morally outraged by the theater and think it changes behavior, but I say horsehocky.

For the kid described in this thread though, I would probably say "no," because the Ring wasn't all that scary and it terrified him. (My concern wouldn't be that he'd become violent, but that he would have trouble sleeping and be scared, which isn't good).

Cygnet74

when a movie is as bad as Saw, is it really suitable viewing for anyone?

taa455

Again, I was not trying to claim a direct cause-effect relationship between watching movies and commiting violent acts. Movies are just one factor of many that contribute to an overall environment. A parent's attitude towards those same movies can also be a factor.

thephantom

Umm, if they know the % that go unreported, then they how many there were. It's also ironic you take a goverment survey with a grain of salt due to sample size but make your statement based only on college campuses in your state. For starters, since I don't know what state you're in you example could be California with 1000s of campuses, or Alaska with dozens, and who knows how many students on these campuses. Another thing, it the number of incidents may not have changed much, but the amount of reporting might be rising, which is a trend across across the country.

http://www.ojp.usdoj.gov/bjs/glance.htm#Crime

I'm not trying to say that things things aren't a major problem, but the fact is we're safer now in every respect than we were 20 years ago. All the statements that movies and television, whatever, creates a casual attitude towards violence have absolutely NO evidence to back them up. It it just seems to fit, so everyone goes along with it.

Here's my personal experience. As I said before, I've watch violent movies for as long as I can remember. At age 10, I figured out how to get the Spice channel to descramble on our satelite dish(the old huge ones), though it had no sound. Thus I began watching alot of porn. I've been in over a dozen fist fights, but haven't started a single one of them, and most of them where with people I'm now(or always was) good friends with. I worked odd jobs(cutting wood, painting barns, bucking hay) from 13 on to buy my own clothes, and also had a weekend job from 14 until I joined the navy, which was a substantial pay cut for me overall. I started partying with 20 year olds at 12, and drinking around age 13 on a semi-regular basis. When I was 17 that semi-regular basis was pretty much every Friday and Saturday. I lost my virginity on my 13th birthday to a 16 year old, I was most definitely NOT her first. A month later I slept with her 14 year old sister, and I wasn't her first either. I remember their names, but can't remember which was which. I've been to church less times than I can count on one hand, and don't consider myself as belonging to any religion.

My dad was fully aware of all of this. In fact the first 10 or so times I got drunk it was with his beer or whiskey, right in front of him. My littler brother was there for all of this, he's two years younger than me. For his 16th birthday, my brother threw himself a kegger. Our one standing parental commandment was "Don't go to jail, or if you do, don't expect me to help".

The end results of all of this wild living? I'm now 27 years old. I've never been arrested, hell I've never even gotten a parking ticket. I got pulled over only one time, for having expired tags(which weren't actually expired, I had the new ones in the glove box and forgot to put them on). I've never cheated on any woman I've been serious with, and don't understand guys that do. I've never used or taken any drugs, ever, not even experimenting. I was never anything close to alcoholic, always a social drinker, so these days I only drink maybe 10 times a year(camping, canoeing, the Superbowl).

I've got the highest paying job of all my friends and family, going on 9 years of experience in my field. I've started my own business, which failed, but I'm glad I tried.

My little brother? He's a corrections officer, married and has a kid. All my friends I did all this stuff with? Well they all turned out just fine too.

So you can see why I have a hard time swallowin that movies like Sin City or even crazy lifestyles or parents attitudes are sending this country and our children down the toilet.

DRG

If you don't let them go to/watch these movies they'll just download them on the Internet. Then the MPAA will send the FBI to your house. You'll be fined $100,000 and possible face some jail time. It's your call.

(Seriously though, they have probably already seen worse things on the web, both sexual and violent, than in either of these movies.)

pdinosaur

This sounds kind of funny. You can't "know what you don't know." You can guess tho. Eitherway, rape is bad mkay? :P

Your argument makes sense, but so does the other one. The problem lies in the tendency to over simplify the issue.

In the end, it takes a village to raise a child (or however it goes). Meaning, I won't go throw spears at people because it's encouraged in Mortal Kombat. I might, however, throw spears at people if it's encouraged in Mortal Kombat and it is not expressed to me that throwing spears at people will result in death, that video games aren't meant to be reenacted, that i can't in fact teleport, that people should be treated nicely, etc etc etc.

there's so many factors that go into how a person operates, it is unfair to BOTH sides to suggest the other is wrong because it's unfair to suggest one 2 hour movie will determine our entire life as well as to suggest that one 2 hour movie will not affect our life at all. yes, even goodburger.

ivelostr2

I was thinking the same thing. I was expecting the site to blast pulp fiction after the poster posted it a few posts ago, but it discusses the content of the film rationally, and never puts it down or condescends. I am actually impressed...

Emma311

My father let my sister & I watch R rated movies with him when we were younger. I saw Seven with him & I saw Scary Movie at the drive with him. Aside from the fact that I say ***** fairly often, I'm not really a lewd individual. Now my brother on the other hand was a bible toting PG watching guy for years. He had partial custody of his kids & when they visited they watched The 10 Commandments or Titanic. Now his wife is living with him again for the past couple of years, btw she's a real jerk. So my father mentions that when he visited my brother's 10 yr. old sons were watching some movie with ***** this, ***** that in it. When my father asked my brother, he said he couldn't control them. Recently my entire family was together for Easter & my brother's teenage daughters were telling really filthy jokes to my parents (their grandparents). I couldn't take it, I had to go outside & talk to my brother who was smoking on the front porch. Now my brother's kids aren't really that smart, on the other hand my sister & I were pretty good students. Maybe that has something to do with it. I don't know.

I thought that Saw was kind of freaky. Maybe the acting wasn't that great, but I adore Cary Elwes.

I saw Sin City when I recently visited my sister & the violence was so over the top, yellow blood, guys getting shot over & over or falling out of buildings & not dying. Plus for a movie called Sin City, I didn't think there was enough sex.

BTW-I always thought it was ridiculous that a 16 yr. old could drive alone & get into a car accident, but not get admitted to an R rated movie. The kids could be out getting high or getting pregnant. I'd say not to worry so much, it's only a movie.

I saw House when I was pretty young & I was frightened to open the medicine cabinet in my bathroom when I went in the middle of the night for a couple of years. Chucky used to give my little sister nightmares.

[QUOTE=Kudama]
When you are chucked into the living Hell of Junior High, you should be accorded some credit and priviledge for the adult that you have just rudely been turned into.
QUOTE]

Can I use this quote of yours as my signature? I really like it.

jetflair

Just wanted to chip in on the sex vs. violence issue. I'm a sexually conservative woman (in my mid-20s and still a virgin), but it bewilders me how much people freak out over nudity and sexual content. What possible harm could it do to someone to see a nude body? And how is a sex scene with visible boobs worse than a sex scene without? It's the same act and we all know it. The only time I have a problem with sexual content is if it is non-consensual...at which point it becomes violence which is a different issue in my opinion.

Come to think of it, Sin City is a good example of this. There are some shots of nude women engaged in conversation which didn't bother me in the slightest. But there is a scene where a kidnapped woman (clothed, I think...don't really remember) is being brutally whipped so that her captor can get turned on enough to rape her. THAT's sexual content that I find disturbing.

I don't believe that movies cause violence...but I do believe that movies can leave mental scars. When I was a child I saw a scene on a friend's TV where someone was being tortured with a hot poker. I was disturbed, and had nightmares for weeks. There are some things the human race is capable of that children don't need to know about, at least not in a graphic manner. I knew torture existed, but watching it is another matter entirely. I don't consider a teenager to be a child, however, and I guess it's the parent's responsibility to make sure they are introduced to things at the right pace.

I think if I were a parent and my teenager wanted to watch Sin City, I would let him...but I would take him to it, not let him go with his friends where the "that's cool!" pack mentality could take over. I would let him see my reactions to it, so that he would think it's normal to cringe at some of the stuff portrayed.