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ESB and RoTJ influences?

Old 05-03-05, 09:02 PM
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ESB and RoTJ influences?

Star Wars was based off of Hidden Fortress, it parallels the story, what would you say has ESB and RoTJ been based off of? It is much harder to think of then SW because SW can be a complete movie on its own, yet figuring out which movie might have had similar stories or influences interests me greatly.
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Old 05-03-05, 09:28 PM
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Well it is entirely possible there was no direct influence the way Star Wars had. Technically Empire and Return also carry the Hidden Fortress influence since the characters of C3PO and R2D2 carry through the story. Star Wars carries some structural similarities and character involvement similarities to Hidden Fortress, but some of that really carries over. You could easily site old school serials as influencing the entire series, and point to cliffhangers serials as influencing Empire. But simply, the influence is nonetheless fairly loose so unless Lucas points to something it's a bit hard to say whether there was something to talk about.
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Old 05-03-05, 09:39 PM
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SW and RoTJ are the easiest to think of movies that influenced as they have happy endings, i'd say the most vaunted ESB would be the hardest ,but the most satisfying!

There's a movie i have called The Sword and the Dragon (1956; Ilya Muromets in Russian title original) that i was so surprised and pleased to see RoTJ have a similar storyline. The hero Ilya Muromets, is an invalid cannot use his legs, frozen until a group of travelers give him a magical potion and he's free(this is in medieval russia btw, large prehistoric forests abound !) as Solo was unfrozen by Leia! On his horse he travels through a dark section of the forest and meets a wind demon, 3PO and R2 going through the desert toward the Palace of Jabba. Defeating the demon he takes it to a huge town with towering buildings, people feasting all around in a huge chamber and meets with the king. A HUGE fat looking creature about 30 feet tall is carried on a platform by an envoy of mongol hordes saying to pay tribute or he'll die , Jabba and the palace in RoTJ!
Then there's a period of lots of snooping around and Ilya being trapped in the castle dungeons like Luke in the Palace! Then the mongols and the kingdom's men have a massive battle with millions of men and it's a happy ending!
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Old 05-03-05, 10:10 PM
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But everything you mentioned are archtypes of fantasy stories; they weren't original to those earlier films either. You could look at any fantasy story and find links to every other story, if you look at it the right way.
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Old 05-03-05, 10:26 PM
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Actually Ilya Muromets is a Russian mythical hero who's story is written in numerous byliny in medieval times, i've read the tale and saw the movie and almost everything is per word. And remember, see the movie first.
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Old 05-03-05, 10:44 PM
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Yeah, but that doesn't change the fact that these are all mythical stories and characters, not original to only one source. I'm not saying you're completely wrong; the tale and movie could have influenced the SW films. But the examples you give are so general and vauge, you could relate them to almost any fantasy movie.
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Old 05-03-05, 10:56 PM
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I didn't just give a vague "hero in dark settings then huge battle later" sure that's in a lot of fantasy movies, I gave very specific examples that coincidentally moved along with RoTJ and seemed eerily similar. I'm not saying Lucas copied that movie at all but the occuring events with such accuracy to a movie like RoTJ which is unique in its own way is just interesting.

I can't believe i forgot another important aspect, Ilya fights his son alone at the end while the huge battle is going on. The dragon is ushered out by the mongols at the end spewing huge beams of fire, this is unbelievable!
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Old 05-03-05, 11:01 PM
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But you are still missing my point. The examples that you gave previously are very vague and could be matched to any fantasy story: character freed from frozen state (Tin Man from Wizard of Oz), encountering demons et al in a dark place (take your pick of any fantasy story), a creature holding a town hostage (Arthurian legends). These are all archetypes (I hate to keep using that word, but it's the best one that describes what I'm trying to say), and not only original to this particular Russian story.

I suggest checking out some stuff on Joseph Campbell and myths. You would be surprised at how much these legends overlap.
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Old 05-03-05, 11:25 PM
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Yeah but you see you stated single occurances in separate movies, like i said previously on the occurances. Heck i can take any occurances from any movies to patch together movies similar to others.
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Old 05-03-05, 11:38 PM
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OK, having looked up this Ilya Muromets fairy tale, it seems like you are twisting some of the story points to fit into your theory. You are taking one character and his travels from the Russian tale and applying them to several different characters and story points in the SW movies.
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Old 05-04-05, 04:14 PM
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FinkPish, buddy, watch the movie, i doubt any other movie is as close to RoTJ than Muromets.
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