Abob Teff

I am trying my damndest to not get into this debate . . . but that last post is bullshit.

Terrell

Well, when the question was asked, I assumed they were asking about films that actually and realistically changed society. I just don't see any film that has really changed society in any real, meaningful way. Are there powerful or memorable films that are classics, that have become ingrained in popular culture. Sure! But actually changed the day to day lives of the American civilization, or changed the way civilization works, no.

I'll use your first 3 examples. If you're claiming that those films caused those people to do that, I'd have to disagree. They may have claimed that, but they're really just a bunch of whack jobs who were seriously screwed by some traumatic event in their life, or at least what they though was serious enough to make them want to do something like that.

Sure, that's what he said. He's just completely full of it. He sexually assualted his wife because he was a nutjob. He just didn't want to take responsibility for his act, so he conveniently blamed it on a movie.

Cygnet74

these are typical knee-jerk reactions to this topic.

re-read my post!
i didn't say the films caused these crimes. only a fucking idiot or someone with a political agenda would claim that. but they did inspire the manner, or means by which the crimes were carried out. thus, they've had an influence that reached beyond the movie theatre or television. how could anyone honestly believe that a film -- whose purpose is to reach in and stir us emotionally, sometimes on a profound level -- couldn't also influence the morally weak or criminally-minded individual?

Terrell

Okay, let's say I buy that theory, which I don't. But how doesn't a film inspiring a nut job honestly impact or change society. It impacts that one individual, but has society as a whole been changed or impacted? Not really. Before you get mad, the topic does say films that have impacted society, so I take that to mean society as a whole. Otherwise the question would have been films that impacted an individual.

Cygnet74

if you fail to see the ancillary role films play in the scenario where two kids, who've decided on a murder-suicide plot, harvest their methods from society's primary resource for inventive depictions of graphic violence and how that, through their actions, impacts the rest of us... then i really don't know what to tell you... i think maybe you're being unrealistic. but again, i'm not saying its a cause. i'm saying films have ways of impacting society whether it be related to violence, fashion, politics, or whatever.

btw, sorry if a got I bit heated in my last post. my film is screening in a few days which always puts me on edge.

AsmodeusVice

I agree with you Cygnet74.

For those that don't believe a singular incident plays a bigger part in the grand scheme, think about this:

How many people have come out of a movie like Superman and wanted to go home and put on a pair of blue tights and a cape and pretend to be Superman.
Even if they are just pretending, their lives are changed, if ever so slightly, by that experience. Most people just dream about it, and there are the nuts that actually try to jump off of a building.
How many times have you heard about a GUY crying at the end of The Notebook? I've heard about too many to count (hell, I did myself). Their lives have been touched, and that changes you even if you don't see or feel the effect.
All movies in some way envoke some kind of emotion that could shape a persona differently. And even if the effects aren't visible, that experience will live with you for a while (if not for the rest of your life).

Look at The Fast and the Furious. If I had a nickel for every ricer I see on the street because of that movie, I'd be rich. But that movie also spawned countless other movies that are similar. Thus creating a "culture" of that movie's atmosphere. Not a great movie by any means, but still life altering. (Hell, even the show Jackass spawned so many wannabes that had individual incidences, but it made society take action and try to be more "aware" and create the PC enviornment we have today ...one incident may lead to a completely different "big picture").

Does anybody think that movies collectively, not individually, have created a different society?

I'd venture to say that at least for the past 20 years of filmmaking, filmmakers have tried to outdo each other creating a snowball effect of epic proportions. Thus creating a much more competitive society vicariously in the process. It's like the sequel mentality. You want the next one to be better than the first. so even though you're not directly involved with the process of making the film, you still want better. Thus you (and others as well) gain the "I want more" mentality. Thus changing culture as we know it.

Just think of the possibilities of what cinema has done to our society. Did it make it better by giving us the outlet by which to escape our daily lives, or much worse by SHOWING us how to do the bad things that characters do on screen?

Does anyone catch what I'm saying?

And another thing to ponder, what movies are people more apt to pay attention to and walk away from with a life changing effect? the feel good movie that shows that life could be better if we did what the film showed? or the violent action/crime/thriller that shows that it's so easy to be bad?

and lastly: (It's an obvious question, but still one to really think about in detail) If our lives were without the film industry (even TV), would we be the society we are today? and how would we be different?

Cygnet74

that really strikes at the heart of the matter. much of our being is comprised of the "lessons" (for lack of a better word) and emotions we experience not only through cinema, but in all forms of storytelling. the only "proof" you need is to consider how society would differ without it.

and welcome to the forum, asmodeusvice.

jpdude

Psycho ... people are still scared of the shower.

Jaws ... made many afraid to go near beaches.

Saturday Night Fever ... made a huge impact on pop culture in the late 70's.

Star Wars ... no doubt influenced many to want to get into the film business.

Roots ... yes, it was tv...but it was also more influential than most movies could ever be.

Abob Teff

OK, just a few shots here: Your example of "The Program" is flawed. Do a little research and you will find that the kid who died lying in the middle of the road was not mimicking the movie, but rather was performing a stupid stunt that had been done in that area since HIS PARENT'S generation. In fact, that is where the writer got the idea.

Another example (I did a research paper on this many years ago). A case in Ohio where a couple of kids threw a bowling ball off of an overpass . . . the bowling ball smashed through the back window of a passing car and killed an infant. Cause? Beavis and Butthead had put firecrackers into a bowling ball the week before. Reality: The kids not only didn't see that episode, but had never seen ANY Beavis and Butthead, and neither one even had cable TV.

Yes, it real easy after a tragedy to point at cinema and say "Life imitating art." However the lgoic of said argument is flawed at best. It is a little tougher to stand up and accept some personal responsibility (and realize that "you" just may have been a crappy parent.).

We're getting off the point here . . . not a movie, but how about Orson Welles' War of the Worlds broadcast?

Cygnet74

if you've read my posts, and i assume you have, you know that I never claimed films were at fault. responsibility is the perp's alone.

but i do have a question. where is the logical flaw in speculating that a would-be teenage murderer would use the depictions of violence experienced at the cinema as a point of inspiration for the methods he'd use in real life?

Cusm

Maybe I saw another Basketball Diaries then the dumb asses in Colorado, but what exactly were they trying to copy? I remember little violence and no guns. I have never heard this theory before either.

Cygnet74

daddydaryl

Watermelon Man?

Daniel-A

American History X comes to mind. Not sure why, can't think of anything happening because of it besides "water cooler" talk.

uberjoe

I personally didn't like it, but "The Passion of the Christ" certainly had an impact. It started a whole slew of discussions that lasted for months, and some would argue its invigoration of Christianity is still being felt.