A Grand Moff Tarkin Question...
01-18-05, 07:38 AM
#26
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I always thought Vader was more or less at the disposal of Tarkin, while also making sure that the Death Star was going to be finished on time, and to keep people in check (much like the beginning of ROTJ).
01-18-05, 09:21 AM
#27
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Originally Posted by Josh-da-man
Yeah, pretty much. Vader's like a henchman or hatchet man.
To continue my Bush/Rumsfeld analogy, Vader would sort of be like Rove. Or, probably more accurately, Liddy (if we go back to the Nixon admin).
To continue my Bush/Rumsfeld analogy, Vader would sort of be like Rove. Or, probably more accurately, Liddy (if we go back to the Nixon admin).
01-18-05, 09:38 AM
#28
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Originally Posted by Iron Chef
So Tarkin would have been like Janet Reno (taking out opposition groups left and right and being just plain ugly looking), whereas Vader would have been Hillary (no official office, but meddling in government affairs anyway)?
01-18-05, 09:47 AM
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Interestingly enough, according to this fan speculation, Vader "outranked" Tarkin:
http://www.theforce.net/swtc/insigni...cer.html#ranks
But maybe being in charge of the Death Star gave Tarkin some oversight or something.
http://www.theforce.net/swtc/insigni...cer.html#ranks
But maybe being in charge of the Death Star gave Tarkin some oversight or something.
01-18-05, 11:18 AM
#30
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I think Vader served the sole purpose of ridding the galaxy of Jedi, and once that was done he had little use, except for show, for him. Tarkin is more the equivalent of Goering, Goebbels, Hess and Romel. He established the policy of ruling by fear, he established policy, helped rule, helped with the execution /murders of millions. He is overseeing the most important project in the Empire since the eradication of the Jedi. Upon his demise, the Emperor turns his graces back to Vader, his most senior and trusted lackey. You can really tell a huge difference in Vader between ANH and ESB, he is shinier, badder and defiantly the shit, as in ANH he was just shit, although rather intimidating shit.
01-18-05, 11:19 AM
#31
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If we really want to dive into Star Wars political speculation, I'd wager that Vader got a big promotion within the Empire after the destruction of the Death Star.
Again, the movies are vague on the subject of politics, but when the first Death Star was destroyed, there's a chance that it took out a sizeable portion of the Imperial military leadership. We saw a lot of high-ranking officials were aboard the Death Star (when Tarkin announced that the Emporer had dissolved the Senate), so if they were still on-board when it blew up, there would've been a power vacuum.
So at the time of ESB, Vader was taking a more hands-on role in the military command structure. All it would've taken was a command by the Emporer to place Vader in a leadership role.
It's also been speculated that there were always two Death Stars (it's also unrealistic to believe that the second Death Star was built between ANH and ROTJ considering its size). Tarkin would've had one, and the Emporer would've had one at his command as well, as he wouldn't trust Tarkin with such a weapon at his disposal.
Eh. For all we know, the Emporer could've engineered Tarkin's downfall... we know that the arranged for the Rebellion to get the plans to the second Death Star to find its weakness, and this one was apparently built without the same weakened exhaust port the first one had. So if construction had begun on it before the first one went kablooey... do the math.
Again, the movies are vague on the subject of politics, but when the first Death Star was destroyed, there's a chance that it took out a sizeable portion of the Imperial military leadership. We saw a lot of high-ranking officials were aboard the Death Star (when Tarkin announced that the Emporer had dissolved the Senate), so if they were still on-board when it blew up, there would've been a power vacuum.
So at the time of ESB, Vader was taking a more hands-on role in the military command structure. All it would've taken was a command by the Emporer to place Vader in a leadership role.
It's also been speculated that there were always two Death Stars (it's also unrealistic to believe that the second Death Star was built between ANH and ROTJ considering its size). Tarkin would've had one, and the Emporer would've had one at his command as well, as he wouldn't trust Tarkin with such a weapon at his disposal.
Eh. For all we know, the Emporer could've engineered Tarkin's downfall... we know that the arranged for the Rebellion to get the plans to the second Death Star to find its weakness, and this one was apparently built without the same weakened exhaust port the first one had. So if construction had begun on it before the first one went kablooey... do the math.
01-18-05, 03:46 PM
#32
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Well according to the EU universe, there were several other death stars in production at the time. We can't forget about the secret Imperial Installation that was commanded by Grand Moff Dalla that was builing a death star was well as holding the ultimate weapon, the Sun Crusher.
01-18-05, 04:06 PM
#33
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STARWARS.com says:
Grand Moff Tarkin was the Imperial governor of the Outland Regions, and the mastermind of the Death Star project. A brilliant and ruthless tactician, Tarkin was a loyal adherent to Emperor Palpatine's vision of the New Order. He saw the Death Star as the ultimate weapon to ensure absolute rule over the galaxy. The power of the battle station's prime weapon was enough to deter any rebellion, he reasoned. To demonstrate the Death Star's power, he destroyed the planet of Alderaan.
Some questioned whether Tarkin's methods were merely bids to aggrandize his own status, in defiance of the Emperor's ultimate goal. The truth will never be known, for Tarkin perished aboard his creation. The Rebel Alliance dared to wage war with the Empire, and targeted a weak spot in the battle station. A proton torpedo volley fired by young Luke Skywalker sealed the station's fate. Tarkin was killed in the resulting explosion.
And STARWARS.com says even more when you consider Expanded Universe:
Even as a young man, Wilhuff Tarkin was a being of vision. He saw the decay inherent in the Republic all too well from his base of operations in the Outer Rim. He ascended the military and political ranks of his native Eriadu, a densely populated world in the Seswenna sector. During the waning days of the Republic, he made valuable contacts in Palpatine's senate, and in the world of corporate interests.
When Palpatine restructured the galactic government, Tarkin was granted command of the Seswenna sector. This came on the heels of an outrage orchestrated by Tarkin on the distant world of Ghorman. Tarkin landed his vessel on a platform filled with activists protesting Imperial taxation. Rather than be reprimanded for the murder of hundreds, Tarkin was rewarded for orchestrating the Ghorman Massacre, as it later became labeled by the Rebellion.
From the start, resistance forces fought against the New Order. They took advantage of the bureaucratic borders that separated sectors, knowing that they could elude Imperial sector forces by jumping out of their spheres of influence.
To counter this tactic, Tarkin proposed a new organizational scheme to the Emperor. In addition to the sectors defined by astrographic and political boundaries, there'd be overlapping 'priority sectors' defined by the amount of treasonous activity therein. A single official would command these territories -- a Grand Moff -- who would oversee the allotment of resources personally. Palpatine was pleased with Tarkin's proposal, and granted Tarkin with the title and an enormous area of operations in the Outer Rim Territories.
Another of Tarkin's visions was the so-called doctrine of fear, or the Tarkin Doctrine as it is officially known. Rather than expend the incredible amounts of resources necessary for subjugating all the worlds of the Empire, the New Order would instead make visible a single show of force that could be used to cow any treasonous activity. This mindset culminated in the creation of the Death Star, a brainchild of Tarkin realized by a cadre of advanced scientists in a secret laboratory known as Maw Installation.
During the secrecy surrounding Maw Installation, Tarkin took a mistress, a young Imperial commander named Daala. Tarkin considered the young Naval officer his protégé, and taught her the basics of military tactics. She was assigned the duty of protecting Maw Installation. No one in the upper echelons of the Empire knew of the secret laboratory, and the engineers who had fashioned the deep space installation were killed after its completion. When Tarkin died at Yavin, he took the Maw secret to the grave with him.
Tarkin was survived by his widow, a severe woman who ran a megonite moss mining operation on Phelarion. On that planet, a solid black obelisk stands as tribute to the memory of this influential Imperial.
Grand Moff Tarkin was the Imperial governor of the Outland Regions, and the mastermind of the Death Star project. A brilliant and ruthless tactician, Tarkin was a loyal adherent to Emperor Palpatine's vision of the New Order. He saw the Death Star as the ultimate weapon to ensure absolute rule over the galaxy. The power of the battle station's prime weapon was enough to deter any rebellion, he reasoned. To demonstrate the Death Star's power, he destroyed the planet of Alderaan.
Some questioned whether Tarkin's methods were merely bids to aggrandize his own status, in defiance of the Emperor's ultimate goal. The truth will never be known, for Tarkin perished aboard his creation. The Rebel Alliance dared to wage war with the Empire, and targeted a weak spot in the battle station. A proton torpedo volley fired by young Luke Skywalker sealed the station's fate. Tarkin was killed in the resulting explosion.
And STARWARS.com says even more when you consider Expanded Universe:
Even as a young man, Wilhuff Tarkin was a being of vision. He saw the decay inherent in the Republic all too well from his base of operations in the Outer Rim. He ascended the military and political ranks of his native Eriadu, a densely populated world in the Seswenna sector. During the waning days of the Republic, he made valuable contacts in Palpatine's senate, and in the world of corporate interests.
When Palpatine restructured the galactic government, Tarkin was granted command of the Seswenna sector. This came on the heels of an outrage orchestrated by Tarkin on the distant world of Ghorman. Tarkin landed his vessel on a platform filled with activists protesting Imperial taxation. Rather than be reprimanded for the murder of hundreds, Tarkin was rewarded for orchestrating the Ghorman Massacre, as it later became labeled by the Rebellion.
From the start, resistance forces fought against the New Order. They took advantage of the bureaucratic borders that separated sectors, knowing that they could elude Imperial sector forces by jumping out of their spheres of influence.
To counter this tactic, Tarkin proposed a new organizational scheme to the Emperor. In addition to the sectors defined by astrographic and political boundaries, there'd be overlapping 'priority sectors' defined by the amount of treasonous activity therein. A single official would command these territories -- a Grand Moff -- who would oversee the allotment of resources personally. Palpatine was pleased with Tarkin's proposal, and granted Tarkin with the title and an enormous area of operations in the Outer Rim Territories.
Another of Tarkin's visions was the so-called doctrine of fear, or the Tarkin Doctrine as it is officially known. Rather than expend the incredible amounts of resources necessary for subjugating all the worlds of the Empire, the New Order would instead make visible a single show of force that could be used to cow any treasonous activity. This mindset culminated in the creation of the Death Star, a brainchild of Tarkin realized by a cadre of advanced scientists in a secret laboratory known as Maw Installation.
During the secrecy surrounding Maw Installation, Tarkin took a mistress, a young Imperial commander named Daala. Tarkin considered the young Naval officer his protégé, and taught her the basics of military tactics. She was assigned the duty of protecting Maw Installation. No one in the upper echelons of the Empire knew of the secret laboratory, and the engineers who had fashioned the deep space installation were killed after its completion. When Tarkin died at Yavin, he took the Maw secret to the grave with him.
Tarkin was survived by his widow, a severe woman who ran a megonite moss mining operation on Phelarion. On that planet, a solid black obelisk stands as tribute to the memory of this influential Imperial.
01-18-05, 04:13 PM
#34
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As far as Darth Vader's roles, here's what the official site says:
When the Galactic Civil War raged across the Empire, Darth Vader was tasked with discovering the location of the Rebel Alliance's secret base.... Vader also sought technical plans stolen by the Rebels....
Three years after the destruction of the Death Star, Vader led an elite squadron of Star Destroyers headed by his flagship, the Super Star Destroyer Executor. He was to seek out and capture the Rebels responsible for the Death Star's demise...
After these incidents, Palpatine reassigned Vader from the Imperial fleet, and instead put him in charge of overseeing the new Death Star operation
When the Galactic Civil War raged across the Empire, Darth Vader was tasked with discovering the location of the Rebel Alliance's secret base.... Vader also sought technical plans stolen by the Rebels....
Three years after the destruction of the Death Star, Vader led an elite squadron of Star Destroyers headed by his flagship, the Super Star Destroyer Executor. He was to seek out and capture the Rebels responsible for the Death Star's demise...
After these incidents, Palpatine reassigned Vader from the Imperial fleet, and instead put him in charge of overseeing the new Death Star operation
01-18-05, 05:12 PM
#35
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Originally Posted by Iron Chef
So Tarkin would have been like Janet Reno (taking out opposition groups left and right and being just plain ugly looking), whereas Vader would have been Hillary (no official office, but meddling in government affairs anyway)?
01-18-05, 05:18 PM
#36
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Good stuff GuessWho!
I'm telling you guys, Tarkin's story and this discussion, is more interesting than all three "Episodes".
I'm telling you guys, Tarkin's story and this discussion, is more interesting than all three "Episodes".
Last edited by Giantrobo; 01-18-05 at 11:37 PM.
01-18-05, 06:37 PM
#39
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Originally Posted by GuessWho
As far as Darth Vader's roles, here's what the official site says:
When the Galactic Civil War raged across the Empire, Darth Vader was tasked with discovering the location of the Rebel Alliance's secret base.... Vader also sought technical plans stolen by the Rebels....
Three years after the destruction of the Death Star, Vader led an elite squadron of Star Destroyers headed by his flagship, the Super Star Destroyer Executor. He was to seek out and capture the Rebels responsible for the Death Star's demise...
After these incidents, Palpatine reassigned Vader from the Imperial fleet, and instead put him in charge of overseeing the new Death Star operation
When the Galactic Civil War raged across the Empire, Darth Vader was tasked with discovering the location of the Rebel Alliance's secret base.... Vader also sought technical plans stolen by the Rebels....
Three years after the destruction of the Death Star, Vader led an elite squadron of Star Destroyers headed by his flagship, the Super Star Destroyer Executor. He was to seek out and capture the Rebels responsible for the Death Star's demise...
After these incidents, Palpatine reassigned Vader from the Imperial fleet, and instead put him in charge of overseeing the new Death Star operation
01-18-05, 08:18 PM
#40
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It says that Tarkin was the "mastermind" of the Death Star project. I guess that is plausible. The Genosians came up with it, but once Palpatine/Sidious got a hold of it, he needed someone to oversee its construction, and I guess that it was Tarkin.
I hope we get a little Tarkin in III, but I'm not holding my breath.
I hope we get a little Tarkin in III, but I'm not holding my breath.
01-22-05, 09:37 PM
#42
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Originally Posted by Josh-da-man
The only hold-over from the EU that made it into the prequels was naming the Imperial throneworld Coruscant.
Originally Posted by lopper
And Aurra Sing from Ep. 1
Originally Posted by DVDsAreMyLIFE
Well according to the EU universe, there were several other death stars in production at the time. We can't forget about the secret Imperial Installation that was commanded by Grand Moff Dalla that was builing a death star was well as holding the ultimate weapon, the Sun Crusher.
01-24-05, 10:38 AM
#43
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Originally Posted by Josh-da-man
It's also been speculated that there were always two Death Stars (it's also unrealistic to believe that the second Death Star was built between ANH and ROTJ considering its size). Tarkin would've had one, and the Emporer would've had one at his command as well, as he wouldn't trust Tarkin with such a weapon at his disposal.
Eh. For all we know, the Emporer could've engineered Tarkin's downfall... we know that the arranged for the Rebellion to get the plans to the second Death Star to find its weakness, and this one was apparently built without the same weakened exhaust port the first one had. So if construction had begun on it before the first one went kablooey... do the math.
Eh. For all we know, the Emporer could've engineered Tarkin's downfall... we know that the arranged for the Rebellion to get the plans to the second Death Star to find its weakness, and this one was apparently built without the same weakened exhaust port the first one had. So if construction had begun on it before the first one went kablooey... do the math.
I think this is BS. No one knew about the Deathstar, the empire's ultimate weapon, and it was able to move so they had no need to build 2. If you recall the Galactic Senate was still together in the beginning of ANH, so it would be hard for Palpatine to divert the funds for 2 Deathstars. Plus if you look at our millitary, when a new state of the art HUGE airplane, battleship, aircraft carrier, etc is built, they build one first, then more as needed and supplies allow. The second Deathstar is far from complete and Vader is pushing it to be "Operational" not completed when we see him on the 2nd Deathstar.
01-24-05, 11:45 AM
#44
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Originally Posted by Cusm
I think this is BS. No one knew about the Deathstar, the empire's ultimate weapon, and it was able to move so they had no need to build 2. If you recall the Galactic Senate was still together in the beginning of ANH, so it would be hard for Palpatine to divert the funds for 2 Deathstars. Plus if you look at our millitary, when a new state of the art HUGE airplane, battleship, aircraft carrier, etc is built, they build one first, then more as needed and supplies allow. The second Deathstar is far from complete and Vader is pushing it to be "Operational" not completed when we see him on the 2nd Deathstar.
A quote came to mind, from the movie Contact. After the first Machine is destroyed, the crazy rich dude takes Ellie to the second and says why build one, when you can build two for twice the cost?
Remember, one of the first groups we see Palpatine controlling is the Trade Federation. I think channelling funds is the least of his concerns.
01-24-05, 04:19 PM
#46
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Originally Posted by milo bloom
The generally accepted time span between ANH and ROTJ is 3.5 years. There is no way they could have built that much of a second Death Star in such a short time. I think it's safe to assume, that when we see the little hologram of the DS in AOTC, construction is either just about to, or has just begun. And that's a good 20 years before ANH.
A quote came to mind, from the movie Contact. After the first Machine is destroyed, the crazy rich dude takes Ellie to the second and says why build one, when you can build two for twice the cost?
Remember, one of the first groups we see Palpatine controlling is the Trade Federation. I think channelling funds is the least of his concerns.
A quote came to mind, from the movie Contact. After the first Machine is destroyed, the crazy rich dude takes Ellie to the second and says why build one, when you can build two for twice the cost?
Remember, one of the first groups we see Palpatine controlling is the Trade Federation. I think channelling funds is the least of his concerns.
I stand by the official cannon of the SW universe, the movies, and submit the following.
Luke Skywalker has returned to his home planet of Tatooine in an attempt to rescue his friend Han Solo from the clutches of the vile gangster Jabba the Hutt. Little does Luke know that the GALACTIC EMPIRE has begun construction on a new armored space station even more powerful than the first dreaded Death Star. When completed, this ultimate weapon will spell certain doom for the small band of rebels struggling to restore freedom to the galaxy...
This is a galaxy that has hyperdrive technology, I am sure in 3.5 years they could make some major progress on a 2nd Deathstar, especially when the Emperor has to answer to no one.
01-25-05, 01:46 PM
#47
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Originally Posted by Cusm
This is a galaxy that has hyperdrive technology, I am sure in 3.5 years they could make some major progress on a 2nd Deathstar, especially when the Emperor has to answer to no one.
Exactly. People need to stop insisting that the Empire is using technicians from the Ford Motor Company to build these things. Somehow I think its not a union shop with 8 hour work days, two 15 minute breaks and a 30 minute lunch everyday.
01-25-05, 02:02 PM
#48
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Originally Posted by kcbrett5
Exactly. People need to stop insisting that the Empire is using technicians from the Ford Motor Company to build these things. Somehow I think its not a union shop with 8 hour work days, two 15 minute breaks and a 30 minute lunch everyday.
Last edited by cygnet74; 01-25-05 at 02:05 PM.
01-25-05, 02:12 PM
#49
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Originally Posted by cygnet74
i think the disparity arises with the time span between seeing the plans in AOTC and a completed death star over 20 years later in ANH. then, it took a mere 3.5 years to get a death star (incomplete) in ROTJ that's more than twice a big as the original, if not bigger? the question then becomes, why would the emperor wait so long to build it if not because it took that long to build?
The movies say they have just begun building the Death Star in ROTJ. End of discussion.
01-25-05, 02:28 PM
#50
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Originally Posted by Draven
End of discussion.