Matrix lawsuit clear to go ahead!
12-20-04, 03:02 PM
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Matrix lawsuit clear to go ahead!
http://www.slccglobelink.com/global_...storyid=785067
Holy cow - if this is legit, she's in for quite a payoff (provided she wins, of course). And it would explain why Matrix 2 and 3 sucked so much ass - the W brothers had to write it themselves!
Holy cow - if this is legit, she's in for quite a payoff (provided she wins, of course). And it would explain why Matrix 2 and 3 sucked so much ass - the W brothers had to write it themselves!
Monday, October 4th 2004 ended a six-year dispute involving Sophia Stewart, the Wachowski Brothers, Joel Silver and Warner Brothers. Stewart's allegations, involving copyright infringement and racketeering, were received and acknowledged by the Central District of California, Judge Margaret Morrow residing.
Stewart, a New Yorker who has resided in Salt Lake City for the past five years, will recover damages from the films, The Matrix I, II and III, as well as The Terminator and its sequels. She will soon receive one of the biggest payoffs in the history of Hollywood, as the gross receipts of both films and their sequels total over 2.5 billion dollars.
Stewart filed her case in 1999, after viewing the Matrix, which she felt had been based on her manuscript, "The Third Eye," copyrighted in 1981. In the mid-eighties Stewart had submitted her manuscript to an ad placed by the Wachowski Brothers, requesting new sci-fi works.
According to court documentation, an FBI investigation discovered that more than thirty minutes had been edited from the original film, in attempt to avoid penalties for copyright infringement. The investigation also stated that "credible witnesses employed at Warner Brothers came forward, claiming that the executives and lawyers had full knowledge that the work in question did not belong to the Wachowski Brothers." These witnesses claimed to have seen Stewart's original work and that it had been "often used during preparation of the motion pictures."
The defendants tried, on several occasions, to have Stewart's case dismissed, without success.
Stewart has confronted skepticism on all sides, much of which comes from Matrix fans, who are strangely loyal to the Wachowski Brothers. One on-line forum, entitled Matrix Explained has an entire section devoted to Stewart. Some who have researched her history and writings are open to her story. Others are suspicious and mocking. "It doesn't bother me," said Stewart in a phone interview last week, "I always knew what was true."
Some fans, are unaware of the case or they question its legitimacy, due to the fact that it has received little to no media coverage. Though the case was not made public until October of 2003, Stewart has her own explanation, as quoted at daghettotymz.com:
"The reason you have not seen any of this in the media is because Warner Brothers parent company is AOL-Time Warner... this GIANT owns 95 percent of the media... let me give you a clue as to what they own in the media business... New York Times papers/magazines, LA Times papers/magazines, People Magazine, CNN news, Extra, Celebrity Justice, Entertainment Tonight, HBO, New Line Cinema, Dreamworks, Newsweek, Village Roadshow... many, many more!... They are not going to report on themselves. They have been surpressing my case for years..."
Fans who have taken Stewart's allegations seriously, have found eerie mythological parallels, which seem significant in a case that revolves around the highly metaphorical and symbolic Matrix series. Sophia, the greek goddess of wisdom has been referenced many times in speculation about Stewart. In one book about the Goddess Sophia, it reads, "The black goddess is the mistress of web creation spun in her divine matrix."
Although there have been outside implications as to racial injustice (Stewart is African American), she does not feel that this is the case. "This is all about the Benjamins," said Stewart. "It's not about money with me. It's about justice."
Stewart's future plans involve a record label, entitled Popsilk Records, and a motion picture production company, All Eyez On Me, in reference to God. "I wrote The Third Eye to wake people up, to remind them why God put them here. There's more to life than money," said Stewart. "My whole message to the world is about God and good and about choice, about spirituality prevailing over 'technocracy'."
If Stewart represents spirituality, then she truly has prevailed over the "technocracy" represented in both the Terminator and the Matrix, and now, ironically, by their supposed creators.
Stewart is currently having discussions with CBS about a possible exclusive story and has several media engagements in the near future to nationally publicize her victory.
CORRECTION REGARDING PREVIOUS STORY
In reference to the recent article entitled "Mother of the Matrix Victorious," some information has been deemed misleading. Ms. Sophia Stewart has not yet won her case against Joel Silver, Time Warner and the Wachowski Bros. The decision on October 4th enabled Ms. Stewart to proceed with her case, as all attempts to have it dismissed were unsuccessful. Ms. Stewart's case will proceed through the Central District Court of California.
Stewart, a New Yorker who has resided in Salt Lake City for the past five years, will recover damages from the films, The Matrix I, II and III, as well as The Terminator and its sequels. She will soon receive one of the biggest payoffs in the history of Hollywood, as the gross receipts of both films and their sequels total over 2.5 billion dollars.
Stewart filed her case in 1999, after viewing the Matrix, which she felt had been based on her manuscript, "The Third Eye," copyrighted in 1981. In the mid-eighties Stewart had submitted her manuscript to an ad placed by the Wachowski Brothers, requesting new sci-fi works.
According to court documentation, an FBI investigation discovered that more than thirty minutes had been edited from the original film, in attempt to avoid penalties for copyright infringement. The investigation also stated that "credible witnesses employed at Warner Brothers came forward, claiming that the executives and lawyers had full knowledge that the work in question did not belong to the Wachowski Brothers." These witnesses claimed to have seen Stewart's original work and that it had been "often used during preparation of the motion pictures."
The defendants tried, on several occasions, to have Stewart's case dismissed, without success.
Stewart has confronted skepticism on all sides, much of which comes from Matrix fans, who are strangely loyal to the Wachowski Brothers. One on-line forum, entitled Matrix Explained has an entire section devoted to Stewart. Some who have researched her history and writings are open to her story. Others are suspicious and mocking. "It doesn't bother me," said Stewart in a phone interview last week, "I always knew what was true."
Some fans, are unaware of the case or they question its legitimacy, due to the fact that it has received little to no media coverage. Though the case was not made public until October of 2003, Stewart has her own explanation, as quoted at daghettotymz.com:
"The reason you have not seen any of this in the media is because Warner Brothers parent company is AOL-Time Warner... this GIANT owns 95 percent of the media... let me give you a clue as to what they own in the media business... New York Times papers/magazines, LA Times papers/magazines, People Magazine, CNN news, Extra, Celebrity Justice, Entertainment Tonight, HBO, New Line Cinema, Dreamworks, Newsweek, Village Roadshow... many, many more!... They are not going to report on themselves. They have been surpressing my case for years..."
Fans who have taken Stewart's allegations seriously, have found eerie mythological parallels, which seem significant in a case that revolves around the highly metaphorical and symbolic Matrix series. Sophia, the greek goddess of wisdom has been referenced many times in speculation about Stewart. In one book about the Goddess Sophia, it reads, "The black goddess is the mistress of web creation spun in her divine matrix."
Although there have been outside implications as to racial injustice (Stewart is African American), she does not feel that this is the case. "This is all about the Benjamins," said Stewart. "It's not about money with me. It's about justice."
Stewart's future plans involve a record label, entitled Popsilk Records, and a motion picture production company, All Eyez On Me, in reference to God. "I wrote The Third Eye to wake people up, to remind them why God put them here. There's more to life than money," said Stewart. "My whole message to the world is about God and good and about choice, about spirituality prevailing over 'technocracy'."
If Stewart represents spirituality, then she truly has prevailed over the "technocracy" represented in both the Terminator and the Matrix, and now, ironically, by their supposed creators.
Stewart is currently having discussions with CBS about a possible exclusive story and has several media engagements in the near future to nationally publicize her victory.
CORRECTION REGARDING PREVIOUS STORY
In reference to the recent article entitled "Mother of the Matrix Victorious," some information has been deemed misleading. Ms. Sophia Stewart has not yet won her case against Joel Silver, Time Warner and the Wachowski Bros. The decision on October 4th enabled Ms. Stewart to proceed with her case, as all attempts to have it dismissed were unsuccessful. Ms. Stewart's case will proceed through the Central District Court of California.
12-20-04, 03:07 PM
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This case sounds like such utter BS. Besides her consistent use of the race card, her highly implausible accusations (are we really going to believe that Terminator and Matrix were ripoffs of the same script?) and the issue of her sounding like a complete nutjob, I just don't believe her. Oh, that and her script is a complete retelling of the Book of Revelations, and the Matrix is a patchwork of inspiration from a ton of different sources. I could go on...but this women sounds crazy.
Anyway, it's an interesting case, if not for any reason it's amusing to see rather ridiculous claims. Here's a forum dedicated to this story, it's fun to read.
http://www.matrix-explained.com/php/...91734365772be9
Anyway, it's an interesting case, if not for any reason it's amusing to see rather ridiculous claims. Here's a forum dedicated to this story, it's fun to read.
http://www.matrix-explained.com/php/...91734365772be9
12-20-04, 04:15 PM
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No offense, but every story that is told today has inspirations on past stories. Just because the Matrix is based on the Book of Revelations does not mean that she did not write the script that the Matrix is based on. I'm not saying she has convinced me, but if she really did send a script to the borthers in response to an ad, that looks pretty damn bad for them.
In addition, it is true that Matrix 2 and 3 were not nearly as well written or complex. It wouldn't entirely surprise me that they come from different sources.
In addition, it is true that Matrix 2 and 3 were not nearly as well written or complex. It wouldn't entirely surprise me that they come from different sources.
12-20-04, 04:26 PM
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I guess it depends on how close the scripts/movies are to her script.
My limited reading on the subject seemed to be saying that the similarities were fairly slight, and the claim is mostly based on the idea of computers taking over and fighting against humans.
It may well be that The Matrix and The Terminator stole from her script. I don't know, but it's not all that uncommon for two people to have similar ideas (I was looking through a 'script sales' column the other day and saw that someone had sold a script that, from the logline, sounded exactly like a script I had written. But since my script never made it out of my desk drawer, it's clearly just a coincidence).
I would be interested in seeing some more specific comparisons between her script and the movies. I know there's a lot of stuff here: http://www.daghettotymz.com/matrix/matrix.html , but I've not waded through it all yet.
My limited reading on the subject seemed to be saying that the similarities were fairly slight, and the claim is mostly based on the idea of computers taking over and fighting against humans.
It may well be that The Matrix and The Terminator stole from her script. I don't know, but it's not all that uncommon for two people to have similar ideas (I was looking through a 'script sales' column the other day and saw that someone had sold a script that, from the logline, sounded exactly like a script I had written. But since my script never made it out of my desk drawer, it's clearly just a coincidence).
I would be interested in seeing some more specific comparisons between her script and the movies. I know there's a lot of stuff here: http://www.daghettotymz.com/matrix/matrix.html , but I've not waded through it all yet.
12-20-04, 05:32 PM
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Too many people are too quick to say, "Oh, whatever, lots of stories are similar; she's just trying to get cash." While it would be folly to make the opposite assumption, why don't we wait until we know more to make up our minds? It's a fact that stories are stolen, and this happens with screenplays alarmingly often. I was advised by a movie producer to register my novel with the Writer's Guild of America before I sent it out to publishers and agents. While most won't steal your material, you simply can't trust 100% of the people looking at your work 100% of the time.
12-20-04, 05:34 PM
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interesting. I don't have time to wade through all the other sites, I might later. Not sure who's case I would believe. But to be successful at sueing Silver and WB wouldn't she have to have proof that they knew that the W's stole the idea? I think it is those two she may be successful at sueing. Not too sure about the others.
Where did these other cases fall (just for reference sake)? In favor of the accuser or studio?
the Finding Nemo lawsuit
the Underworld lawsuit
Where did these other cases fall (just for reference sake)? In favor of the accuser or studio?
the Finding Nemo lawsuit
the Underworld lawsuit
12-20-04, 05:38 PM
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Well, we can't really tell since she has not released the supposed script that Matrix and Terminator supposedly stole from. There are a couple of pages excerpted from it, which have basically no resemblance to The Matrix save for the mention of the one and some dark clothing. When I say resemblance to revelations, it obviously has some very strong influences right down to specific lines and plot details.
In the end, if you just read a little more of her rants and ravings about these people stealing her ideas, she jsut sounds psychotic. It's not just the little things, but the way she sounds. And if the second two Matrix films deviated from her and henceforth sucked, why is she asking for money derived from those films? If you listen to the interviews, and read her sites, she goes on and on about black white conspiracies and the man pushing her down and so on. It's just a bit preposturus having read those pages, and reading the ridiculous rhetoric. If it were true, hell, give her some money. I'm just having a hard time believing that James Cameron ripped her off also, keeping in mind Cameron has already been successfully sued regarding The Terminator and has given credit accordingly to someone completely unrelated to this woman.
Just look at her claim that Time Warner is supressing the entire media of this story, as a way to stamp out the supposed truth of her situation. Her conspiracy ramblings just make me have a really tough time believing anything else this woman says.
In the end, if you just read a little more of her rants and ravings about these people stealing her ideas, she jsut sounds psychotic. It's not just the little things, but the way she sounds. And if the second two Matrix films deviated from her and henceforth sucked, why is she asking for money derived from those films? If you listen to the interviews, and read her sites, she goes on and on about black white conspiracies and the man pushing her down and so on. It's just a bit preposturus having read those pages, and reading the ridiculous rhetoric. If it were true, hell, give her some money. I'm just having a hard time believing that James Cameron ripped her off also, keeping in mind Cameron has already been successfully sued regarding The Terminator and has given credit accordingly to someone completely unrelated to this woman.
Just look at her claim that Time Warner is supressing the entire media of this story, as a way to stamp out the supposed truth of her situation. Her conspiracy ramblings just make me have a really tough time believing anything else this woman says.
12-20-04, 06:07 PM
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Originally Posted by jaeufraser
And if the second two Matrix films deviated from her and henceforth sucked, why is she asking for money derived from those films?
For example, you write a book. No one can write a sequel to it using the same characters and general storyline you created. Not without your permission.
12-20-04, 06:44 PM
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Copyright infringement is so difficult to prove because what becomes one's intellectual property is hard to nail down.
The 'Underworld' suit is an example. I mean, they came up with 65 points of similarities between the movie and the "White Wolf" stories/products/whatever, some of which included stuff like "the older vampires are referred to as Elders in both works" or that in both works, the history of vampires is written in ancient texts or even that silver weapons harm werewolves.
Looking at those and others that make up the case (like vampires having the ability to disappear from view or having the strength of "ten men" or that vampire groups refer to themselves as separate 'covens'), you can come to the conclusion just from the rote listing of the similarities that it's all pretty silly since a lot of it is simply part of the evolving vampire lore that's been around for quite some time or were fairly obvious things that many people could have independently come up with.
They might have stolen it (maybe even without realizing it), or they may have come up with these things on their own (or even taken them from previous works other than the "White Wolf" stuff). It's difficult to know for sure (especially without the specific examples)
The 'Underworld' suit is an example. I mean, they came up with 65 points of similarities between the movie and the "White Wolf" stories/products/whatever, some of which included stuff like "the older vampires are referred to as Elders in both works" or that in both works, the history of vampires is written in ancient texts or even that silver weapons harm werewolves.
Looking at those and others that make up the case (like vampires having the ability to disappear from view or having the strength of "ten men" or that vampire groups refer to themselves as separate 'covens'), you can come to the conclusion just from the rote listing of the similarities that it's all pretty silly since a lot of it is simply part of the evolving vampire lore that's been around for quite some time or were fairly obvious things that many people could have independently come up with.
They might have stolen it (maybe even without realizing it), or they may have come up with these things on their own (or even taken them from previous works other than the "White Wolf" stuff). It's difficult to know for sure (especially without the specific examples)
12-20-04, 07:33 PM
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Interesting...this is the first I've heard of it.
If the article is to be taken as fact, then the fact that they had the source material and referenced it when making the movie and later edited the movie to make it less like the source material is pretty compelling evidence. An FBI investigation, that sounds pretty official to me.
It makes me want to read the original material to see what was taken out.
If the article is to be taken as fact, then the fact that they had the source material and referenced it when making the movie and later edited the movie to make it less like the source material is pretty compelling evidence. An FBI investigation, that sounds pretty official to me.
It makes me want to read the original material to see what was taken out.
12-20-04, 07:52 PM
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Originally Posted by Mr. Salty
Wait, I thought "The Terminator" cribbed from Harlan Ellison.
12-20-04, 09:24 PM
#22
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I once spoke to a screenwriter and he told me that in Hollywood, there are no new ideas when it comes to stories. He wrote a spec script about a guy who dug a well all the way to hell; he later got threatened with a lawsuit from another writer claiming he had stolen his idea.
Bottomline: trying to prove anything is purely original to one source is very difficult.
jaefrauser: while I can agree with you, the race card is something that is very hard to trump nowadays. Once it's dealth, it typically yields some sort of payoff.
Bottomline: trying to prove anything is purely original to one source is very difficult.
jaefrauser: while I can agree with you, the race card is something that is very hard to trump nowadays. Once it's dealth, it typically yields some sort of payoff.
Last edited by Dr. DVD; 12-20-04 at 09:31 PM.
12-20-04, 09:46 PM
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Originally Posted by clemente
Interesting...this is the first I've heard of it.
If the article is to be taken as fact, then the fact that they had the source material and referenced it when making the movie and later edited the movie to make it less like the source material is pretty compelling evidence. An FBI investigation, that sounds pretty official to me.
It makes me want to read the original material to see what was taken out.
If the article is to be taken as fact, then the fact that they had the source material and referenced it when making the movie and later edited the movie to make it less like the source material is pretty compelling evidence. An FBI investigation, that sounds pretty official to me.
It makes me want to read the original material to see what was taken out.
I'm not entirely sure why the FBI would investigate such a matter in the first place and have seen nothing of the claimed criminal charges in regards to this case.
12-20-04, 11:09 PM
#24
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It seems like it will be a difficult suit to win. First, one can't copyright ideas. Just having similar ideas to a story isn't enough. And second, if one could prove independent creation, then there's no infringement no matter who similar. Of course, the great thing she can hang her hat on is the fact she sent her script to the Wachowski Brothers (assuming this is true). That could be a big blow.
12-20-04, 11:29 PM
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I can't imagine why she would send her story to the Wachowski Brothers after the same story (not a script. She wrote a long essay) was, according to her, already stolen by James Cameron, et al for The Terminator many years before (when The Terminator came out, the Wachowski Brothers were still in their teens).