Decline of the Star Trek Movies: I think I know why.... (Spoilers!!!)
10-05-04, 04:56 PM
#51
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Originally posted by riley_dude
I remember reading that originally they had planned a darker film reminiscent of "Apocolypse Now" but Stewart wanted a lighter film and that's what we got.
This is what happens when actors get too much control. Stewart with Insurrection. Spiner with Nemesis.
I remember reading that originally they had planned a darker film reminiscent of "Apocolypse Now" but Stewart wanted a lighter film and that's what we got.
This is what happens when actors get too much control. Stewart with Insurrection. Spiner with Nemesis.
Not that B&B were helping anymore.
10-05-04, 04:58 PM
#52
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Odd that no one mentions that Jonathan Frakes directed First Contact and Insurrection, what about the power he had?
And the original cast got a lot of power after the first film. Nimoy would only do II if Spock died, he would only do III if he could direct, he co-wrote the story on VI. Shatner would only do V if he wrote and directed.
And the original cast got a lot of power after the first film. Nimoy would only do II if Spock died, he would only do III if he could direct, he co-wrote the story on VI. Shatner would only do V if he wrote and directed.
10-06-04, 06:21 PM
#53
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I remember first hearing about the Romulans being the featured villians for Nemesis and i thought that this was going to be a sci-fi/action/war flick....with the Klingons in the OS being the main villians,we never got a chance to get the full affect of the Romulans. We knew they were badass from a few episodes,but we were never shown they're full potential. We know they were basically evil Vulcans...intelligent,but yet...Bad!
Granted, the Borg took over that badass status, I felt Nemesis couldve gone deeper into the Romulan's relationship with Humans,Vulcans,and Klingons.Have the Romulans take advantage of the Starfleet/Borg war in First Contact,they sat all these years waiting for the perfect moment to strike...here's their chance. Starfleet being crippled and now re-building the fleet,have the Romulans best vs. Picard,in an all out war using strategy to win, fleet vs. fleet (where is that famous "Picard Maneuver" when you need it?)
IMO, Nemesis couldve been so much better this way
Granted, the Borg took over that badass status, I felt Nemesis couldve gone deeper into the Romulan's relationship with Humans,Vulcans,and Klingons.Have the Romulans take advantage of the Starfleet/Borg war in First Contact,they sat all these years waiting for the perfect moment to strike...here's their chance. Starfleet being crippled and now re-building the fleet,have the Romulans best vs. Picard,in an all out war using strategy to win, fleet vs. fleet (where is that famous "Picard Maneuver" when you need it?)
IMO, Nemesis couldve been so much better this way
10-06-04, 06:26 PM
#54
DVD Talk Hero
Originally posted by riley_dude
I remember reading that originally they had planned a darker film reminiscent of "Apocolypse Now" but Stewart wanted a lighter film and that's what we got.
This is what happens when actors get too much control. Stewart with Insurrection. Spiner with Nemesis.
I remember reading that originally they had planned a darker film reminiscent of "Apocolypse Now" but Stewart wanted a lighter film and that's what we got.
This is what happens when actors get too much control. Stewart with Insurrection. Spiner with Nemesis.
10-06-04, 07:12 PM
#55
Banned
Re: Decline of the Star Trek Movies: I think I know why.... (Spoilers!!!)
Originally posted by needamazing
[B]
Star Trek VI: The Undiscovered Country - Event: Nothing
Again in this movie nothing big really happened. No one died. Nothing got invented or destroyed. It felt like a long episode although it was well done. But, since nothing really happened the movie is not remembered for anything extraordinary and thus is not looked upon as one of the best. The decline continues
[B]
Star Trek VI: The Undiscovered Country - Event: Nothing
Again in this movie nothing big really happened. No one died. Nothing got invented or destroyed. It felt like a long episode although it was well done. But, since nothing really happened the movie is not remembered for anything extraordinary and thus is not looked upon as one of the best. The decline continues
10-07-04, 03:42 AM
#56
DVD Talk Hall of Fame
Originally posted by NotoriousDRE
I remember first hearing about the Romulans being the featured villians for Nemesis and i thought that this was going to be a sci-fi/action/war flick....with the Klingons in the OS being the main villians,we never got a chance to get the full affect of the Romulans. We knew they were badass from a few episodes,but we were never shown they're full potential. We know they were basically evil Vulcans...intelligent,but yet...Bad!
Granted, the Borg took over that badass status, I felt Nemesis couldve gone deeper into the Romulan's relationship with Humans,Vulcans,and Klingons.Have the Romulans take advantage of the Starfleet/Borg war in First Contact,they sat all these years waiting for the perfect moment to strike...here's their chance. Starfleet being crippled and now re-building the fleet,have the Romulans best vs. Picard,in an all out war using strategy to win, fleet vs. fleet (where is that famous "Picard Maneuver" when you need it?)
IMO, Nemesis couldve been so much better this way
I remember first hearing about the Romulans being the featured villians for Nemesis and i thought that this was going to be a sci-fi/action/war flick....with the Klingons in the OS being the main villians,we never got a chance to get the full affect of the Romulans. We knew they were badass from a few episodes,but we were never shown they're full potential. We know they were basically evil Vulcans...intelligent,but yet...Bad!
Granted, the Borg took over that badass status, I felt Nemesis couldve gone deeper into the Romulan's relationship with Humans,Vulcans,and Klingons.Have the Romulans take advantage of the Starfleet/Borg war in First Contact,they sat all these years waiting for the perfect moment to strike...here's their chance. Starfleet being crippled and now re-building the fleet,have the Romulans best vs. Picard,in an all out war using strategy to win, fleet vs. fleet (where is that famous "Picard Maneuver" when you need it?)
IMO, Nemesis couldve been so much better this way
10-07-04, 10:47 AM
#57
DVD Talk Hero
Originally posted by riley_dude
I remember reading that originally they had planned a darker film reminiscent of "Apocolypse Now" but Stewart wanted a lighter film and that's what we got.
I remember reading that originally they had planned a darker film reminiscent of "Apocolypse Now" but Stewart wanted a lighter film and that's what we got.
There was even to be an epic conflict that would have had characters from DS9 and Voyager cross over into this TNG film but it was never filmed.
EDIT: I'm not comparing Insurrection to STIV. I love the latter and hate the former. It's just that Stewart once stated that he wanted Insurrection to be TNG's Voyage Home type movie. Really stupid considering the subject matter of the film was about mass genocide approved by the Federation (well one high ranking meber of the Federation). I fail to see the comic potential in that.
Last edited by RocShemp; 10-07-04 at 10:53 AM.
10-08-04, 02:43 PM
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The problems with the TNG movies is that they're simply not put together well.
Generations is the greatest offender here. From the uniforms to the sets to the characters, nothing really fits together very well. It's lacking a lot of internal consistency, and the plot feels simply like a 2-hour long Star Trek episode. There are a lot of neat character advances, but it's nothing we haven't seen before and better too (Data grappling with emotions, Picard's family life, etc).
First Contact is where they got a lot of things right. I don't mind the drunk genius storyline, it worked. If you wanted to see a genius strut his stuff it would have been a movie filled with stupid, boring treknobabble. The "cute" moments actually worked in this movie (blowing the hair on Data's arm, the pee joke, "engage", etc.). It also should have been the complete and total end of the Borg EVER.
Insurrection I won't even touch.
I didn't see Nemesis, because I still wanted to have some respect for Star Trek.
Furthermore, I never felt that the TNG cast lived up to the quality of characterization that the OS cast did. Picard and Data weren't great characters, and at least you could call several characters from TOS assholes. There was just something a little more interesting about swashbuckling Star Trek characters.
Generations is the greatest offender here. From the uniforms to the sets to the characters, nothing really fits together very well. It's lacking a lot of internal consistency, and the plot feels simply like a 2-hour long Star Trek episode. There are a lot of neat character advances, but it's nothing we haven't seen before and better too (Data grappling with emotions, Picard's family life, etc).
First Contact is where they got a lot of things right. I don't mind the drunk genius storyline, it worked. If you wanted to see a genius strut his stuff it would have been a movie filled with stupid, boring treknobabble. The "cute" moments actually worked in this movie (blowing the hair on Data's arm, the pee joke, "engage", etc.). It also should have been the complete and total end of the Borg EVER.
Insurrection I won't even touch.
I didn't see Nemesis, because I still wanted to have some respect for Star Trek.
Furthermore, I never felt that the TNG cast lived up to the quality of characterization that the OS cast did. Picard and Data weren't great characters, and at least you could call several characters from TOS assholes. There was just something a little more interesting about swashbuckling Star Trek characters.
