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Batman (1989)- political satire?

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Batman (1989)- political satire?

Old 08-25-04, 03:14 PM
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Batman (1989)- political satire?

I was thinking about this the other day, there's Bruce Wayne the corporate capitalist, the rich business man by day and by night the Dark Knight. And then there's the Joker who gains power through murder and lies. But the Joker isn't all bad he gives back to the community, he throws a giant parade and throws out cash everywhere. "Money, money, hubba, hubba, Who do you trust?" But wait the Joker is really just using the money as bait to lure and kill and all the people. And there is the told-you-so Batman who shows up and has to stop him.

I think the movie speaks volumes about government programs that just give out money to people and then they die anyway. It's up to the capitalists to put an end to this nonsense and save the day.

P.S. Anyone agree or am I reaching here?
Old 08-25-04, 03:18 PM
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you are reaching... it is more of the robin hood story
Old 08-25-04, 03:23 PM
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You're giving this enjoyable but ridiculously overrated movie too much credit.
Old 08-25-04, 03:23 PM
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Lay off the crack son.
Old 08-25-04, 03:36 PM
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I'm Batman
Old 08-25-04, 04:17 PM
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Man, Burton, Peters, and Co. cut out so much of Sam Hamm's shooting script it's not to be believed.

Did anyone bother questioning why, after poisoning and murdering many residents of Gotham City (including a newscaster on live television), and then gloating about it, the Joker was able to march on a float in parade right down the heart of downtown Gotham without a single cop, FBI agent, National Guardsman, or SWAT sniper taking his painted ass out?

Anyone?

The script explains why. But don't bother the creative/corporate types with simple logic...
Old 08-25-04, 05:44 PM
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Why?
Old 08-25-04, 05:49 PM
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Where can one read Sam Hamm's script online, I've always been curious about it.
Old 08-25-04, 06:30 PM
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Originally posted by Matt Millheiser

...
The script explains why. But don't bother the creative/corporate types with simple logic...
you obviously didn't get the memo: Burton is a genius and his Batman movies are dark and serious the way they are supposed to be and not campy like the Schumacher films.
Old 08-25-04, 08:04 PM
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Originally posted by candyrocket786
Why?
Right before the parade, The Joker systematically poisoned all of Gotham's police departments. it was literally anarchy, and Batman was really the only thing stepping in the Joker's way.

If the film played this angle up (as admittedly silly as it is), it would have made that final showdown that much more dire and critical. Instead they just edited it out (if they shot it at all), and we're left with one of many, many plotholes in that film.

I like Tim Burton, but story (and story logic) has never been his strong point.

I don't know if Hamm's script is online; I bought it years ago and have long since lost it (along with his Watchmen script, which I wish I still had.) But Burton/Peters did a lot of rewrites on it.
Old 08-25-04, 10:07 PM
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Originally posted by Matt Millheiser
Man, Burton, Peters, and Co. cut out so much of Sam Hamm's shooting script it's not to be believed.

Did anyone bother questioning why, after poisoning and murdering many residents of Gotham City (including a newscaster on live television), and then gloating about it, the Joker was able to march on a float in parade right down the heart of downtown Gotham without a single cop, FBI agent, National Guardsman, or SWAT sniper taking his painted ass out?

Anyone?

The script explains why. But don't bother the creative/corporate types with simple logic...
I was actually wondering about that the other day. Not only did a wanted criminal like the Joker hold a parade in downtown Gotham, he promoted the freaking thing on TV earlier that day! I realize it was to draw Batman out into the open, but it also gave every authority figure in the city a heads up on the Joker's whereabouts.
Old 08-25-04, 10:20 PM
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Originally posted by Jackskeleton
Lay off the crack son.
Old 08-26-04, 07:08 AM
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Originally posted by Matt Millheiser
Man, Burton, Peters, and Co. cut out so much of Sam Hamm's shooting script it's not to be believed.

Did anyone bother questioning why, after poisoning and murdering many residents of Gotham City (including a newscaster on live television), and then gloating about it, the Joker was able to march on a float in parade right down the heart of downtown Gotham without a single cop, FBI agent, National Guardsman, or SWAT sniper taking his painted ass out?

Anyone?
Guess not, same as nobody questioning how in the f**k the Batwing, armed with heavy artilley, missiles, etc., could be taken down by ONE SINGLE BULLET. Ridiculous.
Old 08-26-04, 07:11 AM
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Originally posted by Matt Millheiser
I don't know if Hamm's script is online; I bought it years ago and have long since lost it (along with his Watchmen script, which I wish I still had.) But Burton/Peters did a lot of rewrites on it.
Hell, Burton was writing shit right there on the spot in between takes in many cases. During the filming of the Joker and Batman ascending up that long tower at the end, Nicholson asked Burton, "Why are we going up the stairs?" to which Burton replied, "I don't know. I'll tell you when you get there".
Old 08-26-04, 07:13 AM
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I think Batman is a thinly-disguised gay love story, which came to its thematic pinnacle when our hero received a "boy wonder". Then his nipples got hard. End of story.

Last edited by The_Infidel; 08-26-04 at 07:15 AM.
Old 08-26-04, 08:34 AM
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It's obvious that the Joker represents George W. Bush and Batman is John Kerry.
Old 08-26-04, 08:54 AM
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Whatever your smoking..... pass that sh!t
Old 08-26-04, 11:35 AM
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Originally posted by Joe Molotov
It's obvious that the Joker represents George W. Bush and Batman is John Kerry.
Kudos to Nicholson and the make-up artists - they nailed the trademark smirk.

Originally by The Joker Now comes the part where I relieve you, the little people, of the burden of your failed and useless lives. But remember, as my plastic surgeon always said: if you gotta go, go with a smile.
Works for me, man. Adios, overtime.

Grsdk.
Old 08-26-04, 12:09 PM
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Originally posted by Rivero
Hell, Burton was writing shit right there on the spot in between takes in many cases. During the filming of the Joker and Batman ascending up that long tower at the end, Nicholson asked Burton, "Why are we going up the stairs?" to which Burton replied, "I don't know. I'll tell you when you get there".
That's one thing that's always bothered me: The Joker radios to have a helicopter to meet him at the top of the cathedral in 15 minutes, then heads up. Batman follows, and Joker then takes out the stairs. When Batman gets to the top, there are thugs waiting to beat him up.

How did they get there? Did the Joker just have thugs stationed at the top of every building?
Old 08-26-04, 12:48 PM
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Originally posted by majorjoe23
Batman follows, and Joker then takes out the stairs. When Batman gets to the top, there are thugs waiting to beat him up.

How did they get there? Did the Joker just have thugs stationed at the top of every building?
Those three were just chillin' playin poker and shootin' the shit when they got the signal from Joker to hang tight cause he was comin up a mile of stairs so the chopper wouldn't have to waste gas, make TWO stops and fly all the way down to the street.

Question #2: When Batman crashes into the art museum to save Vicki and lands exactly two feet in front of the Joker, why did he not take that one extra second to knock the guy out, let alone kill him right then and there and end it all?

Question #3: Did they really think that supermodel Kim Basinger and Michael Keaton, who she towers over and looks like the President for the Hair Club for Men, would have any kind of onscreen chemistry, whatsoever?


Sorry if this has turned into a "Batman is overrated" bashing thread but the way some people here talk about "Burton's Batman".......this shit needs to be said.
Old 08-26-04, 03:09 PM
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What about Batman Returns? That showed Penguin running for mayor and almost making it due to a sappy love story. Meanwhile he is plotting to kill batman, hanging out with once dead secretary, and planning to kidnap everyone's first born. If that doesn't shout politician I don't know what does.
Old 08-26-04, 03:26 PM
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Originally posted by Rivero


Sorry if this has turned into a "Batman is overrated" bashing thread but the way some people here talk about "Burton's Batman".......this shit needs to be said.
I feel the same way about Donner's Superman
Old 08-26-04, 05:27 PM
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I think its kinda funny that this thread was used to rip open plot holes in the movie. Well that's ok, I still love it and think its the best super-hero movie.

Oh and of course Batman was a Republican, maybe not George Bush though.
Old 08-26-04, 06:38 PM
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No, I'm pretty sure George Bush is a republican.
Old 08-26-04, 07:18 PM
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Two-Face voted for Nader.

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