OldBoy

I just didn't quite get the end. I got that Robert DeNiro was the devil, but not quite sure about the whole why Angel was Johnny and why he was manipulated and all that. And was it true that he slept with his daughter (Lisa Bonet) if I am not mistaken because Johnny was her father! Please help the confusion. Thanks.

Hokeyboy

Johnny Favorite ("Handsome" was that other movie) was a singer who sold his soul to the devil for fame. He was shipped over to Europe for WWII and came back all screwed-up. His girlfriend and her father, both Satanists, picked him up at the mental hospital and took him to Time Square, where they lured a soldier away, sacrificed him to the devil, and Johnny ate his heart. They did this to steal the soldier's soul and allow him to skip out on his deal with the devil.

The soldier was Harry Angel. Favorite assumed Angel's identity, unaware of his past as Johnny Favorite or of his deal with the devil. But Lucifer wasn't fooled. He sent Harry on a fool's errand to locate the whereabouts of Johnny Favorite, and guided Harry into slaughtering everyone he questioned.

Yes, Lisa Bonet was his daughter. And his grandson -- Bonet's son -- was fathered by Satan himself! (Bonet describes her child's father as a mysterious force who came to her during a voodoo cermony -- the "**** of a lifetime".) The giveaway, of course, is that haunting final shot.

I think that sums it up pretty well, no?

OldBoy

yes, i figured the kid was satan's spawn.

so why did the devil put Johnny through all the motions anyway? just to f*** with him and have Harry aka Johnny come to the truth all by himself and give him the ultimate mind f*** and thus give the devil his due...and that is essentially what the whole movie is about?

what was the reasoning for killing everyone? fowler, toots, margaret (who was the girlfriend, right?)...it wasn't just to get busted by the cops and eventually rot in jail and thus go to hell, was it? the devil figuring that that kinda torture "the real world" would be satisfaction as well.

am i kinda getting it?

OldBoy

huh? i am not sure that first sentence is english...what are you trying to say? seriously...

Rival11

Take this as a threadcrap if you want, but I was little confused at the end as well but only because this movie bored me to shit.

I got the whole sacrafice thing but I didn't catch on to some of the details mentioned already by Matt.

OldBoy

why would you think that is a threadcrap? that is your opinion and totally legit. i don't know why people think that opinions are considered threadcraps if they don't like the movie being discussed. this society/forum has gotten to lighten up on the PC ways of thinking...

Hokeyboy

-notrolls-

OldBoy

matt m...what about some other answers to my questions...

Hokeyboy

Please... call me Betty.

Anyway, (???) The Devil knew exactly where Johnny was the entire time. The way I see it, you're right on the money when you said that he wanted to deliver the ultimate mind-fork to Johnny, like when you're dreaming at night, and the dream slowly turns into a nightmare, and the nightmare in fact turns out to be real, and reality was the dream. Shocking. Scandalous. Groiny.

Killing everybody along the way just was part of Satan's plan. "Harry" thought the killer (most likely Johnny) was always one step behind him, but he was only (literally) running from himself. Also notice that everybody Johnny killed (his soul belonged to Satan, so Lucifer did have some leeway over him) was someone associated with the Devil in one way or another. Except for Toots, who was simply a voodoo practioner, everyone else was either a Devil worshipper, accomplice, or lover.

I think you've got it.

OldBoy

ahhhhhhhh!!! tanks for the answers, Betty! still i was hoping the movie were a little better. and for a SE DVD i thought it was rather on the weak side. i mean the interview with mickey was ok and surreal, but it was otherwise pretty lacking eh!

Hokeyboy

What makes the movie great (to me), other than the twist, is Alan Parker's direction, Bonet's lusciousness, the cinematography and smart editing. But I am an Alan Parker whore, and why not? Watch Fame again and wonder whether or not such a gritty, streetsmart, and bitter-edged performance drama could ever be produced today.

Also Birdy.

Rival11

While I didn't like the movie as a whole, I completely agree that the direction was awesome, good call

OldBoy

about Bonet's lusciousness...when she and Mickey were "making love" was the reason she was whincing and then screaming because he was killing her or because it was her true first time and he was popping her cherry (because it also seemed so when he got mad right after and smashed the mirror)? I just got confused because when she was in the bath she seemed like innocence lost.

Hokeyboy

Well, Satan had his turn buzzing the brillo before Harry/Jonny, so it definitely wasn't her first time.

But, ignoring her Mephistophelian Manboy, who's to say she wasn't provided some serious lumber on other occasions? Remember, she described the Prince of Darkness as "the best **** she ever had" -- implying that she had been up and down Baloney Creek more than once, or perhaps had even shown off the good ol' balloon knot.

OldBoy

yes, i know she said that, but was that actually physical? or was it spiritual/mental f***? she said there was no physical presence when it happened.

Giantrobo

Another thing that made it creepy and gave it a nice style was setting it in the 50's. Since the 50's are considered such a "golden age of good things" having all this devil stuff going on was really weird.

OldBoy

I think it was actually the 40's...1943 to be exact.

Hokeyboy

No, it was well after the war... early 1950s I believe.

Troy Stiffler

Take this as a thread crap or not...

*poops on thread*

Charlie Goose

This thread makes me miss Mickey Rourke's human face.

Solid Snake

OH scott1598...why won't you stop asking so many questions. There are more questions from him than from 20 of us combined.

brayzie

I just saw this movie. Just a great film. The music, atmosphere, and the way it was shot reminded me a lot of Jacob's Ladder.

I'm a little confused on the plot though:

Johnny Favorite sold his soul to the devil to become a famous singer. Then, to get out of the deal and fool the devil, he killed a young soldier in order to steal his soul.
Problem is Johnny got drafted, got injured overseas, and when he came back, was in a coma briefly, came out of it with amnesia, and at some point truly believed he was Harold Angel, and didn't know who he really was.

If he got amnesia, and Margaret and her father got him out of the hospital, why did they just let him go wandering in New York? I didn't understand that part.
And when he stole the soul of the soldier, did he still look the same? If not, why doesn't Margaret or anyone else recognize him as Johnny? In the flashback scene, you see enough of the soldier, the real Harold Angel, to see he looks nothing like Mickey Rourke.

The rumor was that Johnny Favorite was disfigured and had reconstructive surgery on his face. That would explain having a new face, but could they make a disfigured person in the 40s/50s really look like a young Mickey Rourke? That's a bit of a stretch.
Plus, I'm assuming that Margaret and her rich father paid for it. Again, why doesn't Margaret recognize him. Surely she would have seen his new face.
And supposedly, because Johnny had amnesia, they brought him to the scene of the crime where he abducted the soldier, in order to jog his memory. And he just walked away...an eventually they lost track of him, and he eventually "remembered" that he was Harry Angel, WWII vet and became a private eye.
Why would his fiancee and her father, who spent all this money trying to help Johnny, bring him to a location, only to let him just slowly walk away? That made no sense.

At some point Margaret's father says that Johnny had to steal the soul of someone the same age as him. Harry and Johnny have the same birthday. But later on, it's said that Johnny and Toots go into a crowd to pick out the victim. How could they have pulled some random AND have them have the same exact birthdate?

Daiapolon

They wanted Johnny safe and far away from the Devil. That's why they picked him from the hospital and just released him in a very crowded place, Times Square --- the last place where the young soldier (the REAL Harold "Harry" Angel) was chosen for the ritual.
They didn't want to know anything about the new face and the new identity, however. That's because they were afraid the Devil would found it from them.
It was a ruse.

We can pretend that in the Angel Heart universe, surgery procedures were good enough and ahead in the Forties.

He was bandaged. And they did NOT see his new face --- it was done on purpose. Read above.

He had the memories and the personality of Harry Angel, and the "surface" soul aura. That's why the Devil did not detect him for twelve years.
ANYWAY he remembered that it wasn't his original (Harry Angel's) face, I suppose. The Mickey Rourke face is supposed to be a totally new face, not Johnny's or Harry's.

Giantrobo

Daiapolon? I remember that Japanese Robot cartoon from the 70's!

Daiapolon

Truly?! Great. I'm a huge fan and expert.