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Spider-Man 2 discussion: Spoilers Spoilers Spoilers!!!

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Spider-Man 2 discussion: Spoilers Spoilers Spoilers!!!

Old 06-30-04, 03:10 AM
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Spider-Man 2 discussion: Spoilers Spoilers Spoilers!!!

I saw it, and spoilers below, so stop reading now if you haven't seen it yet.

I figure using spoiler tags gets old in the "review" threads, so perhaps this will make for discussion of this fine film easier for all who have seen the film and want to dispense with spoiler tags...













As I stated in my review, the CGI of the fight scenes between Spidey and Doc Ock felt like the same quality from the Burly Brawl in The Matrix Reloaded, so while the action was fast and furious, it wasn't 100% convincing. But it serviced the story well enough, so I can look past it.

So, exactly how many people know what Spider-Man looks like? A train-full, that's how many. That scene actually choked me up a little when the 2 little kids said they wouldn't tell and handed Peter his mask.

The amazing shot of MJ finally seeing the real Peter for first time in the 3rd act also got to me. I had moist eyes for the rest of the film after that. Peter's willing sacrifice of not letting anyone get close to him, even after MJ knows was touching, but MJ's decision on her wedding day makes for a much more complex life ahead for Peter.

So now Harry knows the truth, but what will he do with his father's hardware/toys?

Dr. Connor makes an one-armed appearance, laying the seeds for the Lizard, perhaps, in a future sequel.

Doc Ock was sort of given the short-shrift in development, but there's enough to flesh out the good Doc from the bad Doc that this was a minor issue considering how much was put into Peter's troubles with accepting Spider-Man fully into his life. Doc Ock's arms and their heads reminded me of the Squiddies from The Matrix films as well.

The 1st act has many fun little laughs at Peter's expense, and Sam Raimi tosses in a few homages to boot. Stan Lee performs a heroic act, pulling someone out of harm's way in a quick scene. Bruce Campbell gets to act snooty to Peter at the play. JJ Jameson was hilarious, he practically stole every scene he was in.

Tobey Maguire appear to be in "Seabisquit" shape in many scenes, I doubt he's able to put on weight/muscle as quickly as the shooting schedule dictated, but he was in fine form. In the 3rd act, when there's a big close-up of Doc Ock's face, and then Peter's face, they reverse the footage for Peter's face because Tobey's scar on his right cheek shows up on his left cheek in the quick shot. I wonder how that happens.

Kirsten Dunst looked sort of ragged in the early scenes, but came on strong for the last half of the film.

I found many similarities between this film and Superman II in how they handle each hero's desire for a normal life, giving up their powers (by Krytonite chamber, or by psychosomatic stress) and then dealing with the repurcussions of not being true to who they are, but in the end, they heed to call to duty, even if it means giving up their dreams for the greater good by pushing their personal needs in service of helping others in need or making things right.
Old 06-30-04, 03:35 AM
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For me, the Christfigure Spiderman being passed backwards on the train, and the last exchange in the apartment with Mary Jane made the movie for me. It honestly took it from the realm of popcorn film into what I think should be a legit Oscar contender for best picture. And you'll never convince me that there is a better directing job than Raimi this year. He IS the franchise and for us long time fans, what a beautiful thing to see him get this ride on the mountain top.
Old 06-30-04, 03:39 AM
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It's all about the Willem Dafoe!
Old 06-30-04, 03:54 AM
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wow. this was an absolutely incredible film. waaay better than the first one and right up there with the best superhero movies ever made. right quick, some positive things:

-- i was glad to see that they brought the mj/peter relationship to a satisfying resolution now rather than wait for the third movie. even though some may say it ruins the character, i disagree.

--i thought the special effects were better this time, particularly because most of the scenes were in daylight.

--the action scenes were much better than they were in the first one. the train sequence was fantastic.

--i loved all of the homages to the comic books, especially the costume in the trash can.
Old 06-30-04, 03:57 AM
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I went with a group of my buds and the more we talked about it on the way home the less I liked it. The story really bogged the first one down and this one was even worse in that respect.

Doc Ock was great and maybe I don't like it as much since I just wanted more of him.

With all the stuff left open for the next film I hope it's an all out action film.
Old 06-30-04, 04:08 AM
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Saw this earlier, movie had me rolling, for something that wasn't a comedy it was just hilarious. But as for the plot and all, very well done, Doc Oc came off more as a subplot and it worked perfectly leaving the stage for the real drama of Peter's life going down the toliet.
Old 06-30-04, 06:17 AM
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Sam Raimi did an absolutely terrible job. I mean all the parts were there, good action, decent acting, good premise, and Raimi somehow managed to butcher it. He did a much better job with the first one where he shot for the realm of fun popcorn flick, but this time his repeated attempts for drama simply turned into extreme melodrama.

The film had no rhythm or pacing whatsoever. He either drug his feet in some scenes just to grind his emotions into the viewer, or he sped through things he didn't want to bother with(aka doc oc). I was so freaking bored by the end I just wanted to go to bed and go to sleep.

Look as I said the basic premise was good... spidey coming to grips with being spiderman. But I really didn't need to spend about hour seeing him get crapped on to get there. Nor did I think the scenes between him and MJ early on were smooth at all... they seemed jilted as hell, and to be honest something was very wrong with the beautiful Ms. Durst. They didn't seem to tell her what they wanted(or maybe she couldn't do it), and she just came off as scatterbrained. Add on to that fact the embarrasing makeup job someone did on her(Guess slightly round women can't be adults... better throw on more makeup until she looks like shes thin(and dead)), and I felt that nothing really developed between them in the movie until the last scene. In fact nothing really happened in the first hour and a half in the movie. I had that feeling so badly, that the last scene lost most of its effect.... even though it should have been so right. Welcome to bad directing I guess. The movie felt like a patchwork put together with no though of the overall picture.

Overall the movie just needed serious editing.... or perhaps more particularly a director who has some idea of what movie pacing is. The action more than made up for it though... however the fact that it was daylight made the CG far more obvious for me. I could see the rubbery look and CGish outline at almost every moment.... which is sad because I so wanted to lose myself in those scenes. All the tricks spidey played while fighting Doc Oc were just beautiful. I especially liked where he chucked the part of the clock back up at him. However, I do have to add... why was the good doctor completely ignored? His back story made no sense, even for silly science, "But doctor... couldn't the arms take over your mind then?"; "Well sure thing, except for this tiny blue chip that could be ripped off at aaaaaaaannnnyyyyy moment." I mean his arms looked awesome, but as a character he was basically defunct.

Seriously seeing that movie made me sad. It had so much wasted potential.
Old 06-30-04, 06:33 AM
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Sam Raimi did an absolutely terrible job
what did you have and do you need a doctors signiture to obtain it?
Old 06-30-04, 06:34 AM
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RUN! SWING! FLY! to see this movie! It is what sequels SHOULD be like.

Thirty-Two fat ass thumbs up!

See it. Live it. Love it!

Andrew
Old 06-30-04, 07:07 AM
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Just saw this movie tonight, and for the most part I liked it. However, I completely hated how Spidey lost his powers just because he didn't appreciate them or feel the need for them. This has no base in the Marvel world, Spidey is Spidey because he was bit by a radioactive spider, not because he believed in himself or wanted to rescue someone. This was ridiculously lame and should not have been included in the movie. Other than that though, I was a big fan. Any other comments on Peter's unexplained loss of superpowers?
Old 06-30-04, 07:31 AM
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You guys do know there is already a thread on this film located on the same page as this thread.
Old 06-30-04, 08:24 AM
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I loved the chainsaws in the operating room scene. Raimi must have loved putting that together as a nod to Army of Dead.

I didn't have a problem with Peter's power outage being mainly from a psychosomatic standpoint because in the past 2 years, he felt like Spider-Man was overtaking him completely, and he saw how he was losing out on the "normal" things that normal guy aspired to have/want, but his fear of those close to him being used by his enemies to get to him drove him into this psychological state that sabotaged his use of his powers, thus, he lost the will to be Spider-Man, and his powers sputtered on him. I liked how Raimi framed that "Spider-Man...no more" scene, highly reminiscent of the comic book panel that inspired it.

That "my back...my back..." scene paid off in huge laughs with the crowd I was with last night. And the "It's heavy" line also gave the audience the comic relief they needed while the world was going to hell in a handbasket at the end.

Last edited by Patman; 06-30-04 at 08:31 AM.
Old 06-30-04, 10:05 AM
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BTW, anyone else feel hurtful chest pains when Aunt May told Peter that she had thrown out his childhood comic books? That hurt.
Old 06-30-04, 12:01 PM
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I saw the midnight show last night and am still reeling from how AWESOME this movie was. Every fault with the first film has been remedied in this flick. Raimi did a stellar job... each action scene was better than the last (and the Doc Ock tentacle scene, with it's Evil Dead homage was SWEET).

The ending was fantastic and really set up one sweet assed Spider-Man 3... This is easily the movie of the summer and so far, the year. A blockbuster sequel that delivers everything it promised and then some. That's it for now...I'm going to the next matinee showing!

MATT
Old 06-30-04, 12:49 PM
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I wasn't put off by James Franco's performance in this film as I was in the first film. Franco has filled out or bulked up a little in these past 2 years, and at least he was trying to give Harry some emotional weight to his pain.

Also, I could probably go all the rest of my life without needing to see Alfred Molina shirtless again.

BTW, I liked the way the opening credit provided a recap of the first film in comic book panels, which proved effective to get everyone up to speed, even if they didn't see the first film (a small subset of the audience, I would surmise). Plus Peter's heartful revelation of the day that Uncle Ben was killed, and how his personal animosity got the best of him, and turned his Aunt May into a widow, was also a strong scene that could have turned melodramatic in a comic book sense, but it felt very grounded and realistic, which is a strength of the characterizations in this film.
Old 06-30-04, 01:54 PM
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Anyone else think Aunt May is a bitch? Pete should've gave her the back hand.

I'm also baffled why he chose MJ rather than the girl who made him cake! Who would do that?!?!?
Old 06-30-04, 02:14 PM
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i would definitely choose mj.
Old 06-30-04, 02:17 PM
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While I loved the whole movie overall, it was the last ten minutes that really sold me, and they had the lowest amount of action.
The moment with Harry talking to Norman in the mirror, as I said before, cemented the fact that it was a one story series we're watching.
But more powerful than that was when MJ showed up at Peter's apartment. For the most part, I always thought Dunst underplayed MJ in the movies, including most of part two. However, once she makes the decision that she must be with him, it just seemed to magically click. "Go get em tiger," was one nice way of letting us know that she is now the MJ we know and love, but moreso than that, IMO, is the very last shot of the film in which we see a somber look on her face before fading to black. In essence, Raimi gave the whole Peter/MJ/Spider-Man conflict in a nutshell. MJ has decided that Peter is her man, but now she is realizing every time he leaves her might be the last time she ever sees her true love. Again, kudos to Raimi and his team of writers, they really belted it out of the park this time.
Old 06-30-04, 02:24 PM
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"Here comes the Spider-man..." to save summer 2004.

Superb film. It just wasn't a sequel, it was a rightful continuation. I can't believe all the stuff they included in a two hour film. Most lesser director would have taken stuff out to focus on a few things or destroy the film b/c they coudn't balance everything right. Too many great scenes, but here's my favorites (spoilers, people):

-Doc Ock. I tried to visualize how he would move and work in the film, since I'm an old-school comic geek, I tried to think of the way Ditko drew him, and tried to see it on film. Riami got it 100% right. It has to be seen to believed.
-Bruce Campbell. Ted Riami. Stan Lee. Loved their cameos.
-Chainsaw. (Nice little tease for the ED fans.)
-Harry Osborne. Franco is taking him to places I don't think the comics ever really did-emotionally.
-Spidey in the elevator.

My only real complaint (but it doesn';t effect my love or grade/review of the film):
-I wish he didn't get unmasked so much. Maybe MJ and Harry were appropiate, but not the whole bus and Ock.

Grade: A-

Compared to other Summer 2004 films I've seen:
Van Helsing: C+ Troy: B- Day After Tomorrow: C
Riddick: B- Dodgeball: C+

PS:
Some people didn't like how he was losing his power due to lack of concentration. Well, for example, I'm an artist and some of my worst work was due to various things that were distracting me, like parents, job, personal life, so I think that is incredible that they chose to go that route.

Can't wait to see it again.
Old 06-30-04, 03:20 PM
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Did anyone catch the line in the beginning from Tobey to Kirsten "Are you still in the Village?" Is that a refrence to Kirsten dropping out of M. Night Shamalan's The Village to be in Spiderman 3?
Old 06-30-04, 03:36 PM
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Originally posted by Tafellappen
Anyone else think Aunt May is a bitch? Pete should've gave her the back hand.

I'm also baffled why he chose MJ rather than the girl who made him cake! Who would do that?!?!?
Anorexic mole-girl? Yeah, who would choose Mary Jane over her?
Old 06-30-04, 03:37 PM
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Originally posted by RyoHazuki
Did anyone catch the line in the beginning from Tobey to Kirsten "Are you still in the Village?" Is that a refrence to Kirsten dropping out of M. Night Shamalan's The Village to be in Spiderman 3?
Do you mean Spider-Man 2? The village comes out next month, so I doubt it would affect filming of Spider-Man 3.
Old 06-30-04, 03:47 PM
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Some people didn't like how he was losing his power due to lack of concentration. Well, for example, I'm an artist and some of my worst work was due to various things that were distracting me, like parents, job, personal life, so I think that is incredible that they chose to go that route.
Not to mention that this was a story arc for a while. I'm glad they put it in.

On a good note. Toby introduced the film at the midnight showing at the dome in hollywood.
Old 06-30-04, 04:41 PM
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I just saw this and loved it. Second best superhero flick behind X-men 2 IMO. The action was great, I liked the story as a whole. Could have used more Doc Ock though.
Old 06-30-04, 04:47 PM
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Originally posted by majorjoe23
Anorexic mole-girl? Yeah, who would choose Mary Jane over her?
Who was that girl? Did she have any significance other than being a female companion for Peter when he was lonely? I missed her name (and the name of the actress that played her)

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