Homer: America, take a good look at your beloved candidates. They're nothing but hideous space reptiles. [unmasks them][audience gasps in terror]
Kodos: It's true, we are aliens. But what are you going to do about it? It's a two-party system; you have to vote for one of us.[murmurs]
Man1: He's right, this is a two-party system.
Man2: Well, I believe I'll vote for a third-party candidate.
Kang: Go ahead, throw your vote away.
[Kang and Kodos laugh out loud]
[Ralph Nader smashes his "Nader 04" hat]

Based on the impact the film has had THUS FAR I would say that one should look more into what areas are getting "represented" here. What I mean is this:

I see the majority of the posters here that favor Kerry are based in the so-called "democratic" states- CA, NY, IL.....or at least that is what your profiles indicate. On the contrary the Bush supporters are, again based on your profiles, in the so-called "conservative"states- TX, IA, etc...

The real impact the movie will have on its audience is still to be seen....

Pro-B

ps

Pharoh: I always thought that you were an adamant Bush supporter and a conservative. I am lost now.....

Is that humanly possible?

I don't think so.

I've never voted before but signed up after the atrocity that has been the Bush administration.

Yes, the film says the decision was made by the white house, but why do you think Moore didn't say the decision was made by Clarke?....because when you hear the decision was made by the white house you don't think of people working in the white house you think of the president

Did you even see the movie? Richard Clarke states that he did it.

Yes, it is. I can't believe that there are morons in this world that actually want to learn this the hard way. Luckyily the rest of us won't let that happen.

Does he say this on camera? I hadn't heard that.

Regardless, Rick James is right. Moore uses the term, "The Whitehouse" instead of just saying Clarke's name to imply the President made the decision.

There is no other reason not to use Clarke's name, as he is well known by now.

There is a deconstructionist documentary coming out titled "Why Michael Moore Hates America." I think it is coming out in August. It supposedly takes apart "Fahrenheit 9/11" and exposes most of the so-called "facts" that Moore has perpetrated upon so many angry leftists. On the news, it states that the documentary is being readied to act as a counter-balance against Moore's film, and that it will be positioned alongside his film at retail and rental outlets. That should be a hoot!

Morons?

Luckyily [sic] your prognostication is worse than your spelling. Thank you for adding so much to this thoughtful discussion of the film that "the rest of us" are having.

I was gonna vote for Kerry, but after seeing this pile of blatant propaganda, something that the right has been so accused of for 3 1/2 years now, I will be voting for Bush.
I feel extremely ashamed to have been part of the Democratic spin machine for so long. Going republican has made me feel as though all the dirt has finally come off of me after countless showers.
yuck, what a dirty party the democrats are. Pond scum. Blech!

Wait. You think that about Democrats???

Have fun with the Repubs. Do some research and we'll see you in a few months.

My only hope is that Bush himself does the voiceover. I'd see it for the mispronunciations alone.

Still Voting for Bush...... Sorry but if Moore did an unbiased movie.... then maybe i would have been more open minded but he just had an agenda....


Sorry but when Moore's "facts" are put out like that... he has been putting America down since day 1.

Back this up with something and it will be more effective. What are your reasons for hating Kerry?

Moore laid out a whole laundry list of reasons to dislike and distrust Bush in this film. What evidence (be specific) do you have against Kerry?

I ask because I am genuinely interested. All I ever read here is that Kerry is worse but nobody ever says why. That isn't good enough.

Again, please explain which "facts" trouble you. If you lay them out intelligently, then we can actually discuss them. Blanket statements of disbelief don't really accomplish much.

Let's attempt to raise the level of discussion here to actual debate.

It's very easy to dismiss things because somebody had an agenda. It is much harder to disect them and reveal the agenda to people. Everyone in life has an agenda, but this doesn't mean everyone lies. The truth is out there if you search for it.

here are some facts... its what he said on the daily show....

"This movie is my opinion....it may be right, and it may be wrong, but it is my opinion and I think it's the right one. I'm not trying to show all sides, i'm trying to get my point of view across - and you are free to agree or disagree with it. Yes it is biased, that is a given. But so is the right-wing agenda that this movie seeks to counter."

Yes, but you left out what Moore also said - he said that the FACTS presented in his film are TRUE and he will defend them. He said when something is stated as a fact, it is indeed a documented fact. He had three fact checking companies and legal counsel assigned to the movie to make sure the documentation he presented was correct.

There's a "Facts Archive" over on Michael Moore's site where he provides sources for statements in the film...
http://www.michaelmoore.com/words/la...p?archive=show

Here are some more facts on why his movie didnt change my decision.... courtesy from mikehunt here on dvd talk. He got it from the ABCnews website.

http://abcnews.go.com/sections/This...re040620-1.html

Quoted from the ABCNEWS website:

MOORE: No, they were on charter flights. Once the airspace opened for commercial flights, they hadn't opened for the charter flights. And so the charter flights that picked up the bin Ladens around the country, that went to the various cities — this was all assisted by the White House, which really should be the real focus of this.

STEPHANOPOULOS: Well, but Richard Clarke, who's probably at the top of the White House enemy list, says that it was his decision, he takes responsibility for it. He doesn't think it was a mistake.

Another Quote from the ABCNEWS website:

STEPHANOPOULOS: You said you have one retired FBI agent in the movie, Jack Cloonan, I think his name is. But here's the 9/11 commission report. It says, "The FBI has concluded that nobody was allowed to depart on these six flights that the FBI wanted to interview in connection with the 9/11 attacks, or who the FBI later concluded had any involvement in those attacks. To date, we have uncovered no evidence to contradict those conclusions." Do you have any reason to doubt the credibility of the 9/11 commission?

Another Quote from the ABCNEWS website:

Congressman Flap

Stephanopoulos also asked Moore about a scene involving Rep. Mark Kennedy, R-Minn.

STEPHANOPOULOS: You have a scene when you're up on Capitol Hill encountering members of Congress, asking them if they would ask their sons and daughters to enlist … in the military. And one of those members of Congress who appears in the trailer, Mark Kennedy, said you left out what he told you, which is that he has two nephews serving in the military, one in Afghanistan. And he went on to say that, "Michael Moore doesn't always give the whole truth. He's a master of the misleading."

MOORE: Well, at the time, when we interviewed him, he didn't have any family members in Afghanistan. And when he saw the trailer for this movie, he issued a report to the press saying that he said that he had a kid in—

STEPHANOPOULOS: He said he told you he had two nephews.

MOORE: … No, he didn't. And we released the transcript and we put it on our Web site. This is what I mean by our war room. Any time a guy like this comes along and says, "I told him I had two nephews and one was going to Iraq and one was going to Afghanistan," he's lying. And I've got the raw footage and the transcript to prove it. So any time these Republicans come at me like this, this is exactly what they're going to get. And people can go to my Web site and read the transcript and read the truth. What he just said there, what you just quoted, is not true.

This Week followed up with the office of Rep. Kennedy. He did have two nephews in the military, but neither served in Iraq. Kennedy's staff agrees that Moore's Website is accurate but insists the movie version is misleading. In the film, Moore says, "Congressman, I'm trying to get members of Congress to get their kids to enlist in the Army and go over to Iraq." But, from the transcript, here's the rest:

MOORE: Is there any way you could help me with that?

KENNEDY: How would I help you?

MOORE: Pass it out to other members of Congress.

KENNEDY: I'd be happy to — especially those who voted for the war. I have a nephew on his way to Afghanistan.

My question is what, "What does Kerry stand for?".

My answer is "Hopefully the opposite as Bush...as often as possible."

He stands for thoughtful discussions of the issues...of which there are always two sides. I suppose that makes him a flip flopper.

He stands for the rights of the common man, not some neo-con trickle down wet dream.

He stands for moderation in foreign policy..."walking softly" if you will.

He stands for the rights of minorities, women, and gay people to be equal partners in our great democracy.

He stands for war as a last possible resort...because he's been there.

He stands for our government paying its way now...not leaving massive debt for our kids from optional wars, spending orgies, and tax cuts for the wealthy.

He stands for health care as a basic human right.

He is everything Bush isn't (except rich), which sounds just about perfect to me, and I can't wait to vote for him.

Thanks for asking.

Did you know that he voted for the war in Iraq as well?

He is very similar to Bush.

Here's my question:

What is it with repubs and nuance?

Do you really think it was a one sentence document that he voted for? Check here if "for war", check here if "against"?

He voted to give the president the authority to declare war...to give him leverage with the U.N.

Kerry, along with most democrats was duped by a lying administration...which is almost as bad as voting for a BS war in my mind and is my one major beef with the man.