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The Official - I've actually Seen Farenheit 9/11 and want to talk about THE MOVIE

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The Official - I've actually Seen Farenheit 9/11 and want to talk about THE MOVIE

Old 06-27-04, 11:51 PM
  #126  
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I see you didn't respond to CRM114's remark about Colin Powell statement, Iraq is no threat. Who's piano are you listening to?

Why did Bush continue sitting in that classroom? It's called INCOMPETENCE!

Why would he replay the biased right wing media footage that everyone's accustomed to?!?!? No media outlet has shown Bush sit in the classroom before this? WHY!!?!?

>>>this movie played its audience like a piano and from the looks of it, most of you had the works of Motzart played all over you while you watched this.<<<<

No more than Bush played us like a piano by getting more than half of this country to "THINK" it's a good idea to go to Iraq.

If you think we're over there for any other reason than oil YOU ARE NAIVE.

Now watch this drive! You are my base! The have and the have mores!
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Old 06-28-04, 12:15 AM
  #127  
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After viewing F911 I feel like I'm in a certain Mini series.


1. The old man got a visit from the FBI for calling Bush an a**hole. Could he be a scientist?

2. After viewing the film I got a flyer to attend a webcast to unseat the enemy. I'm afraid to go.. Will someone from the government/police be there "posing" as an activist and put me on a list or something? Will the FBI visit me for going to an organized gathering?

3. Watching TV all weekend I don't see much coverage/debates about this film.. Who has taken over the media?

4. I'm afraid to put a Kerry sticker on my bumper I think I'll be percieved as a scientist...

Yeah you better be scared.. REAL SCARED!
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Old 06-28-04, 03:52 AM
  #128  
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What was with Moore blaming Fox news for stealing the election from Gore?
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Old 06-28-04, 04:41 AM
  #129  
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Originally posted by RyoHazuki
I do agree that the point the film was trying to make. However showing multiple scenes of this woman crying was, I thought, manipulative. I wouldn't have minded seeing it once but it went on too long.
It's only manipulative if Moore is telling the woman what to say or how to act. He didn't do that...in fact, the strength of a good 50% of this film is that Moore rarely comments on much (at least not as much as his previous films) - he lets the footage speak for itself.

Off topic, is anyone else thinking how entertaining the Oscars could be next year - assuming both Passion of the Christ and this movie get nominations? I agree with one of the earlier posters - these are the only two films I've seen in 2004 that I would give "A" ratings to.
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Old 06-28-04, 07:01 AM
  #130  
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Propaganda:

I see your point about the blacked out 9/11 images, but any serious student of the film medium will tell you that the images you don't see are often more powerful than those you do. The blacked out 9/11 images left the visuals to the audience's imagination, and the sound (at least in my theater) was powerful and gut wrenching...which was the point, I'm sure. Plus it was the lead in to the film, so implying that it was glossed over is IMO a red herring.

The apologists for the Saudi flights miss the point as well. It doesn't matter whether the decision was made by Clarke or Bush himself. The point is that these people had direct access to seriously high levels of our government, which is IMO a bit chilling. Do you think the whitehouse would answer your call? It's the dollar...the only vote that matters.

I thought the scenes with the lady who was ardently pro-military and felt betrayed were VERY effective, but maybe that's just because I can relate. I cannot even voice the hostility that I felt toward the woman who approached her at the Whitehouse, and those people are out there. They like to call themselves "compassionate conservatives". I think I might even be related to a few. They read the Washington Post, watch Fox News, and listen to talk radio, and they simply cannot fathom the idea that Bush (who God himself apparently wants to be president) would ever mislead them for financial or political gain. Anyway, those scenes didn't feel at all like propaganda to me...they felt like a documentary in the traditional sense.

I'll be honest. I was a bit put off by the kite flying scene. I understand that it was there to illustrate the point that Iraq was a relatively stable place proir to our bombing the dogshit out of it, but the whole sunshine and flowers theme was a bit over the top IMO and surely made the audience feel manipulated. I know I did. In other words, I don't disagree with his point, but I thought he could have been much more effective in making it.

I thought he would have been much better served illustrating the differences between the administration rhetoric on their reasons for invading before the WMD search and after. I know MM illustrated the prewar posturing pretty well, but he didn't follow up with the blatant flip-flop to "liberating those poor people" in a way that was effective for me. Plus, that skit that Bush did of himself searching for WMDs under the couch was pure, unused gold. I know it would have been out of context, as it was from the press dinner, but so was the "haves and have mores" scene.

Bottom line: Yes, the film is skewed...but no more so than Fox News or talk radio, both of which will affect a much broader audience. I fear for my country and for myself (given my profession), but this film gives me a bit of hope.

Last edited by chess; 06-28-04 at 07:10 AM.
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Old 06-28-04, 08:13 AM
  #131  
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My pictures I took of opening night made michaelmoore.com

Look on the photo page for the Orange County: Sold Out! | The Line | The Voter Registration
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Old 06-28-04, 10:01 AM
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After seeing the movie, I'm now convinced that Michael Moore must sit in front of a mirror when he masturbates.
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Old 06-28-04, 10:34 AM
  #133  
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Originally posted by Tafellappen
After seeing the movie, I'm now convinced that Michael Moore must sit in front of a mirror when he masturbates.
Doesn't everybody?
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Old 06-28-04, 11:04 AM
  #134  
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Originally posted by MadPervert
3. Watching TV all weekend I don't see much coverage/debates about this film.. Who has taken over the media?[/B]
The media spent most of the week leading up to the movie debating the film. I think once the vocal critics realized they were helping promote the film, they decided that maybe if they stop talking about it, it will go away.
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Old 06-28-04, 11:07 AM
  #135  
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Originally posted by Tafellappen
After seeing the movie, I'm now convinced that Michael Moore must sit in front of a mirror when he masturbates.
What do you sit in front of? Fox News?

Your take is very interesting, given that he appears far less in this film than he did in his others...at least by my recollection. I'm pretty sure you were "convinced" about MM long before you saw the film, assuming that you actually did. I'm guessing that you got it from Fox News...possibly while masturbating to war footage.
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Old 06-28-04, 11:33 AM
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Originally posted by Chrisedge
My pictures I took of opening night made michaelmoore.com

Look on the photo page for the Orange County: Sold Out! | The Line | The Voter Registration
Chrisedge, those are some of the better shots on the whole site. Very nice work! And though I don't know if you are related to the voter registration work, but that was a great shot and made me very glad to see.

I remember the 1992 election was heavily influenced in Pennsylvania by the voter registration drives at theatres showing Bob Roberts - and I imagine this film could have a similar effect on the participation rate at the polls. Anyway, well done.

Doskoro.
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Old 06-28-04, 11:36 AM
  #137  
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Originally posted by docF94
Chrisedge, those are some of the better shots on the whole site. Very nice work! And though I don't know if you are related to the voter registration work, but that was a great shot and made me very glad to see.
Nope, didn't have anything to do with the registration. (Just took the pictures)

It was both exciting and disapointing to see the registration action. Exciting in the fact that a movie can drive out so many people to show up and get excited about voting, and yet disapointing for the same reasons and so many people not registered that should be.
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Old 06-28-04, 04:35 PM
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I thought the movie was pretty good, but things can be made to look a certain way through editing and taking countless hours of footage. For me I wish he had at least mentioned another issue: It is all about STEM CELL RESEARCH. Terrorism kills almost no one compared to heart disease, cancer, obesity, etc. We can save millions with real research to cure everyone. Bush is against it on religious reasons alone which ends all credibility with anyone that has a working brain and can think ahead. Most Republicans in the Senate and House are OPENLY in support of stem cell research. There is no controversy or debate with anyone who reads the facts. The next time anyone has a family member in horrible health will wonder "could we have saved them if we had been working on research fully with our best people this whole time?" 2 years WASTED already and with Bush re-elected 4 more go down the drain. You want to save lives, you do THIS. Kerry says he will put stem cell research into effect THE DAY he reaches office. That ends everything for me. There is no other issue on the spectrum that will help and effect more people in the long run. Just think about it.
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Old 06-28-04, 05:34 PM
  #139  
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Saw it and loved it. 4/4
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Old 06-28-04, 05:38 PM
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Originally posted by Shannon Nutt
It's only manipulative if Moore is telling the woman what to say or how to act. He didn't do that...in fact, the strength of a good 50% of this film is that Moore rarely comments on much (at least not as much as his previous films) - he lets the footage speak for itself.
Except for that wonderful scene when he tells us what Bush is thinking.
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Old 06-28-04, 06:39 PM
  #141  
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Originally posted by RyoHazuki
Except for that wonderful scene when he tells us what Bush is thinking.
Ryo....

I respect your opinion however....

not in a movie, on national TV you are told every single day what the German chancellor "thinks" about the war, you WERE told every single day what Asnar and Spain were thinking about the war...until he got booted out of office by the new Socialist government; you are told what Italy "thinks" about the war; you are told how the entire Dutch nation "supports" the war; you are told that the Turkish are a pillar of stability in the Balkan region and they support the war on terror YET this president did in a few years to the modern muslims/ataturks in Turkey what islamist extremists have been wanting to achieve since 1986......and so on and so on.....


To sum it all up, all of the "Anti-Americanism" the conservatives are so "concerned" with is a direct product of one man' s foreign policy. Bush gave more power to the socialists in Europe than they have ever dreamed for...not because people hate America as this is how most of the conservatives want to picture the world community to you. But BECAUSE people around the world, just like people right here in the US, disagree with the "policy" of one man's administration which has gone to war and denied anyone that happens to disagree with them....only so they could generate more and more profits.

That's all.....

Pro-B

Last edited by pro-bassoonist; 06-28-04 at 09:16 PM.
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Old 06-28-04, 07:13 PM
  #142  
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I finally was able to see the movie this afternoon, after a couple of days of sellouts. If we hadn't reserved seats beforehand, it might have been tough -- the theater was pretty packed, and from what I could tell it was a pretty sympathetic crowd.

Although there were a few places that I thought were a little questionable (the Iraqis happily playing and flying a kite seemed a little over the top) I thought it was very effective, and at first glance there didn't seem to be all that much that you could pick apart. On the other hand, there wasn't anything in particular that I had never heard before, but he did a good job of synthesizing it into a (mostly) coherent whole. Although he left some things out (unavoidable) the main thing I felt was relief. He was voicing so many things that I have been feeling since the 2000 elections -- things that so many people seemed to be willing to turn a blind eye to. I hope this film will serve to remind people of just what has been going on in the last four years.
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Old 06-28-04, 07:53 PM
  #143  
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Originally posted by chess
What do you sit in front of? Fox News?
Nope, I actually dislike Fox News. I'd rather watch my local news ("Your family may already be dead! More at 11!") than it any day.

Your take is very interesting, given that he appears far less in this film than he did in his others...at least by my recollection.
I have no problem with the screen time he had in the film.

I'm pretty sure you were "convinced" about MM long before you saw the film, assuming that you actually did.
I personally think that he's funny and interesting when he's interviewed. I've also enjoyed a lot of his film and television work. As a matter of fact, I think I'm the only person that liked Canadian Bacon.

I did see the film yesterday at 7:35pm in a packed theater, in case you were still wondering.

I'm guessing that you got it from Fox News...possibly while masturbating to war footage.
I am actually against the war. Although I have masturbated while watching television before, it's been to images of Jennifer Aniston and not to the gruesome images of war.

My problem with the film is that it's propaganda (which isn't necessarily a bad thing), but it's not very good propaganda. It lacks focus, is too long, and was IMHO not very entertaining. At least Reifenstahl made her propaganda nice to look at. Rather than elevating public debate, Moore's lowering it. There are a lot of good reasons why Bush shouldn't be reelected, but giving special treatment to Sauds and being a poor public speaker aren't them.

Also, if you're going to disagree with me, please don't try to paint a certain picture of me to discredit my opinion. Not everyone who disliked the film is some conservative warhawk.
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Old 06-28-04, 08:07 PM
  #144  
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Saw this movie earlier today at 2:30, still filling a good crowd. I'm glad I finally found a buddy of mine to go with, it's hard talking somebody into seeing a documentary. I love it when movies go out there and send a message. Some of F911 did very well, and some didn't. I think with all Michael Moore movies you have to take it with a grain of salt, and look at the whole picture as opposed to bits and pieces. The guy we have in the White House is probably not the right person to have running the country.

The introduction about the election was a great way to start. It included Moore's famous 'connections' gimmick. He linked the re-count and mis-counting to Bush and his accociates, but I don't think there was enough solid facts shown to prove that he did do it. He probably should've thrown in an interview there. Although I still do think, he is connected to that, it makes sense.

The footage of him in the classroom was suprising for me to see, was that ever put on the news? Well of course he sits there, how were most people reacting when the attacks happened? They were shocked! I'd think sitting there a couple minutes or so would've been understandable, but seven, you could tell Bush was freaked.

I agree with what's been said that it wasn't as solid as it could've been. Personally, I think it spent too much time on the Bin Laden affair. Showing you all of this information, but it didn't seem to go anywhere with it, he lost me for a few minutes there.

There was a lot of War/Soldier/Family footage that I thought was used quite well. The mother was a powerful thing to see. And the woman outside the whitehouse, what was she thinking?

The military recruiters trying to get another guy in like a telemarketer really ticked me off. As one of the kids said, they come to the highschool lunch rooms; one of them comes to mine every other week. But there's a good point made in the movie, there's not a lot of wealthy, power-family kids being shipped off. I appreciated the Moore-esque, throw it back in their faces on the street bit, and wasn't suprised with their reactions.

The footage of Dubya speaking was a humorous break, but sometimes overused. I thought the ending with the "Fool Me Once..." MM: We Won't Be; was a great way to finish the film, and left many in the theater clapping. At a 2:30 Monday show nontheless!

Overall, I agree in saying that there's a lot more he could've used, and probably should've; but his movie still makes it's point. Bush really isn't the man for the job. In the end, I think Bowling was a little better, but F911 is still a movie that needs to be seen. Moore-hater or not. 9/10
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Old 06-28-04, 09:25 PM
  #145  
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Saw it this afternoon after work,was surprised at the amount of things it covered,thought it was a great movie,the theatre was packed and the film recieved a standing ovation at the end that lasted over a minute,i have never before saw that in my entire life(and i go to a lot of movies and have been doing so for over 35 years)
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Old 06-28-04, 10:24 PM
  #146  
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Originally posted by johnglad
I thought the movie was pretty good, but things can be made to look a certain way through editing and taking countless hours of footage. For me I wish he had at least mentioned another issue: It is all about STEM CELL RESEARCH. Terrorism kills almost no one compared to heart disease, cancer, obesity, etc. We can save millions with real research to cure everyone. Bush is against it on religious reasons alone which ends all credibility with anyone that has a working brain and can think ahead. Most Republicans in the Senate and House are OPENLY in support of stem cell research. There is no controversy or debate with anyone who reads the facts. The next time anyone has a family member in horrible health will wonder "could we have saved them if we had been working on research fully with our best people this whole time?" 2 years WASTED already and with Bush re-elected 4 more go down the drain. You want to save lives, you do THIS. Kerry says he will put stem cell research into effect THE DAY he reaches office. That ends everything for me. There is no other issue on the spectrum that will help and effect more people in the long run. Just think about it.
The most ridiculous thing about the ban on further funding of stem cell research (besides the moronic lack of scientific understanding) is that they don't do anything about all the unborn embryos being wasted in the fertility clinics. They won't go after the people trying to create one baby and "slaughtering" so many potential fetuses in the process because it would cause an uproar - it shows how few ideals they really have and that it is all about pandering and posturing.
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Old 06-28-04, 11:35 PM
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Originally posted by lucasorion
The most ridiculous thing about the ban on further funding of stem cell research (besides the moronic lack of scientific understanding) is that they don't do anything about all the unborn embryos being wasted in the fertility clinics. They won't go after the people trying to create one baby and "slaughtering" so many potential fetuses in the process because it would cause an uproar - it shows how few ideals they really have and that it is all about pandering and posturing.


Pro-B
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Old 06-29-04, 09:13 AM
  #148  
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Originally posted by RyoHazuki
What was with Moore blaming Fox news for stealing the election from Gore?
John Ellis, George W. Bush's first cousin, was running the political desk of Fox News during the 2000 election. When the tabulations for Florida came up, all of the other networks claimed that Gore won Florida - but Fox News, which IIRC was the last to post for the state, claimed Bush won, and all the other networks began to change their projections. That call was made by Ellis. Add to that the fact that Jeb Bush, George's brother, was governor of Florida, and things begin to smell.

Here's an actual quote by John Ellis: "I am loyal to my cousin, and I put that loyalty ahead of my loyalty to anyone else outside my immediate family."

Here's a column with some information on John Ellis.
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Old 06-29-04, 09:14 AM
  #149  
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So yeah! How about the movie, huh? Huh?

Would-be thread hijackers could stand to simmer down a bit.

I watched the film again for a bit the other night, this time with a much more responsive audience. It's even better.
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Old 06-29-04, 09:21 AM
  #150  
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Michael Moore has divided this forum as it has never been divided before,I mean its true that we argue about everything to do with every aspect of movies,dvds and everything else under the sun,but nothing gets the forum to split into such polarized factions and engage in heated debates(not even a star wars-Lucas thread lol) as a good old Michael Moore thread,can long standing friendships that have been nurtured in the forum over the years survive these various Michael Moore threads lol

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