why do people not like Episode VI?
05-24-04, 12:11 AM
#51
DVD Talk Gold Edition
what qualites about AOTC did you find lacking?
any specific scenes or actions that you felt were out of character or tonally off?
any story elements that you felt were poorly handled?
just curious
any specific scenes or actions that you felt were out of character or tonally off?
any story elements that you felt were poorly handled?
just curious
05-24-04, 10:57 AM
#52
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The list has some merit, but then it also shows that whoever wrote it has no insight or knowledge about some of the SW/Lucas universe.
THe shuttle, the whole reason for recycling this is becasue it was so cool and we only got to see it for a breif second in TESB.
The primatives winning the battle, ever hear of vietnam? Or the American revolution? Or the Goths and Romans? This is something that has repeated itself through history. I will give him that they seemed to construct these over night, although perhaps they were amassing arms to attack anyway.
Ewoks - while I hate them, there are flashes of their brutallity, sadly not enough to endure them to me.
I could go on, but this is enough of my SW geekiness for now.
THe shuttle, the whole reason for recycling this is becasue it was so cool and we only got to see it for a breif second in TESB.
The primatives winning the battle, ever hear of vietnam? Or the American revolution? Or the Goths and Romans? This is something that has repeated itself through history. I will give him that they seemed to construct these over night, although perhaps they were amassing arms to attack anyway.
Ewoks - while I hate them, there are flashes of their brutallity, sadly not enough to endure them to me.
I could go on, but this is enough of my SW geekiness for now.
05-24-04, 11:07 AM
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Originally posted by Cusm
THe shuttle, the whole reason for recycling this is becasue it was so cool and we only got to see it for a breif second in TESB.
THe shuttle, the whole reason for recycling this is becasue it was so cool and we only got to see it for a breif second in TESB.
05-24-04, 11:08 AM
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Originally posted by Rogue588
ROtJ was friggin' Citizen Kane, 2001 & [insert name of favourite, classic film here] all rolled into one compared to AOtC.
For me it would be ESB, SW, ROtJ, tPM, the Ewok TV movies, the Droids/Ewok cartoons, the Holiday Special, ANY Kenner SW commercial.....and then AOtC [only cuz i'd have to].
ROtJ was friggin' Citizen Kane, 2001 & [insert name of favourite, classic film here] all rolled into one compared to AOtC.
For me it would be ESB, SW, ROtJ, tPM, the Ewok TV movies, the Droids/Ewok cartoons, the Holiday Special, ANY Kenner SW commercial.....and then AOtC [only cuz i'd have to].
05-24-04, 11:47 AM
#55
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Throw me into the bunch that puts RotJ in the last spot. Now, don't get me wrong.. the Luke, Vader, and Emperor scenes are tops, but the rest of the film is just weak and uninteresting. I seem to recall the first 10-15 minutes being pretty cool too (where Luke rescues Leia and Han?) but it's been a LONG time since I've sat down and watched the originals (due to lack of DVD). The Luke, Vader, and Emperor stuff was really great though, I can remember that clearly.
05-24-04, 11:57 AM
#56
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Personally, I thought they should have pulled the plug after Part V, when Michael Corleone's resurrected body was sent to Jupiter's moon Europa to assassinate Roly Poly, leader of the Mygoombahs who threatened to take over the original Don's turf in Little Italy. Scorcese's mom's complaint to Michael's corpse summarizes the problem with part V well- "They (the Mygoombahs) run us off the sidewalk, then they try to stick their spiny tongues down our throats and lick our livers- we just don't need that kind of trouble!".
Of course, we never once saw a spiny tongue, which really proves how much Coppola sucks it.
Part VI was just absurd, in my book: the whole thing about the nanobots in the extra virgin olive oil and the alien-human hybrids taking over the Vatican- I didn't buy it.
Of course, we never once saw a spiny tongue, which really proves how much Coppola sucks it.
Part VI was just absurd, in my book: the whole thing about the nanobots in the extra virgin olive oil and the alien-human hybrids taking over the Vatican- I didn't buy it.
05-24-04, 01:14 PM
#57
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Originally posted by ckolchak
what qualites about AOTC did you find lacking?
any specific scenes or actions that you felt were out of character or tonally off?
any story elements that you felt were poorly handled?
just curious
what qualites about AOTC did you find lacking?
any specific scenes or actions that you felt were out of character or tonally off?
any story elements that you felt were poorly handled?
just curious
Originally posted by Pants
So you're going to say something that extreme but not follow it up with any explaination?
So you're going to say something that extreme but not follow it up with any explaination?
So...where to begin about AOtC...
Well, taking a cue from the article that Rivero posted [since a LOT of what was said there is on display in AOtC...in SPADES, as a matter of fact]
PAINFUL LACK OF INNOVATION: At the VERY LEAST Lucas introduced a double sided lighsaber for Menace. What do we get here? A lightsaber with a slighly curved hilt. Oh wait...we also got that cool Tron-like solar sail at the end.
MUSIC: I can't confess to being an insider with a definitive knowledge of what's fact and what's fiction, but if what THIS site says is true, John's score was BUTCHERED.
THREEPIO [PHYSICAL COMEDY, WITTY BANTER]: Man, he was chock full of witty one-liners during the battle on Geonosis, wasn't he?
ANAKIN: Shouldn't the actor portaying the future badass of the galaxy far, far away have the slightest trace of the menace that's on display in SW, ESB & ROtJ?
JANGO FETT'S DEATH: So....his death was intentionally supposed to be just as meaningless, ridiculous and quick as Boba's? Yeah, Yeah, Yeah, it sets up a future confrontation between Boba and Mace in the next one, blah, blah, blah..
ANAKIN AND PADME'S RELATIONSHIP: Relationship?
HAYDEN CHRISTENSEN'S "ACTING": At least Carrie "was cool enough to admit that she was zoned out on coke the entire time". Jake Lloyd is DeNiro compared to him.
YODA [YODA'S FIGHT SEQUENCE]: Lame, Lame, Lame [though, mercifully short].
BORING FIGHT SEQUENCES: Let's see....the speeder chase at the beginning, Obi-Wan/Jango's confrontations [which would also fall under the "OBVIOUS MISSED OPPORTUNITIES" category too] and the whole Geonosis melee.
OBVIOUS MISSED OPPORTUNITIES: Not going to bore you with my own fanboy rantings..
GENERALLY DUMB DIALOGUE, UNFORGIVABLE DIALOGUE, HORRIBLE EXPOSITION
And last, but most important...TOO MUCH CGI.
05-24-04, 03:49 PM
#59
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Originally posted by bardevious
Personally, I thought they should have pulled the plug after Part V, when Michael Corleone's resurrected body was sent to Jupiter's moon Europa to assassinate Roly Poly, leader of the Mygoombahs who threatened to take over the original Don's turf in Little Italy. Scorcese's mom's complaint to Michael's corpse summarizes the problem with part V well- "They (the Mygoombahs) run us off the sidewalk, then they try to stick their spiny tongues down our throats and lick our livers- we just don't need that kind of trouble!".
Of course, we never once saw a spiny tongue, which really proves how much Coppola sucks it.
Part VI was just absurd, in my book: the whole thing about the nanobots in the extra virgin olive oil and the alien-human hybrids taking over the Vatican- I didn't buy it.
Personally, I thought they should have pulled the plug after Part V, when Michael Corleone's resurrected body was sent to Jupiter's moon Europa to assassinate Roly Poly, leader of the Mygoombahs who threatened to take over the original Don's turf in Little Italy. Scorcese's mom's complaint to Michael's corpse summarizes the problem with part V well- "They (the Mygoombahs) run us off the sidewalk, then they try to stick their spiny tongues down our throats and lick our livers- we just don't need that kind of trouble!".
Of course, we never once saw a spiny tongue, which really proves how much Coppola sucks it.
Part VI was just absurd, in my book: the whole thing about the nanobots in the extra virgin olive oil and the alien-human hybrids taking over the Vatican- I didn't buy it.
05-24-04, 04:27 PM
#60
Originally posted by kcbrett5
This isn't even remotely funny. It is long, dull and uninteresting. If you are going to make jokes in the future, make them shorter. And more funny.
This isn't even remotely funny. It is long, dull and uninteresting. If you are going to make jokes in the future, make them shorter. And more funny.
I wanted to make a comment on Anakin in AOTC...he didn't need to play the character with a more menacing tone, IMHO, because that is the whole point of the character and his arc. Anakin is a GOOD GUY who gets duped by the dark side as an answer to his problems. He's still basically, for the most part, a good guy in AOTC. Darth Vader "kills" Anakin Skywalker, perhaps much like in Identity (Spoiler alert if you haven't seen Identity) where the guy's multiple personalities "kill" each other off. Perhaps Anakin is just schitzophrenic, and the Darth persona takes over, but he should not play the character as a menacing force until that time comes when Darth wins the battle with his psyche.
05-24-04, 04:50 PM
#61
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Originally posted by Rivero
Sure, Wars mimicked Kurosawa's The Hidden Fortress almost scene for scene, but only socially maladapted film geeks noticed that.
Sure, Wars mimicked Kurosawa's The Hidden Fortress almost scene for scene, but only socially maladapted film geeks noticed that.
05-24-04, 05:47 PM
#62
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Originally posted by Breakfast with Girls
Apparently only socially maladapted film geeks noticed that the person who wrote this obviously never saw The Hidden Fortress and was just parroting whatever he heard from some other Star Wars geek, who heard it from some other Star Wars geek, who heard it from someone who watched the first ten minutes of The Hidden Fortress.
Apparently only socially maladapted film geeks noticed that the person who wrote this obviously never saw The Hidden Fortress and was just parroting whatever he heard from some other Star Wars geek, who heard it from some other Star Wars geek, who heard it from someone who watched the first ten minutes of The Hidden Fortress.
05-24-04, 09:57 PM
#66
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Originally posted by calhoun07
I wanted to make a comment on Anakin in AOTC...he didn't need to play the character with a more menacing tone, IMHO, because that is the whole point of the character and his arc.
I wanted to make a comment on Anakin in AOTC...he didn't need to play the character with a more menacing tone, IMHO, because that is the whole point of the character and his arc.
05-24-04, 11:16 PM
#67
DVD Talk Limited Edition
The thing that gets me is, Christensen is actually a pretty good actor -- I thought he was great in "My Life As A House" or whatever that was called, and he was very good too in "Shattered Glass." Must be the Luca$ effect or something.
05-25-04, 05:25 AM
#69
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Originally posted by PixyJunket
It was part of your 50 Reasons post.
Did you even read it or just cut-n-paste?
It was part of your 50 Reasons post.
Did you even read it or just cut-n-paste?
Last edited by Rivero; 05-25-04 at 07:36 AM.
05-25-04, 05:40 AM
#70
Banned
Here's the rest of the article for levity...
10 Reasons why Return of the Jedi doesn't totally suck:
1. LUKE'S GANGPLANK WALK: The suspense leading up to Luke's jump-off and bounce-back on the skiff still gets us biting our nails, and the first seven or eight seconds of the ensuing battle are actually pretty exciting. Too bad the rest of the melee deteriorates into slapstick.
2. THE EMPEROR'S ARRIVAL AT THE DEATH STAR: One of the best examples of the power and importance of the Emperor is the hundreds of TIE fighters ceremoniously swarming like bees around the docking bay that receives him. The following interior shot is backed by the trilogy's loudest, scariest, and best use of the "Imperial March" theme.
3. THE SPEEDER BIKE CHASE: The only time the forests of Endor don't look boring is during the speeder bike chase -- primarily because most of us have never seen trees zipping by our heads at 200 mph.
4. THE EMPEROR: It was wise to cast human Ian McDiarmid, and not another damn Muppet, as the Emperor. He exudes pure, seductive evil, and the scenes with him are the best in the film. A couple are even among the best in the trilogy.
5. WEDGE'S PROMOTION: Wedge Antilles would have been number one on our list of side characters, but he appears in all three films, so we consider him one of the main bunch. In Jedi he's deservedly been promoted to Red Leader and gets to fire the decisive shot that leads to the second Death Star's explosion. Good shooting, Wedge!
6. THE AT-STS: The scout walkers may blow up too easily and resemble rampaging chickens, but they're still wonderfully designed and are animated inside a complex environment more or less flawlessly. If only they'd stepped on a few more Ewoks (Have we mentioned we hate Ewoks?).
7. THE FINAL SPACE BATTLE: No space combat before or since has taken such consistent advantage of all three axes of movement. The scenes are exceptionally well choreographed, and it's always clear what's going on -- compare Jedi's battle to the confusing mess of planes and spaceships that zip around aimlessly in the final scenes of ID4.
8. OUTRUNNING THE DEATH STAR EXPLOSION: Setting aside the fact that Lando really should have died, the Falcon outrunning the explosive wave is always impressive. Nowadays, every action film made seems to have a shot like this. Problem is, movies like The Long Kiss Goodnight expect us to believe that not only spaceships but people on foot can outrun explosions. Yeah, right.
9. THE AT-AT ON ENDOR: Seeing an AT-AT emerge from the forests of Endor at night adds a welcome dark and moody touch to the film. When it delivers Luke to Vader, Jedi almost feels like Empire for a few wonderful seconds.
10. VADER'S SKELETON: If you have a laser disc player or a good enough videotape, you can pause and see Vader's insides lit up by lightning as he hoists the Emperor above his head. Someone at Lucasfilm took the time to make those fleeting shots count, designing a skeleton for the Dark Lord that is mostly human but partially bionic. Little things do, indeed, mean a lot.
10 Reasons why Return of the Jedi doesn't totally suck:
1. LUKE'S GANGPLANK WALK: The suspense leading up to Luke's jump-off and bounce-back on the skiff still gets us biting our nails, and the first seven or eight seconds of the ensuing battle are actually pretty exciting. Too bad the rest of the melee deteriorates into slapstick.
2. THE EMPEROR'S ARRIVAL AT THE DEATH STAR: One of the best examples of the power and importance of the Emperor is the hundreds of TIE fighters ceremoniously swarming like bees around the docking bay that receives him. The following interior shot is backed by the trilogy's loudest, scariest, and best use of the "Imperial March" theme.
3. THE SPEEDER BIKE CHASE: The only time the forests of Endor don't look boring is during the speeder bike chase -- primarily because most of us have never seen trees zipping by our heads at 200 mph.
4. THE EMPEROR: It was wise to cast human Ian McDiarmid, and not another damn Muppet, as the Emperor. He exudes pure, seductive evil, and the scenes with him are the best in the film. A couple are even among the best in the trilogy.
5. WEDGE'S PROMOTION: Wedge Antilles would have been number one on our list of side characters, but he appears in all three films, so we consider him one of the main bunch. In Jedi he's deservedly been promoted to Red Leader and gets to fire the decisive shot that leads to the second Death Star's explosion. Good shooting, Wedge!
6. THE AT-STS: The scout walkers may blow up too easily and resemble rampaging chickens, but they're still wonderfully designed and are animated inside a complex environment more or less flawlessly. If only they'd stepped on a few more Ewoks (Have we mentioned we hate Ewoks?).
7. THE FINAL SPACE BATTLE: No space combat before or since has taken such consistent advantage of all three axes of movement. The scenes are exceptionally well choreographed, and it's always clear what's going on -- compare Jedi's battle to the confusing mess of planes and spaceships that zip around aimlessly in the final scenes of ID4.
8. OUTRUNNING THE DEATH STAR EXPLOSION: Setting aside the fact that Lando really should have died, the Falcon outrunning the explosive wave is always impressive. Nowadays, every action film made seems to have a shot like this. Problem is, movies like The Long Kiss Goodnight expect us to believe that not only spaceships but people on foot can outrun explosions. Yeah, right.
9. THE AT-AT ON ENDOR: Seeing an AT-AT emerge from the forests of Endor at night adds a welcome dark and moody touch to the film. When it delivers Luke to Vader, Jedi almost feels like Empire for a few wonderful seconds.
10. VADER'S SKELETON: If you have a laser disc player or a good enough videotape, you can pause and see Vader's insides lit up by lightning as he hoists the Emperor above his head. Someone at Lucasfilm took the time to make those fleeting shots count, designing a skeleton for the Dark Lord that is mostly human but partially bionic. Little things do, indeed, mean a lot.
05-25-04, 10:47 AM
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Originally posted by calhoun07
And early on in page one where it's still releavant. This is more like an example of the rest of us laughing at the punch line and this guy comes in twelve days later and tries to add to the joke we are already all over.
I wanted to make a comment on Anakin in AOTC...he didn't need to play the character with a more menacing tone, IMHO, because that is the whole point of the character and his arc. Anakin is a GOOD GUY who gets duped by the dark side as an answer to his problems. He's still basically, for the most part, a good guy in AOTC. Darth Vader "kills" Anakin Skywalker, perhaps much like in Identity (Spoiler alert if you haven't seen Identity) where the guy's multiple personalities "kill" each other off. Perhaps Anakin is just schitzophrenic, and the Darth persona takes over, but he should not play the character as a menacing force until that time comes when Darth wins the battle with his psyche.
And early on in page one where it's still releavant. This is more like an example of the rest of us laughing at the punch line and this guy comes in twelve days later and tries to add to the joke we are already all over.
I wanted to make a comment on Anakin in AOTC...he didn't need to play the character with a more menacing tone, IMHO, because that is the whole point of the character and his arc. Anakin is a GOOD GUY who gets duped by the dark side as an answer to his problems. He's still basically, for the most part, a good guy in AOTC. Darth Vader "kills" Anakin Skywalker, perhaps much like in Identity (Spoiler alert if you haven't seen Identity) where the guy's multiple personalities "kill" each other off. Perhaps Anakin is just schitzophrenic, and the Darth persona takes over, but he should not play the character as a menacing force until that time comes when Darth wins the battle with his psyche.
Ouch! OWNED!
05-25-04, 10:52 AM
#72
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Originally posted by kcbrett5
This isn't even remotely funny. It is long, dull and uninteresting. If you are going to make jokes in the future, make them shorter. And more funny.
This isn't even remotely funny. It is long, dull and uninteresting. If you are going to make jokes in the future, make them shorter. And more funny.
Jeers from the rafters.
Sorry, I know how seriously fanboys take their Star Wars discussions. In the future I'll be more discrete.
05-30-04, 11:47 AM
#73
DVD Talk Limited Edition
Originally posted by Breakfast with Girls
quote:
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Originally posted by Rivero
Sure, Wars mimicked Kurosawa's The Hidden Fortress almost scene for scene, but only socially maladapted film geeks noticed that.
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Apparently only socially maladapted film geeks noticed that the person who wrote this obviously never saw The Hidden Fortress and was just parroting whatever he heard from some other Star Wars geek, who heard it from some other Star Wars geek, who heard it from someone who watched the first ten minutes of The Hidden Fortress.
quote:
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Originally posted by Rivero
Sure, Wars mimicked Kurosawa's The Hidden Fortress almost scene for scene, but only socially maladapted film geeks noticed that.
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Apparently only socially maladapted film geeks noticed that the person who wrote this obviously never saw The Hidden Fortress and was just parroting whatever he heard from some other Star Wars geek, who heard it from some other Star Wars geek, who heard it from someone who watched the first ten minutes of The Hidden Fortress.
06-20-04, 05:43 AM
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How cool would it have been if Vader didn't die in the Death Star? Luke and Vader escapee in time before its explosion and then at the end of the movie Luke walks into the Ewok celebration. He hugs Leia and Han just like in the original ending, but then WALKS IN VADER!
Id want to see how Vader celebrates.
Id want to see how Vader celebrates.
Last edited by Lara Means; 06-20-04 at 05:51 AM.