'Troy' Review
#1
DVD Talk Ultimate Edition
Thread Starter
'Troy' Review
http://my.aol.com/news/news_story.ps...20010002730403
Its a shame they had to omit the Gods influences on the characters.
LOS ANGELES (Hollywood Reporter) - "Troy," a tale of heroism and ignominious defeat, unfolds on a grand scale with an armada of 1,000 ships, vast armies, huge egos and volcanic passions. At least that's the movie's design.
As executed by director Wolfgang Petersen, who should have the right background for films about war and men under stress, "Troy" is a protracted and uninvolving affair in which men battle over issues that audiences may struggle to find compelling, and no central figure emerges to take command of the film.
Clearly, Warner Bros. backed this expensive movie -- reportedly as costly as $175 million -- in the hope of throwing a "Gladiator"-like toga party at the box office. Casting blond and newly buffed Brad Pitt as sullen Greek hero Achilles certainly boosts its chances worldwide, but the battles tend to look like those body pileups in rugby matches, and the drama remains stubbornly unfocused and remote. Warners may also have a tough job selling male audiences conditioned by video-game combat on a movie where soldiers beat on one another with primitive Bronze Age weapons.
"Troy" is "inspired" by "The Iliad," Homer's epic poem about the Greek siege of Troy. The filmmakers chose that word carefully. Not only does much of their story derive from ancient literary sources other than Homer and the script often take extreme liberties with Greek mythology, but Petersen and writer David Benioff jettison Zeus and the whole Olympian cosmos. Yes, this version of "The Iliad" is godless.
Admittedly, it's virtually impossible to simulate onscreen the wildly dysfunctional family of self-centered immortals that compose Greek polytheism. But to remove the gods from what is, after all, a Greek myth is to gut your story. By playing down the divine, you lose the story's sense of fate, destiny and tragedy.
These people believe in their gods. When a hero fights "like a god," many genuinely wonder if he might not be born of a god and therefore undefeatable. And a leader who heeds seers and omens looks foolish rather than wise, as he does in Homer. This is a key element of the ancients' psychology, and it turns up missing here.
Instead, you have Hollywood god Pitt preening before the camera as long-haired Achilles, who fights for no one but himself and the future glory of his name. His opposite number and defender of Troy is Eric Bana's Hector -- here, as in Homer, the tale's most sympathetic figure. But the film domesticates him too much. While there is nothing wrong with viewing Hector as a man of family and honor, he spends too much time indoors. Bana is not a particularly athletic actor, so his fighting looks staged. Nor does the script ever allow him to flush with anger or take charge of his own destiny.
The legendary war circa 1200 B.C. ignites, of course, when Paris (a much too pretty Orlando Bloom), Prince of Troy and Hector's younger brother, steals away Helen (Diane Kruger), the much younger wife of Menelaus (Brendan Gleeson), the brutish King of Sparta. Menelaus' wily brother, Agamemnon (Brian Cox), King of the Mycenaeans, unites the tribes of Greece to attack Troy not so much to expunge family dishonor as to bring into his empire the previously unsacked citadel that is Troy. Inside that walled city, aging King Priam (Peter O'Toole) counts on its massive walls, his son Hector and the god Apollo -- oops, never mind about Apollo -- to protect his people.
Petersen's big sequences -- the computer-generated armada, the massive battles between surging armies and the trickery of the Trojan horse (borrowed from "The Aeneid") -- are impressive in long shots but lack power and terror in their details. When the screen clears for individual matchups, things improve, but this kind of hand-to-hand combat is heavy going and brutal rather than nimble and exciting.
The film's more intimate scenes between generals in conflict or families in peril bog down with strained, even corny dialogue and static action. When Paris slips into Helen's bedroom as her husband revels downstairs and she pouts, "Last night was a mistake," the film veers off course into bedroom comedy. When Agamemnon and Menelaus rage against their generals or the world, you sense their thuggery but never their cunning.
The actors give robust performances, but Benioff's characters lack complexity. A few, such as Sean Bean's Odysseus and O'Toole's magisterial king, manage to suggest people with balance in their lives and a tinge of self-doubt. The rest, like today's politicos, stay stridently "on message," never deviating from their elemental selves and without much growth or inner conflict.
Pitt's Achilles is almost amusingly self-involved. He is mentally writing the Legend of Achilles even as he performs heroic deeds. Indeed, he confronts Hector on the first day while storming the beach but fails to engage him in battle. "It's too early to kill princes," he haughtily declares.
There is a good scene between O'Toole and Pitt late in the movie, and the look on O'Toole's face as he watches his city burn is simply fine acting. But mostly the film lacks memorable scenes or even memorable moments.
Nigel Phelps' art design is all over the place. While no one knows what Troy looked like, the archeology here is Old Hollywood. Troy is vaguely pre-Islam Middle Eastern, with exteriors reminiscent of D.W. Griffith's Babylon sequence in "Intolerance" and interiors Cecil B. DeMille would have loved. The fire-lit banquet hall in Sparta looks medieval, but the costumes read Roman.
James Horner's music has the requisite sweep and majesty for an epic, and Roger Pratt's cinematography, while relying too much on helicopter shots, helps bring the ancient world to life.
A Radiant production in association with Plan B.
Cast: Achilles: Brad Pitt; Hector: Eric Bana; Paris: Orlando Bloom; Helen: Diane Kruger; Agamemnon: Brian Cox; Odysseus: Sean Bean; Menelaus: Brendan Gleeson; Priam: Peter O'Toole; Briseis: Rose Byrne; Andromache: Saffron Burrows; Thetis: Julie Christie.
Director: Wolfgang Petersen; Screenwriter: David Benioff; Inspired by "The Iliad" by: Homer; Producers: Wolfgang Petersen, Diana Rathbun, Colin Wilson; Director of photography: Roger Pratt; Production designer: Nigel Phelps; Music: James Horner; Co-producer: Winston Azzopardi; Costume designer: Bob Ringwood; Editor: Peter Honess.
Reuters/Hollywood Reporter
As executed by director Wolfgang Petersen, who should have the right background for films about war and men under stress, "Troy" is a protracted and uninvolving affair in which men battle over issues that audiences may struggle to find compelling, and no central figure emerges to take command of the film.
Clearly, Warner Bros. backed this expensive movie -- reportedly as costly as $175 million -- in the hope of throwing a "Gladiator"-like toga party at the box office. Casting blond and newly buffed Brad Pitt as sullen Greek hero Achilles certainly boosts its chances worldwide, but the battles tend to look like those body pileups in rugby matches, and the drama remains stubbornly unfocused and remote. Warners may also have a tough job selling male audiences conditioned by video-game combat on a movie where soldiers beat on one another with primitive Bronze Age weapons.
"Troy" is "inspired" by "The Iliad," Homer's epic poem about the Greek siege of Troy. The filmmakers chose that word carefully. Not only does much of their story derive from ancient literary sources other than Homer and the script often take extreme liberties with Greek mythology, but Petersen and writer David Benioff jettison Zeus and the whole Olympian cosmos. Yes, this version of "The Iliad" is godless.
Admittedly, it's virtually impossible to simulate onscreen the wildly dysfunctional family of self-centered immortals that compose Greek polytheism. But to remove the gods from what is, after all, a Greek myth is to gut your story. By playing down the divine, you lose the story's sense of fate, destiny and tragedy.
These people believe in their gods. When a hero fights "like a god," many genuinely wonder if he might not be born of a god and therefore undefeatable. And a leader who heeds seers and omens looks foolish rather than wise, as he does in Homer. This is a key element of the ancients' psychology, and it turns up missing here.
Instead, you have Hollywood god Pitt preening before the camera as long-haired Achilles, who fights for no one but himself and the future glory of his name. His opposite number and defender of Troy is Eric Bana's Hector -- here, as in Homer, the tale's most sympathetic figure. But the film domesticates him too much. While there is nothing wrong with viewing Hector as a man of family and honor, he spends too much time indoors. Bana is not a particularly athletic actor, so his fighting looks staged. Nor does the script ever allow him to flush with anger or take charge of his own destiny.
The legendary war circa 1200 B.C. ignites, of course, when Paris (a much too pretty Orlando Bloom), Prince of Troy and Hector's younger brother, steals away Helen (Diane Kruger), the much younger wife of Menelaus (Brendan Gleeson), the brutish King of Sparta. Menelaus' wily brother, Agamemnon (Brian Cox), King of the Mycenaeans, unites the tribes of Greece to attack Troy not so much to expunge family dishonor as to bring into his empire the previously unsacked citadel that is Troy. Inside that walled city, aging King Priam (Peter O'Toole) counts on its massive walls, his son Hector and the god Apollo -- oops, never mind about Apollo -- to protect his people.
Petersen's big sequences -- the computer-generated armada, the massive battles between surging armies and the trickery of the Trojan horse (borrowed from "The Aeneid") -- are impressive in long shots but lack power and terror in their details. When the screen clears for individual matchups, things improve, but this kind of hand-to-hand combat is heavy going and brutal rather than nimble and exciting.
The film's more intimate scenes between generals in conflict or families in peril bog down with strained, even corny dialogue and static action. When Paris slips into Helen's bedroom as her husband revels downstairs and she pouts, "Last night was a mistake," the film veers off course into bedroom comedy. When Agamemnon and Menelaus rage against their generals or the world, you sense their thuggery but never their cunning.
The actors give robust performances, but Benioff's characters lack complexity. A few, such as Sean Bean's Odysseus and O'Toole's magisterial king, manage to suggest people with balance in their lives and a tinge of self-doubt. The rest, like today's politicos, stay stridently "on message," never deviating from their elemental selves and without much growth or inner conflict.
Pitt's Achilles is almost amusingly self-involved. He is mentally writing the Legend of Achilles even as he performs heroic deeds. Indeed, he confronts Hector on the first day while storming the beach but fails to engage him in battle. "It's too early to kill princes," he haughtily declares.
There is a good scene between O'Toole and Pitt late in the movie, and the look on O'Toole's face as he watches his city burn is simply fine acting. But mostly the film lacks memorable scenes or even memorable moments.
Nigel Phelps' art design is all over the place. While no one knows what Troy looked like, the archeology here is Old Hollywood. Troy is vaguely pre-Islam Middle Eastern, with exteriors reminiscent of D.W. Griffith's Babylon sequence in "Intolerance" and interiors Cecil B. DeMille would have loved. The fire-lit banquet hall in Sparta looks medieval, but the costumes read Roman.
James Horner's music has the requisite sweep and majesty for an epic, and Roger Pratt's cinematography, while relying too much on helicopter shots, helps bring the ancient world to life.
A Radiant production in association with Plan B.
Cast: Achilles: Brad Pitt; Hector: Eric Bana; Paris: Orlando Bloom; Helen: Diane Kruger; Agamemnon: Brian Cox; Odysseus: Sean Bean; Menelaus: Brendan Gleeson; Priam: Peter O'Toole; Briseis: Rose Byrne; Andromache: Saffron Burrows; Thetis: Julie Christie.
Director: Wolfgang Petersen; Screenwriter: David Benioff; Inspired by "The Iliad" by: Homer; Producers: Wolfgang Petersen, Diana Rathbun, Colin Wilson; Director of photography: Roger Pratt; Production designer: Nigel Phelps; Music: James Horner; Co-producer: Winston Azzopardi; Costume designer: Bob Ringwood; Editor: Peter Honess.
Reuters/Hollywood Reporter
Its a shame they had to omit the Gods influences on the characters.
#3
DVD Talk Ultimate Edition
Thread Starter
Originally posted by PopcornTreeCt
Gladiator didn't have any Gods.
Gladiator didn't have any Gods.
#6
DVD Talk Limited Edition
I understand why they made the change they did....the movie will undoubtedly be packed with characters with strange names as it is....and then you add Gods to the mix, each with their own motivations and interest and power.
If you wanted to do it right you end up with a 6 hour movie.
If you wanted to do it right you end up with a 6 hour movie.
#7
Senior Member
Join Date: Aug 2003
Posts: 578
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Originally posted by PopcornTreeCt
Gladiator didn't have any Gods.
Gladiator didn't have any Gods.
#9
DVD Talk Gold Edition
from the commercials, i can't fathom what it is about this movie that has had people hyped for it for months now.
Brad Pitt (an actor i have liked in other roles) comes off embarassingly amateurish, and not very believable as a commanding figure.
every vibe i feel tells me this movie will be one of the bigger busts of the summer.
Brad Pitt (an actor i have liked in other roles) comes off embarassingly amateurish, and not very believable as a commanding figure.
every vibe i feel tells me this movie will be one of the bigger busts of the summer.
#10
Cool New Member
Join Date: Aug 2002
Posts: 46
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
GLADIATOR didn't have any gods?
Well, maybe not "Gods" as a character. But Gladiator has some very religous themes in it. The whole "you will be with them again" theme and him seeing "heaven" several times during the course of the movie.
Well, maybe not "Gods" as a character. But Gladiator has some very religous themes in it. The whole "you will be with them again" theme and him seeing "heaven" several times during the course of the movie.
#12
Senior Member
Join Date: Jul 2003
Location: Phoenix, AZ
Posts: 410
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Originally posted by Rivero
This movie looks like a gay man's wet dream.
This movie looks like a gay man's wet dream.
Have you guys seen the newest TIME magazine article on Troy? Guess what the first picture is? Pitt, Bana, and Bloom are staring at you in a smoldering way. Those three are what the studio hopes to get its ticket sales from. Well, that, and the sweaty action scenes involving them.
#14
DVD Talk Ultimate Edition
Join Date: Sep 1999
Location: Chicago, IL
Posts: 4,681
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
I watched the Making the Movie for this on MTV yesterday, and IMO it looks absolutely awful. Granted I didn't care for Gladiator either, but the dialogue and SFX sounded/looked laughable.
Brad Pitt is an actor I like, but IMO, he's a completely "modern" actor - I just don't buy him as any character pre-1970s.
Brad Pitt is an actor I like, but IMO, he's a completely "modern" actor - I just don't buy him as any character pre-1970s.
#17
DVD Talk Legend
Now Hulk fighting off the Greeks would be fun...does Eric Bana get angry in this?
#19
DVD Talk Legend
Originally posted by al_bundy
anyone notice the stupid accents they try to fake in the TV spots? Who knew that they had fake english accents in what is now modern day Turkey.
anyone notice the stupid accents they try to fake in the TV spots? Who knew that they had fake english accents in what is now modern day Turkey.
#21
Banned
Originally posted by Dr. DVD
While I am disappointed that they are ignoring the Greek Gods, I find it ridiculous to rag the whole movie because of that fact.
While I am disappointed that they are ignoring the Greek Gods, I find it ridiculous to rag the whole movie because of that fact.
The reviewer rags it for other reasons as well.....the unconvincing acting, the lack of detail in the characterizations and battle scenes, the weak dialogue, miscast actors, etc.
It does look pretty awful......moviegoers will probably eat it up, I am dreading the first post on this forum that declares, "It's just a good old-fasioned popcorn movie.....just turn your brain off and enjoy the awesome battle scenes!!!"
Last edited by Rivero; 05-05-04 at 05:45 PM.
#23
DVD Talk Legend
Originally posted by Rivero
The reviewer rags it for other reasons as well.....the unconvincing acting, the lack of detail in the characterizations and battle scenes, the weak dialogue, miscast actors, etc.
It does look pretty awful......moviegoers will probably eat it up, I am dreading the first post on this forum that declares, "It's just a good old-fasioned popcorn movie.....just turn your brain off and enjoy the awesome battle scenes!!!"
The reviewer rags it for other reasons as well.....the unconvincing acting, the lack of detail in the characterizations and battle scenes, the weak dialogue, miscast actors, etc.
It does look pretty awful......moviegoers will probably eat it up, I am dreading the first post on this forum that declares, "It's just a good old-fasioned popcorn movie.....just turn your brain off and enjoy the awesome battle scenes!!!"
You can count on ol' Jackskeleton to argue the "turn your brain off" bit.
That said, I really do not see how ANY woman, especially one like Helen of Troy in this movie, could be swept off her feet by Orlando Bloom.
#24
DVD Talk Legend
Join Date: Oct 2000
Location: Cincinnati, OH
Posts: 10,059
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Originally posted by Dr. DVD
That said, I really do not see how ANY woman, especially one like Helen of Troy in this movie, could be swept off her feet by Orlando Bloom.
That said, I really do not see how ANY woman, especially one like Helen of Troy in this movie, could be swept off her feet by Orlando Bloom.
I wasn't planning on watching this movie. When they cast Brad Pitt in it, that pretty much turned me off of it. IMO, he hasn't made a good action movie since Fight Club.
#25
Suspended
Hmmmm... Troy already sounds as appetizing as a plate of cold chili spilled in a Tijuana parking lot... Maybe it's time for people to check out the 1955 Robert Wise production of Helen of Troy* to see what a real epic should look like.
*Available on DVD to rent or to own since April 27, 2004.
*Available on DVD to rent or to own since April 27, 2004.