Epic or Not an Epic
03-29-04, 08:21 PM
#1
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Epic or Not an Epic
We all know what films are indisputable Epics. Lawrence of Arabia, Ben Hur, Gone With the Wind, etc are clearly in this pantheon. We all know what is not, Kevin Smith and Woody Allen films as fast examples. But then we get into grey areas, in which I propose the debate is encouraged and I'll update this first post to keep a somewhat continous tally as to whether films are epics or not. The first two I propose, because I have no answer as to whether or not they are epic. They are definately close.
Catch Me If You Can
Amadeus
Thoughts?
EDIT TO ADD THE TALLY: Where we stand right now:
EPIC:
Forrest Gump
Ran
NOT AN EPIC:
Amadeus
Catch Me if You can
Star Trek
IN DISPUTE:
Star Wars
Indiana Jones films
Master and Commander
Catch Me If You Can
Amadeus
Thoughts?
EDIT TO ADD THE TALLY: Where we stand right now:
EPIC:
Forrest Gump
Ran
NOT AN EPIC:
Amadeus
Catch Me if You can
Star Trek
IN DISPUTE:
Star Wars
Indiana Jones films
Master and Commander
Last edited by The Nature Boy; 03-30-04 at 03:04 PM.
03-29-04, 09:01 PM
#3
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They are not epic films.
Wow! That was quick and easy. Close thread?
Well, to me, an epic film has always been a big, sweeping, almost fantastical story following a hero's (or heroic group's) exploits. It's long, tumultuous, full of drama and action.
According to dictionary.com, one defintion for "epic" is "a literary or dramatic composition that resembles an extended narrative poem celebrating heroic feats". I think Amadeus has a grand scale, but is more of a character study. Catch Me If You Can is hardly an epic, no matter what definition you find. Good film, though.
Wow! That was quick and easy. Close thread?
Well, to me, an epic film has always been a big, sweeping, almost fantastical story following a hero's (or heroic group's) exploits. It's long, tumultuous, full of drama and action.
According to dictionary.com, one defintion for "epic" is "a literary or dramatic composition that resembles an extended narrative poem celebrating heroic feats". I think Amadeus has a grand scale, but is more of a character study. Catch Me If You Can is hardly an epic, no matter what definition you find. Good film, though.
03-29-04, 10:42 PM
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I would say yes to Master and Commander being an epic, but emphatic NO's to Last Samurai(close) and Pirates of the Carrebean(not close). Had Last Samurai featured a few Civil War flashbacks of some epic combat, it would have made it, but not now.
Now I'll concede that Catch Me is PROBABLY not an epic, but it does contain real life character's exploits seen in grand scale over time. Some shots in that film are epic, but epic shots do not an epic make.
Amadeus, I'm still trying to figure out. Once again history coming to life, and definately some grand scale. This may warrant another watch tonight, but I"m leaning toward epic right now.
Now I'll concede that Catch Me is PROBABLY not an epic, but it does contain real life character's exploits seen in grand scale over time. Some shots in that film are epic, but epic shots do not an epic make.
Amadeus, I'm still trying to figure out. Once again history coming to life, and definately some grand scale. This may warrant another watch tonight, but I"m leaning toward epic right now.
03-29-04, 10:45 PM
#6
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Master and Commander an epic? No way. Two ships, one battle, does not an epic make.
Amadeus is a fine costume drama, but again...not an epic.
Amadeus is a fine costume drama, but again...not an epic.
Last edited by Groucho; 03-29-04 at 10:49 PM.
03-30-04, 01:01 AM
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what the hell does epic mean?
http://dictionary.reference.com/search?q=epic
personally I think the word "epic" is too subjective, so it's kind of pointless to argue what is and what isn't epic unless you present some rigid criteria for what is and isn't within your opinions
http://dictionary.reference.com/search?q=epic
personally I think the word "epic" is too subjective, so it's kind of pointless to argue what is and what isn't epic unless you present some rigid criteria for what is and isn't within your opinions
Last edited by ArchibaldTuttle; 03-30-04 at 01:06 AM.
03-30-04, 02:11 AM
#12
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Originally posted by ArchibaldTuttle
what the hell does epic mean?
http://dictionary.reference.com/search?q=epic
personally I think the word "epic" is too subjective, so it's kind of pointless to argue what is and what isn't epic unless you present some rigid criteria for what is and isn't within your opinions
what the hell does epic mean?
http://dictionary.reference.com/search?q=epic
personally I think the word "epic" is too subjective, so it's kind of pointless to argue what is and what isn't epic unless you present some rigid criteria for what is and isn't within your opinions
And when since when has internet arguing had a point?
03-30-04, 02:25 AM
#13
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Alrighty, I'll throw some questions out then to help the discussion:
Is an epic defined by a diversity of locations?
Or by the number of characters?
Or by the span of time told through the story?
Or through the scope of violence/action?
Or by the life and death struggle?
Or by the scope of the dramatic material being explored?
Or by anything starring giants?
Is an epic defined by a diversity of locations?
Or by the number of characters?
Or by the span of time told through the story?
Or through the scope of violence/action?
Or by the life and death struggle?
Or by the scope of the dramatic material being explored?
Or by anything starring giants?
03-30-04, 12:42 PM
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I don't believe that any of the films in question are epics. They might be good, but they certainly aren't epic by traditional means. Master and Commander comes the closest, but falls a little short, and I can also see the argument for Star Wars, but I don't think it quite fits it either.
03-30-04, 12:45 PM
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Now why wouldn't Star Wars be an epic? I'm not a fan of the film, really... but the elements are certainly there. Hero's journey. Big, glorious deeds. Grand scope.
03-30-04, 12:45 PM
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Originally posted by bjh_18
I don't believe that any of the films in question are epics. They might be good, but they certainly aren't epic by traditional means. Master and Commander comes the closest, but falls a little short, and I can also see the argument for Star Wars, but I don't think it quite fits it either.
I don't believe that any of the films in question are epics. They might be good, but they certainly aren't epic by traditional means. Master and Commander comes the closest, but falls a little short, and I can also see the argument for Star Wars, but I don't think it quite fits it either.
03-30-04, 12:56 PM
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Originally posted by neiname
Star Wars is not an epic, it is a space opera
Star Wars is not an epic, it is a space opera
03-30-04, 02:52 PM
#23
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Originally posted by Canadian Bacon
Indiana Jones?
Star Trek?
Indiana Jones?
Star Trek?
Raiders of the Lost Ark: Close
Temple of Doom: Closer
Last Crusade: Closest
I just cant pull the trigger thought and call the indy films epics. They have nearly all of the traditional elements you'd associate, but just don't get there for me for some reason I can't put my finger on. But damn damn close!
03-30-04, 04:51 PM
#24
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Star Wars most certainly is epic, and it's a space opera. Saying it's a space opera, not an epic, is crazy. Whether it's a space opera or not is completely irrelevant to whether it's an epic or not.
What DonnanChaOne said is correct. Star Wars has everything required of an epic.
Hero's Journey
Grand scope and scale
Big, Glorious deeds
It certainly fits all of the definitions of the dictionary!
Master and Commander is as well. Forrest Gump blurs the line. Gangs, not really!
Most people just assume epic means scope and scale, and sheer size of the story.
What DonnanChaOne said is correct. Star Wars has everything required of an epic.
Hero's Journey
Grand scope and scale
Big, Glorious deeds
It certainly fits all of the definitions of the dictionary!
Master and Commander is as well. Forrest Gump blurs the line. Gangs, not really!
Most people just assume epic means scope and scale, and sheer size of the story.
