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Surprised by the LACK of Emotion in ROTK

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Surprised by the LACK of Emotion in ROTK

Old 12-18-03, 04:51 AM
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Surprised by the LACK of Emotion in ROTK

After all the talk from Peter Jackson and the crew, was anyone else surprised at the LACK of emotional impact the movie had? I'm usually a sucker for emotional moments (Sam's speech at the end of TTT still chokes me up), but I felt little emotion at the end of ROTK.

Perhaps it is because I have never read the books - I was waiting for these "great sacrifices" to take place, and just about everyone (all the main good guys, at least) come through relatively unscathed. I suppose this is a criticism more of the original work than Peter Jackson's film, since Jackson had a storyline to follow...but still, I left ROTK feeling entertained, but it wasn't the kind of movie I want to rush out and see half a dozen times.

I KNOW I'm in the minority here...but I'm wondering if anyone else feels the same? I guess what I'm really trying to say is that while ROTK was certainly a GOOD movie, I felt it was the weakest of the three films - especially in terms of emotional impact on the filmgoer.
Old 12-18-03, 04:55 AM
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Re: Surprised by the LACK of Emotion in ROTK

Originally posted by Spooky
just about everyone (all the main good guys, at least) come through relatively unscathed.
^^

You have GOT to be kidding me with this line
Old 12-18-03, 05:29 AM
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Re: Re: Surprised by the LACK of Emotion in ROTK

Originally posted by Rivero
^^

You have GOT to be kidding me with this line
While I disagree with ROTK lacking emotion, I can see his point.

Spoiler:
Frodo comes off pretty bad, so much so that he can't lead a normal life. Okay, one scathed main character. Sam gets married. So he gets a plus. Merry and Pippin are...Merry and Pippin. No good or bad there. Aragorn is crowned king, marries his elf-love, who now is mortal, and has a kid. He gets a double plus. I don't think Legolas takes a lick of damage in the entire trilogy, so he gets a perfect. Gimli learns to like elves, so now he's more open minded. Gandalf, Bilbo, Elrond, and Galadriel sail to the Undying Lands, which are apparently better than Middle Earth. So they all get a plus. Faramir and Eowyn share a look. I suppose that's worth noting. Denethor dies, but what the hell, nobody liked him anyway, and we can't really call him a main character. Theoden dies, and that's a minus. Boromir dies, but it happens in Fellowship, and cannot count towards the Return of the King emotional tally. Gollum dies, minus for him. Saruman doesn't die in this cut, but he is powerless. Let's say a minus. Sauron not only dies, but he also loses his tower, a mountain, all of his orcs, and the very landscape of his country, plus a gate. So, really, of all the characters, Sauron fares the worst. Now, it's obvious that the quest for the ring changed everyone involved, but really, other than for Frodo, Boromir, Denethor, Gollum, Saruman, and Sauron, things got better as a result of the whole thing.


That being said, I don't think that the end result detracts from the emotional impact of what is going on at any given moment. Nor do I agree that The Return of the King is bereft of emotion. I still find Fellowship to be the most emotional, but King definitely had me reaching for my hanky several times. With the tally, I was just playing devil's advocate.
Old 12-18-03, 06:14 AM
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1. I disagree.

2. I think it's a personal thing.

I think Jackson has done a great job telling us the story of these already well devoloped characters. I found myself very interested in what happens to these people. I cared about the characters in this movie.
Old 12-18-03, 07:08 AM
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I agree it seemed less emotional than the books in a few places, but thats just because it would take too long to translate on screen
Here are just a few
Theoden/eowyns death omitted eomer, very little emotion

After pelenor film they almost instantly cut to being in the black gate (no emotional buildup and people dont really see what they are doing) Its a suicidal mission and everyone goes knowing they will die

in mordor its way more miserable than it was on screen

Its just hard to translate to screen, it seemed too happy ending probably since people didnt know where frodo was going at the end etc
Reading the book, everyone will agree its not a happy ending and tolkien just wanted to say war never has happy endings, just as good as it can be
Old 12-18-03, 07:11 AM
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Re: Re: Surprised by the LACK of Emotion in ROTK

Originally posted by Rivero
^^

You have GOT to be kidding me with this line
Umm...

Sam = Fine
Merry = Fine
Pippin = Fine
Gandalf = Fine
Aragorn = Fine
Arwen = Fine
Gimli = Fine
Legolas = Fine
Feromir = Fine
Eowyn = Fine

Frodo = Some emotional scarring; injury....but for the most part - fine!

Where's the sacrifice?!
Old 12-18-03, 07:42 AM
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Re: Re: Re: Surprised by the LACK of Emotion in ROTK

Originally posted by Spooky
Umm...

Sam = Fine
Merry = Fine
Pippin = Fine
Gandalf = Fine
Aragorn = Fine
Arwen = Fine
Gimli = Fine
Legolas = Fine
Feromir = Fine
Eowyn = Fine

Frodo = Some emotional scarring; injury....but for the most part - fine!

Where's the sacrifice?!

Old 12-18-03, 07:55 AM
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Re: Re: Re: Surprised by the LACK of Emotion in ROTK

Originally posted by Spooky
Where's the sacrifice?!
The story isn't meant to be a tragedy, I don't think... maybe you were expecting more of a tragedy, and so that's why you were looking for more sacrifice. It's a story about how even the littlest people are able to change the world as long as they keep hope alive and never quit. It's supposed to be uplifting.

Also, I don't think you can completely separate ROTK from the other two movies, especially with regard to emotional arcs and character development. Sam and Frodo's journey in ROTK isn't meant to be looked at by itself... you have to at least KNOW that they came all the way from the Shire. Heck, they barely explain the Ring at all in ROTK... if you had no information about the prior movies, you'd probably be wondering what the fuss was about. "Just throw it in the trash, or the fireplace! Why go all the way to Mount Doom?!" The movie and its characters are meant to be looked at as the completion of a story begun in FOTR.

Maybe the good guys make it through without their lives turning to utter ruin... but their lives are all irrevocably changed.

Frodo - continually tempted by the Ring. The wounds from the Witch King and Shelob never heal, plus the missing finger... he goes off to the Grey Havens and leaves behind his home and, more importantly, his friends... forever. (Okay, Sam joins him later, but that's not in the movie.)

Sam - goes from being afraid to go past the farthest point he's been from the Shire (in FOTR) to fighting off orcs, Gollum, and Shelob, and carrying Frodo up Mount Doom. Can't relate to his people the same way after returning... see the scene when the hobbits are in the bar at the end, almost silent, while everyone else whoops it up around them.

Merry & Pippin - from happy-go-lucky morons to looking in the Palantir, being separated from each other, fighting in a war, getting wounded, and realizing that you can't just sit around and do nothing while the world falls apart. Yes, they're probably still morons, but they went through some significant events. Also can't relate completely to their people the same way after returning.

Gandalf - freaking DIES. Yes, he comes back to life, but he obviously not the same person as before.

Legolas - goes from sheltered dwarf-hating elf to seeing his friends and comrades die for the first time, losing hope at Helm's Deep, regaining it, and allying with a dwarf.

Gimli - elf-hating dwarf to finding his friends all dead in Moria, and having the hots for and allying with elves.

Aragorn - goes from secluded woodland ranger to king of men.

Boromir - tormented by the Ring, and DIES.

Theoden - tormented by Grima Wormtongue, loses who-knows-how-many of his men over the course of all of the battles, and DIES.

Eowyn - the whole "I *heart* Aragorn" thing, becoming a leader for her people, going to battle and getting wounded, and cradling Theoden in her arms as he dies. Add to that her... cousin? or whoever dying in TTT.

Faramir - his obedience or desire to please his father almost costs him his life. All his men die around him in the suicide charge to Osgilioth.

I think solely looking at each character and saying "are they better or worse now?" is drastically oversimplifying it. They've all had ups and downs, and none of them is absolutely better or worse... but they are all changed.
Old 12-18-03, 08:43 AM
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Re: Re: Re: Surprised by the LACK of Emotion in ROTK

Originally posted by Spooky

Sam = Fine
Merry = Fine
Pippin = Fine
Gandalf = Fine
Aragorn = Fine
Arwen = Fine
I don't know what you expected or wanted to see but for me Merry, Pippin and Sam saying goodbye to Frodo and Gandalf forever is the emotional high point of the entire series. Also, if you read the Appendices, the Arwen/Aragorn story has a very sad end as well.
Old 12-18-03, 08:45 AM
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i don't think we watched the same movie
Old 12-18-03, 09:20 AM
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You guys are misunderstanding me...I liked the movie A LOT! But the "hype" (from Peter Jackson and others) was that this movie was going to be an emotional roller-coaster and that tremendous sacrifices would occur and the movie would end with an incredible amount of loss for these characters - the price that they paid for victory. Other than Frodo, the majority of the main characters (at least the ones remaining from the Fellowship) seemed to be better off than they were at the beginning of the FOTR.

Most of the people commenting here seem to have read the books as well...so maybe the blame SHOULD be placed on Jackson for not being able to better portray what these characters had lost due to their adventures...other than Frodo, it certainly isn't up on screen - and if it's implied, Jackson didn't do a very good job of it.

I guess maybe I'm one of the few...but I didn't see many teary-eyed people at the end of MY screening. Hey, happy endings are great...I love happy endings...but that isn't what we were promised, less anyone forget. A more "down" ending with a sense of hope at the end would have proven more powerful than the "everyone's fine, everyone's happy" ending we got here. Heck, even Return of the Jedi had a darker ending than ROTK.
Old 12-18-03, 09:30 AM
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Originally posted by Spooky
I guess maybe I'm one of the few...but I didn't see many teary-eyed people at the end of MY screening........ A more "down" ending with a sense of hope at the end would have proven more powerful than the "everyone's fine, everyone's happy" ending we got here.
I think you saw a different film than everyone else. All three times Ive seen it more than half the theatre was audibly crying by the credits and most of my friends told me the end was "very sad". *shrugs* Dont know what to tell you
Old 12-18-03, 09:32 AM
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i thought Jackson followed the book quite closely through most of ROTK
Old 12-18-03, 10:28 AM
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this is a STOOPAD thread!
Old 12-18-03, 10:41 AM
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Originally posted by QuiGonJosh
this is a STOOPAD thread!
Old 12-18-03, 10:44 AM
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Originally posted by Rivero
I think you saw a different film than everyone else. All three times Ive seen it more than half the theatre was audibly crying by the credits and most of my friends told me the end was "very sad". *shrugs* Dont know what to tell you
Yep, guess me and 300 people saw a different print. But I think this thread does prove that this is going to be one movie you don't DARE be critical of in any way, shape or form.
Old 12-18-03, 10:46 AM
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The only time that tears welled up in my eyes a bit was this one:

Spoiler:
When Aragorn says to the Hobbits: "You bow to no one."


That's about it.
Old 12-18-03, 10:52 AM
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Originally posted by Patman
The only time that tears welled up in my eyes a bit was this one:

Spoiler:
When Aragorn says to the Hobbits: "You bow to no one."


That's about it.
And when Arwen arrived just before.

I probably cried more during the first two than I did during this one.

Last edited by B.A.; 12-18-03 at 10:54 AM.
Old 12-18-03, 11:09 AM
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Originally posted by Spooky
Yep, guess me and 300 people saw a different print. But I think this thread does prove that this is going to be one movie you don't DARE be critical of in any way, shape or form.
so, like the opposite of a Halle Barry thread..........gotcha
Old 12-18-03, 11:35 AM
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I felt it was the weakest of the three films - especially in terms of emotional impact on the filmgoer.
I dunno about you but I had tears pouring down my cheeks at least 10 - 12 different times during the movie
Old 12-18-03, 11:41 AM
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i usually don't cry or get tingles when at the moives but there where a few times i did in this one.

Spoiler:
when Theodan leads the Rohan attack, when Aragorn charges Mordor, when Aragorn threatens the king of the dead, the entire ending from the crowning scene on


those all got to me
Old 12-18-03, 12:19 PM
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I thought it had a ton of emotion, but I guess people react differently to the same movies.

I also blatantly disagree that people came through relatively unscathed. Everyone involved had their lives changed forever, especially Frodo.
Old 12-18-03, 12:29 PM
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since the Scouring of the Shire was left out, you don't see how much Pippen and Merry are changed......they are taller, and very respected especially after the events that followed their return to the Shire in the book. Rohan and Gondor are not joined somewhat due to the events and the Faramir/Eowyn thing, Gandalf's time in middle earth is over, there isn't one person that went through the movies that is unchanged
Old 12-18-03, 12:37 PM
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The movie didn't make me cry but that is not to say I wasn't moved or felt the rush of emotion during many parts of the movie. I thought I would well up with tears during The Grey Havens but I didn't. With repeat viewings though, the films become more of an emotional experience for me than a visceral one.

Spoiler:


Arwen seeing a vision of her future son which makes her change her mind. Much more convincing than if Arwen just decides to go back to Aragorn.

Gandalf coming to the aid of the retreating Gondorian soldiers from Osgiliath. I loved that sweeping camera shot following Shadowfax.

Sam carrying Frodo up Orodruin (Mt. Doom).

Faramir leading the charge back towards Osgiliath while Pippin sings what seems like a lament for Denethor.

Charge of the Rohirrim. The fear and awe in the faces of the Rohan soldiers but the courage they show when they charge the Fields of Pelennor and when they regroup to face the Mumakils.

Eowyn standing her ground in front of the Withking/Fell Beast in order to protect her King and uncle.

King Elessar, Arwen, and the people of Gondor/Rohan bowing before the hobbits.


And I disagree that there wasn't a great sense of loss at the end of the movie. Sure, most of the main characters are still alive but the scars they endured from experiencing war first hand is palpable. Esp. during the scene when the hobbits have come back to The Shire and share a drink. Not just Frodo but Sam, Merry, and Pippin as well feel out of place and ill at ease. For hobbits The Shire is everything and it will never be the same for them.

Last edited by Ian11; 12-18-03 at 12:47 PM.
Old 12-18-03, 12:47 PM
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I think the death of theoden/eowyn hurt, mouth of sauron and build up to black gate will add more in the EE

The mouth of sauron brings the mithril vest and they instantly get scared thinking they got frodo and ring
The "for frodo" and the battle was all revenge, thats why you see the two little ants merry and pipping charging first

Im sure you all could easily spot many parts in the movie that were just cut too fast and some that were in the trailers didnt even make it in

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